Retailer Chat Recap: January 14, 2010

[gv43]

huh?

I disagree with you many customers I bet with HD TV in the past had dual tuner receiver in single mode for PIP like myself or were willing to put up with 2nd HD having access to SD programing only because it was free. Under the current pricing you have be a total moron to use a dual tuner receiver over have 2 211 as it will be the same price and that 2nd tv will no longer be limited to SD but if it was an HD can enjoy full HD picture quality.




Again that goes back to the point currently people with those Dual receivers were watch programing in SD on 2 TV even tho they had 2 HD TV. The only reason they took those receivers over having 4 HD receivers was because it was FREE and some TV on those HD TV was better than no TV or OAT only. And Now Dish took that away and is insisting those customers not only pay "$100 upgrade fee per receiver" but agree to a new 2 year contract. Btw how is Dish subsiding those customers? Lets take 222, Dish charged a $100 upfront lease fee on that box when many people signed up, then lets assume old pricing $7 a month for 24 month added up to $168 so over 2 year dish collects $268 which is more than that box costs dish to make. If the box breaks unless you have service plan which is another $6 per month you have to pay to replace it not dish which already collected the full value for the box anyways.

So not sure how Dish is subsidizing anyone TV honestly this move is pure and simple, greed, Dish knows most customers are not going to complain if they loose a % they don't care as they overall gross profit and gross margin from the customers who do stay will be going up anyways which means they will be more profitable over all as company.

$100 Upgrade? When was this lease fee? The advantage for dual tuners is over. Perhaps when compared to Directv"s choice or choice plus packages it's obvious why people prefer dish's Top 120 or 200. Now that dvr fees, add. outlets and hd programming are basically the same the only thing worth comparing are the 2 packages that pay retailers full commission....Top 120 at $40/month vs choice at $60 or Top 200 at $53 vs choice plus at $65(new prices, right?)....comments anyone.

 

[Stargazer]

I disagree with you many customers I bet with HD TV in the past had dual tuner receiver in single mode for PIP like myself or were willing to put up with 2nd HD having access to SD programing only because it was free. Under the current pricing you have be a total moron to use a dual tuner receiver over have 2 211 as it will be the same price and that 2nd tv will no longer be limited to SD but if it was an HD can enjoy full HD picture quality.




Again that goes back to the point currently people with those Dual receivers were watch programing in SD on 2 TV even tho they had 2 HD TV. The only reason they took those receivers over having 4 HD receivers was because it was FREE and some TV on those HD TV was better than no TV or OAT only. And Now Dish took that away and is insisting those customers not only pay "$100 upgrade fee per receiver" but agree to a new 2 year contract. Btw how is Dish subsiding those customers? Lets take 222, Dish charged a $100 upfront lease fee on that box when many people signed up, then lets assume old pricing $7 a month for 24 month added up to $168 so over 2 year dish collects $268 which is more than that box costs dish to make. If the box breaks unless you have service plan which is another $6 per month you have to pay to replace it not dish which already collected the full value for the box anyways.

So not sure how Dish is subsidizing anyone TV honestly this move is pure and simple, greed, Dish knows most customers are not going to complain if they loose a % they don't care as they overall gross profit and gross margin from the customers who do stay will be going up anyways which means they will be more profitable over all as company.

I have two dual tuner receivers with two tv outputs and use them both in single user mode so this affects me. I was just simply stating what Dish Network may have been thinking about it only affecting most that have 4 or more tv's in their household in most situations if they had the exact receivers on their account that they needed and nothing above and beyond that (dual tv output receivers if they were not using it to connect to a second tv). I agree that a lot of people probably got those dual tuner two tv output receivers since it did not cost anything more for the extra output and that is why I got mine too. With these new fees, that changes everything. I think most people do not have two tv output dual tuner receivers unless they had them hooked up to two tv's.

Of course it is greed and I have said that in a post earlier today but I also think they are tired of subsidizing those that have more than three tv's, they want to get more money out of those people that they think have the money. They figured a scheme to only affect those with those multiple televisions.

 

[dolmar]

$100 Upgrade? When was this lease fee? The advantage for dual tuners is over. Perhaps when compared to Directv"s choice or choice plus packages it's obvious why people prefer dish's Top 120 or 200. Now that dvr fees, add. outlets and hd programming are basically the same the only thing worth comparing are the 2 packages that pay retailers full commission....Top 120 at $40/month vs choice at $60 or Top 200 at $53 vs choice plus at $65(new prices, right?)....comments anyone.

When I signed up back in 08 Dish gave you a " 1 Free HD DVR Upgrade or 1 Free HD Receiver" and up to 2 free SD receivers. You could pay a 1x upgrade fee of $50 to get 211 or $100 to get 222. I choose to pay $100 to get a 222 for PIP. Yeah like 2-3 months after I signed up Dish changed the promo to 1 FREE HD DVR and 1 FREE HD Receiver but I bet when Dish changed it to that promo some customers still took 222 over 211 because it was free or because the installers did not have 211 in stock or took 722 over 612 for the same reason.

Not sure how you can compare Top 120 to Choice and Top 200 to Choice Plus when Choice is more comparable to Top 200 and Choice Plus is more comparable to Top250 if you compare channel line ups as Direct TV does not count music channels in their channel count and Choice Plus includes encore which Top 200 does not. Direct TV programing and Dish Programing on their higher plans have always been under $5 difference, the advantage Dish has always had was in their lower end package and turbo only packages as Direct Tv does not offer anything similar at all. Dish alway charge less upfront lease fee's than Direct TV.

 

[Laddyboy]

The business rules state right now that a customer can only lease 4 tuners/2 receivers and can have up to 6 tuners on one account. That means anything over that would have to be set up as a second account.

So a customer who wants 5 dual tuner receivers would have to have 3 on one account and 2 on another account. At least, as a retailer, thats how I have to set up a customer following Dish's business rules.

Those rules have not been strictly adhered to. There are likely quite a few around the boards here that are over that limit, especially the 6 tuner rule.

 

[///M AZING]

So a customer who wants 5 dual tuner receivers would have to have 3 on one account and 2 on another account. At least, as a retailer, thats how I have to set up a customer following Dish's business rules.

I think dish has looked the other way on some of those and bent the rules.

 

[dolmar]

I have two dual tuner receivers with two tv outputs and use them both in single user mode so this affects me. I was just simply stating what Dish Network may have been thinking about it only affecting most that have 4 or more tv's in their household in most situations if they had the exact receivers on their account that they needed and nothing above and beyond that (dual tv output receivers if they were not using it to connect to a second tv). I agree that a lot of people probably got those dual tuner two tv output receivers since it did not cost anything more for the extra output and that is why I got mine too. With these new fees, that changes everything. I think most people do not have two tv output dual tuner receivers unless they had them hooked up to two tv's.

I disagree with you again. Like you I have 2 dual output boxes each connected to 1TV only and I referred over the last 18 months 14 people to dish everyone also has 2 dual output boxes for one of 2 reason, either the installer did not have any 1 turner boxes with them at the time of install, or like me requested dual tuner for pip because their was no price difference between the 2 boxes if you had them plugged into a phone/internet except for 1 person none of them are using any of the boxes in dual mode. Some paid for upgraded 2nd DVR and took 722 because of the larger HD, ability to record 2 OTA channel which they paid $40 to get that module and they all took the boxes they took based on the fact the price was same except for maybe a 1x charge. If at the time their would have been a difference in price many of them would have gotten different boxes and under new box pricing many of them would never have switched to Dish even as they would have ended up saving nothing at all or paying more now if they took the equipment they have now. Now they are between a rock and a hard place, pay Dish to change receivers to avoid higher hardware fee and re-up their contract for an extra 2 year's, or pay the ETF which in many cases wipes out any savings over switching providers till their current contract is over.

So I think to assume everyone who has dual tuner boxes is using them in dual tv mode is wrong especially considering the 722 has much bigger HD and ability to record 2 OTA channels vs 612 can only record 1 OAT. Dish in some cases gave people 222 over 211 when they were out of stock or people requested 222 because their were free or choose to switch to Dish based on the fact 222 allowed you to watch SD programing on 2nd TV for free or took 222 over 2 211 to avoid paying an extra $7 per month but for the same price would prefer 2 211 as they are only watch SD in 2nd tv which is HD cause it was free which would cost you currently $200 in front fee's to switch over too but new customers could get 1 722 and 2 211 for free currently and more than likely would go that route over using 222 because 2nd out on 222 is SD and 222 never had DVR option turned either.

Still dont understand how Dish is subsidizing anyone TV as Dish is not loosing money giving you a 222 over 211 as the cost to make either is about the same. Once you cancel Dish you still have to give them back the box. And it costs nothing to allow you to use that 2nd tv output on a 222 either, Not like Dish is providing an extra connection or wiring that they maintain or anything. They are not paying the power bill power for that 2nd output, or providing any maintenance on that box over a plain 211 etc.

 

[dont24]

I can't believe how many dual DVR's on their account. Is that really neccessary? And then to complain about how high their bills are. I'm curious if these people have multiple accounts.

Nobody's complaining about their current bill. It's the "next" bill we're complaining about. I want ( and need ) 4 dvrs with my 6 tvs. Right now , Dish has the lowest price. NOT ANYMORE I'm paying ~$145 just for Dish. Plus Comcast Internet and Vonage. Comcast Triple Play is $160 for the 1st 12 months. ( yr 2 = $180, yr 3+ $200 ) That includes "Free HD DVR – no HD access fees or equipment fees." So Charlie doesn't have anyone beat here. 1st HD DVR is free for both. I plan on calling to see what the charges are for additional boxes. Someone without service that wants multiple dvrs, where do you think they'll go? I suspect Comcast, since Dish has lost the edge in hardware fees. At least in my area, no charge for a service call, if it's a problem with their equipment. No the case with Dish. Been a Dish customer for 12yrs. This is the 1st time I've seriously started looking elsewhere for programming.

** Comcast charges $15.95 for each additional hd duo dvr, if you have a bundled package.

 

[Laddyboy]

I can't believe how many dual DVR's on their account. Is that really neccessary? And then to complain about how high their bills are. I'm curious if these people have multiple accounts.

What's hard to understand. The 622/722/722k are the best DVRs available. Period. All others pail in comparison. The 612 can be troublesome, has a smaller HDD, and no PiP. All E* HD DVRs are dual tuner plus one or more OTA tuners, including the 612. The 612 only has a single independent output compared to the others' two independent outputs. You really seem to be hung up on how many receivers people can have. Ever have any customers who are doc or lawyers living in 4500 and 6000 sq. ft. homes with 4 or 5 kids?

 

[JerryGraf]

One Question

why would you get so worked up over a blog report connected with a company announcement to its retailers? Wouldn't it make sense to wait to see the bill?

 

[dont24]

What's hard to understand. The 622/722/722k are the best DVRs available. Period. All others pail in comparison. The 612 can be troublesome, has a smaller HDD, and no PiP. All E* HD DVRs are dual tuner plus one or more OTA tuners, including the 612. The 612 only has a single independent output compared to the others' two independent outputs. You really seem to be hung up on how many receivers people can have. Ever have any customers who are doc or lawyers living in 4500 and 6000 sq. ft. homes with 4 or 5 kids?

That's the sticking point for me. No dual output with Comcast.

 

[ozzie1p]

Alright, sorry guys but I'm confused. I have one 722 hooked to 2 TV's. Are they now going to be charging me for the SD connection to TV2?

 

[riffjim4069]

What's hard to understand. The 622/722/722k are the best DVRs available. Period. All others pail in comparison.

I used to feel that way, but the TivoHD and MoxiHD come close - very close. Additionally, the TivoHD and MoxiHD give me something that Dish Network could not since October 2006....real eye-popping HD (and crystal clear SD for those who still watch it) and much better pricing and programming value, which were once the domain of Dish Network. To me, E* is now an overpriced 2nd-rate service and pale in comparison to certain other prividers.

Even the best 622/722/722k connected to an overcompressed, poorly modulated, bit-starved signal will be nothing more than the Best Crappy HD DVR on the market.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Those rules have not been strictly adhered to. There are likely quite a few around the boards here that are over that limit, especially the 6 tuner rule.

I have 6 receivers (all Dual Tuner) and purchased them all except for the 922 which I got for attending Team Summit.

Lots of us here purchased our equipment.

You will find here at SatelliteGuys that a lot of our members are high end and have 6 recievers, I will admit that many of our members are not your n ormal Dish Network customers. And thats why I think a lot of folks here are upset at the new pricing as they are the ones that will see the highest increase in their bills.

 

[Stargazer]

I disagree with you again. Like you I have 2 dual output boxes each connected to 1TV only and I referred over the last 18 months 14 people to dish everyone also has 2 dual output boxes for one of 2 reason, either the installer did not have any 1 turner boxes with them at the time of install, or like me requested dual tuner for pip because their was no price difference between the 2 boxes if you had them plugged into a phone/internet except for 1 person none of them are using any of the boxes in dual mode. Some paid for upgraded 2nd DVR and took 722 because of the larger HD, ability to record 2 OTA channel which they paid $40 to get that module and they all took the boxes they took based on the fact the price was same except for maybe a 1x charge. If at the time their would have been a difference in price many of them would have gotten different boxes and under new box pricing many of them would never have switched to Dish even as they would have ended up saving nothing at all or paying more now if they took the equipment they have now. Now they are between a rock and a hard place, pay Dish to change receivers to avoid higher hardware fee and re-up their contract for an extra 2 year's, or pay the ETF which in many cases wipes out any savings over switching providers till their current contract is over.

So I think to assume everyone who has dual tuner boxes is using them in dual tv mode is wrong especially considering the 722 has much bigger HD and ability to record 2 OTA channels vs 612 can only record 1 OAT. Dish in some cases gave people 222 over 211 when they were out of stock or people requested 222 because their were free or choose to switch to Dish based on the fact 222 allowed you to watch SD programing on 2nd TV for free or took 222 over 2 211 to avoid paying an extra $7 per month but for the same price would prefer 2 211 as they are only watch SD in 2nd tv which is HD cause it was free which would cost you currently $200 in front fee's to switch over too but new customers could get 1 722 and 2 211 for free currently and more than likely would go that route over using 222 because 2nd out on 222 is SD and 222 never had DVR option turned either.

Still dont understand how Dish is subsidizing anyone TV as Dish is not loosing money giving you a 222 over 211 as the cost to make either is about the same. Once you cancel Dish you still have to give them back the box. And it costs nothing to allow you to use that 2nd tv output on a 222 either, Not like Dish is providing an extra connection or wiring that they maintain or anything. They are not paying the power bill power for that 2nd output, or providing any maintenance on that box over a plain 211 etc.

I didn't say everyone, I said most people, when it came to people using them in dual user mode. I think a lot of people do use their receivers in single user mode but not the majority. I didn't realize that Dish Network was substituting single tuner receivers for dual tuner receivers so much.

A lot of people are going to want two 211's instead of a 222 or two 612's instead of a 722 if they have a second HD TV (although some may wonder about paying an extra $3 to go with two 612's).

Imagine all the people that will want their equipment swapped and having to change the wiring to make it possible.

When I talked about subsidizing, I was talking about those with more than two receivers on their account. It costs money for a third receiver and it costs more for a fourth receiver. Those with four or more rooms will be affected the most (if they do not have receivers in single user mode).

I see what your saying, it costs hardly nothing more to make a 222 over a 211 and that Dish is being greedy for wanting to charge $84 more per year when they probably aint got $84 more in making a 222 than a 211 (or a 322 than a 311).

 

[Laddyboy]

Alright, sorry guys but I'm confused. I have one 722 hooked to 2 TV's. Are they now going to be charging me for the SD connection to TV2?

No. You'll probably see a $1 increase in your basic bill.

 

[Laddyboy]

I have 6 receivers (all Dual Tuner) and purchased them all except for the 922 which I got for attending Team Summit.

Lots of us here purchased our equipment.

You will find here at SatelliteGuys that a lot of our members are high end and have 6 recievers, I will admit that many of our members are not your n ormal Dish Network customers. And thats why I think a lot of folks here are upset at the new pricing as they are the ones that will see the highest increase in their bills.

Before I went HD a couple years ago I had 6 receivers (7 tuners) on my account, all purchased, and E* never once batted an eyelash when I called to activate one.

 

[mike123abc]

The business rules state right now that a customer can only lease 4 tuners/2 receivers and can have up to 6 tuners on one account. That means anything over that would have to be set up as a second account.

So a customer who wants 5 dual tuner receivers would have to have 3 on one account and 2 on another account. At least, as a retailer, thats how I have to set up a customer following Dish's business rules.

The "rule" is 6 boxes per account, not tuners. Each box can have 2 tuners if you wish. You have to buy the extra ones if you go beyond the lease limit. It was a basic 4 tuner lease limit but, if you were a long time customer they would lease you more.

The audit team will show you a lot of love if you have more than 3 boxes not connected to a phone or internet connection.

 

[Bob Haller]

The audit team will show you a lot of love if you have more than 3 boxes not connected to a phone or internet connection.

hey a job growth opportunity at E. Perhaps they should keep the mc keesport center, as a new audit center.

hasnt E just encouraged account stacking since theres no incentive to keep hone lines connected?

 

[mike123abc]

hey a job growth opportunity at E. Perhaps they should keep the mc keesport center, as a new audit center.

hasnt E just encouraged account stacking since theres no incentive to keep hone lines connected?

Maybe the audit department was looking for more work?

 

[Frank Jr.]

I wonder how all this will impact the retailers like The DishStore? Many folks like to own their equipment. From what I have read there still will be a DVR fee even if you own the box. Doesn't sound good for anybody.