You need to be careful to distinguish between the price to lease a DVR (ViP or otherwise, $10) and the per-account DVR Service Fee ($7). The Duo DVR fee is equal to the sum of a DVR lease and an Additional Receiver Fee. The DVR Service fee stacks on top of that.
Retailer Chat Recap - 1/14/2014
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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That's somewhat true. Dish is charging you an extra $3 because it's a DVR and all the other receivers come out to be $7 per TV. A second 722 is $17 which is $7 for TV1, $7 for TV2 and $3 for the DVR. Dish charges a little more for additional DVR receivers instead of raising the initial DVR fee.
I think of it this way, a 311 receiver does not do anything close to what a Virtual Joey is going to allow me to do but I would still have to pay $7 a month for it. Customers don't seem to complain about paying $7 for that extra receiver. (Actually, customers complain about all fees but you get my point)
You're picking and choosing rationale to make it work with different pricing. The hopper only works with one tv unless you pay for additional hardware, so why is it $12? DVR? Whole home? Those should ostensibly already be covered in the account level fees that are already higher than Dish's standard DVR fee.
Dish isn't using some standardized method for calculating fees, they're charging what they think will allow them to maximize profits. I dislike that the fees are going up, but I understand it. I do, however, think that since the Hopper is immediately assessed a whole home fee, a Joey should come free of monthly charges as part of the base Hopper price. If the hopper user doesn't want/need a Joey, give him a monthly credit for the whole home portion of the fee. Unfortunately, that pricing seems much too logical and reasonable for Dish to adapt. But just imagine what kind sub numbers they could draw if they could advertise two outlets included in the base Hopper price. Like the VIP line, only better because both outputs are now in HD.
As for the virtual Joey, they have no hardware expense associated with it. They could entice people into getting them if there was some sort of price break, say $5/month max for the VJ. Or heck, combine the two ideas and tell all new Hopper clients they get a VJ as part of their Hopper base price. He'll, cross promote with Sony and offer a PS3 or PS4 for new sign ups rather than an iPad.
There are a bunch of possibilities where Dish can put its best foot forward to the consumer while still coming out ahead financially. Their current announced fee structure makes people grumble, why not roll the dice and aim for improved word of mouth?
Some well thought out ideas there, but I'm not sure Dish is looking at this the way we are.
DISH is definitely not looking at it the way he is or I am . At one time they seemed to want to attract new subs with promos like" Free dvr for life" and "Free HD for life." Now it is just make as much money as the market will allow. I am afraid that like the content providers, they are just going to ride this train till it eventually implodes. It is all about the $$$$ now. The customers are just incidental.
I have really seen a change in direction on how Dish wants to attract customers ever since the Hopper came out. Dish now thinks that innovation is key. Their focus is on making a superior product and experience that people will enjoy so much that they are willing to pay for it. They do still have affordable, basic solutions for customers but it's not their focus anymore.
I think it's funny because I can remember when many people on here would complain that Dish was falling behind and was focusing too much on being affordable and wasn't providing all the programming and innovations like DirecTV. I remember people saying things like, "DirecTV goes after the high end customer and that's what makes them more successful. Well, not it seems Dish is trending that way and look what we have, people complaining about prices and how Dish needs to go back to more affordable packages.
I'm not saying either type of person is wrong in their complaints, I just find it humorous. You're going to piss customers off no matter what you do.
Well I think that is my point. At one time they were about Low prices and Innovation at the same time. The FEE less dvrs like the 501/721/921 receivers were at the time, cutting edge and they charged NO DVR fees for having them. Then they moved from that, to DVR FEES PER dvr receiver and did away with all reasons for subbing to AEP.
So now they may make the greatest Dvrs out there now with the hoppers and joeys :virutal/wireless/ and now the super joey, they are making it only affordable to the richer sets of people with a lot of disposable income. Most Average Americans do not have all that disposable income anymore with wage increases being far and few and most just staying flat. That to me is just plain Wrong. After the GREAT RECESSION, I would think that they would want to appeal to the mass amount of their customer base and keep prices as low as they can and stop inventing new FEES , Raising the prices of the FEES and even bringing back long dead fees (hd fee $10.00) . DISH built their company on the lower priced programming leader, a leader in technology and innovation. They have abandoned the lower middle class and lower classes for the higher dollar subs. So in effect they are all about the money now.
I can stand the programming going up ,because I can always drop down to the lower programming packs to avoid them, but the constant increases on additional receiver fees, like the once grandfathered 2nd hopper fee, the dvr fee going up that was grandfathered, this is all on DISH. These fees are created because they are pure profit for DISH. They are charged at the price they want to charge, because they can .
When we all went with the additional hopper because they said it would stay at $7.00 a month- just like the joeys, I knew then we shouldn't trust them. They waited less than 6 months and hiked the price and we screamed on this web board and they relented and now 6 months later they are reneging on that promise and we are all having to pay more. This all leaves a bad taste in most people's mouths. If I had a lot of disposable income to throw away like before the 08 Recession, I wouldn't mind so much ,because I really like the hoppers ,but I don't . And I am sure I am not alone in that sentiment. And why it might be "funny" to you that DISH just can't seem to win in trying to please their customer base between those who want innovation and those who want affordability: Why can't we still have both innovation at affordable prices ? Why does it have to be either ,or?
If this is the path that DISH is taking from now on , I can assure you that they will continue to lose subs or stay at the same 14 million subs or even lower , that they have been at for years now. While you might add one or two richer subs that can afford all your fees and "innovation", they will lose a lot more of the lower priced subs, who will be priced out of the game. IN effect they will start losing total volume of subs ,but they might get their average cost per sub up a month due the higher DISH FEES and the ever increasing cost of programming. Either way it is no way to "grow" your customer base.
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I think dish would rather have fewer high profit subs rather than many more low profit subs..another words. They can make more money with less volume
The same formula A&P has used to destroy their grocery store business
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The same formula A&P has used to destroy their grocery store business
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The one thing I disagree with is you classifying the additional fees as pure profit. Their reported margins don't support this characterization. More likely, the increased fees are helping to shift part of the programming cost increases onto subs that want service to multiple TVs. This allows them to keep prices down for subs that are really price sensitive and only have one TV.
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There are still a lot of subs that split the SD out to multiple TVs. I think Dish is working on luring them to the Hopper system so they can pay for more outlets. Hopper can still be mirrored, but not nearly as easily as the duo DVRs. I think they want to increase the bill of all their customers, but are trying to do it incrementally with upgrades and such. Like the frog that wouldn't jump into boiling water, but if he's in the water and it slowly warms, he boils to death eventually. I guess we will find out what the eventually is for each of us. My family likes our Dish setup the way it is. I love it but the bill is getting ridiculous. With the increase I will be breaking the $140 barrier which I just can't believe. Problem is all of my other bills go up too. So if it comes to a point where we have to choose between a necessity and Dish, we will have to find ways to cut Dish. I fear we are getting dangerously close now.
Another argument could be that Dish understands that most multiple TVs today are HDTVs and they'd like to offer you a way to get HD, easily, on every one of them. Something that the 722s don't allow, easily. Is it gonna cost more? Of course it is, but when you bought that extra HDTV it cost something too. I'd rather see HD on that TV rather then SD.... 
I'd rather see HD on that TV rather then SD....
And I'd rather see an anamorphic widescreen DVD-quality SD picture, rather than a letterboxed 4:3 SD requiring me to zoom my TV in two directions. :rant: I do not wish to upgrade to the Hopper ecosystem because of cost and numerous other reasons.
So you think that the arbitrary way they price their additional receiver prices is fair? I mean $17.00 for a 2nd 622/722, $10.00 for a 2nd 612 or 522,now 12.00 for a second hopper . I mean your are still paying the same price for the 1st hopper as you are the 2nd hopper ,even though they call the first hopper the dvr fee. Why not come up with a more uniform pricing for all receivers and stop with all the different prices? And the fact that at one time it cost only $4.99 a month for a second or third receiver and now it cost anwhere from $10.00 to 17.00 ? I just don't see how this isn't just pure profit for DISH . At one time they had the tv 2 connection fee if you didn't plug your receivers into a phone outlet and that was on each of your receivers . Then there was the dvr fee per dvr receiver. And how do you classify the $10.00 HD fee that was once HD FREE For LIFE? PURE PROFIT and GREED is what it is and you can't tell me it isn't . These fees are made up by DISH and they are charged by DISH ,because they can . PURE & Simple.
You are proving my point. The new fees and ever increasing prices that they are hiked to, will lead to cord shaving by subs who stay with DISH and or simple cord cutting and CHURN. This is now way to grow your business . After two years of commitment for new subs they will simply churn back to Directv or cable and then come back and get new deals all over again. I don't see how this kind of churn and return will help DISH grow at all. Especially if you can become a new sub again after two months of being gone. You could go to cable or ota for a couple of months and then come back and get all the cheaper prices and new technology and then leave again. It just does not seem to encourage any loyalty to long lasting subs at all now. But if you do come back and take the latest new technology , you will also have to take all the new fees that they come up with too. So I guess DISH wants CHURN & RETURN as their new policy.
I think the pricing of their receivers is anything but arbitrary. They determined prices based on receiver capabilities and stuck with them. However, after the introduction of the Hopper, they never revised the pricing structure of the older receivers, and that's why there is no longer any uniformity and clear logic in the pricing. But, better the current state than Dish deciding that the Hopper should cost more than a 722. And, when you compare receiver pricing to the competition (especially cable), Dish's pricing isn't at all out of line.
Quite simply, it is not pure profit because their margins are low for the industry at around $5 per sub per month. If these fees were in fact pure profit, their margins would be much much higher per sub per month. So yes, these fees are a good revenue stream for Dish, but it's not pure profit. They're a way of shifting costs to people that want more outlets and bells and whistles as part of their viewing experience. It lets Dish be competitive in terms of package pricing, which they have decided makes better business sense than having all these costs simply included in programming prices.
As for fairness, I don't think that enters into the equation at all. No one is forcing anyone to sub to Dish, let alone have 4 Hoppers and 3 Joeys (or any random combination that would be hot hard by the pricing changes). I have two hoppers and a Joey and it works great in this household. But if pricing were an issue, I have the option of dripping receivers or packages until pricing was no longer an issue (or I could pay the remainder of my ETF and churn).
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When we get together in the next few weeks, I'll let you play with a Hopper and I'll have plenty of Kool-Aid on hand. :dev
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As much as everyone complains about all these receiver fees you're still going to find that Dish while home solution is the same if not cheaper than the competition.
Every time I bring up cost to Dish they always tell me the same as above.
Every time I bring up cost to Dish they always tell me the same as above.
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