Repointing Dish after 129 Shuts Down

[ethanlerma]

I am seeing a lot of people talking about peaking in the 50's and 60's. How do you peak it to 100, let alone 125? Or is the maximum peak value based off of location, so someone like me just outside Chicago can never get 125?

The main reason you don’t get close to 100 anymore besides satellite aging and location has to do with the modulation scheme used now in contrast to the early days. In the early days it was QPSK (quad or 4 phase) and now it’s all 8PSK (8 phase) modulation. The very simplified explanation here is that at the same transmission power level (at the satellite) the received signal will drop because a more complex modulation scheme will necessitate more error correcting. The flip side is about double the bitrate due to, well, literally double the bits flying down to earth compared to before.

The receivers I can remember off of the top of my head that do MPEG2 QPSK only are most of the legacy models (the 6000 had an optional 8PSK add on for HD), 301, and 501. These were all retired early 2010’s along with QPSK, the receivers being retired now are MPEG2 8PSK/QPSK (311, 322, 625 etc).

 

[Jim5506]

I was under the impression that the reason 100 or even 125 is no longer achieved was because Dish recalibrated the software lowering the results obtained when scanning for satellite signal.

 

[TheKrell]

I was under the impression that the reason 100 or even 125 is no longer achieved was because Dish recalibrated the software lowering the results obtained when scanning for satellite signal.

Huh. I was under the same impression as ethanlerma.

 

[n0qcu]

I was under the impression that the reason 100 or even 125 is no longer achieved was because Dish recalibrated the software lowering the results obtained when scanning for satellite signal.

They did.

The first receivers the scale originally went to 100 but they had too many setups that hit 100 so they updated the scale to 125.
I forgot their reasoning but they eventually recalibrated so the numbers were lower on the scale.

 

[HipKat]

The main reason you don’t get close to 100 anymore besides satellite aging and location has to do with the modulation scheme used now in contrast to the early days. In the early days it was QPSK (quad or 4 phase) and now it’s all 8PSK (8 phase) modulation. The very simplified explanation here is that at the same transmission power level (at the satellite) the received signal will drop because a more complex modulation scheme will necessitate more error correcting. The flip side is about double the bitrate due to, well, literally double the bits flying down to earth compared to before.

The receivers I can remember off of the top of my head that do MPEG2 QPSK only are most of the legacy models (the 6000 had an optional 8PSK add on for HD), 301, and 501. These were all retired early 2010’s along with QPSK, the receivers being retired now are MPEG2 8PSK/QPSK (311, 322, 625 etc).

That is it, spot on! I could go into my meter and change that setting, and Anna dish that showing 55 for signal on the 129, it will show about 112, give or take. Hope use that to mess with new guys in the field actually lol.

 

[ethanlerma]

I was under the impression that the reason 100 or even 125 is no longer achieved was because Dish recalibrated the software lowering the results obtained when scanning for satellite signal.

While that is posible, if they were recalibrating the meter anyway it would of made more sense for it to be a simple 0-100% meter instead to make both technicians and end users not question the fact that you can only get to 50-60’s tops on certain satellites. Instead we have a meter that goes to 125 for no real reason anymore.

 

[dishdude]

They did.

The first receivers the scale originally went to 100 but they had too many setups that hit 100 so they updated the scale to 125.
I forgot their reasoning but they eventually recalibrated so the numbers were lower on the scale.

They launched a higher powered satellite that would have pushed the signal past the original 100, they didn't want to recalibrate the gauge and have subs think they lost signal strength so they made it go to 125.

 

[zippyfrog]

Generally if 129 goes up 110 goes down and vice versa. However the 119 hits in the center of reflector and is not affected by scew. So if 119 is going down as well that means you are adjusting the azimuth or elevation rather than scew. Point the dish using the 119 and get it as high as you can. Once that's set you can adjust the skew to dial in 110 and 129. If you continue to have issues, your reflector may be bent. Also I wouldn't really worry about the 129 as it's going away in a few weeks and there's only a few channels left on it, mainly music. So if you can't get it, it's really not a big deal.

Just to confirm what you are saying - if I first get 119 as high as I can, I can change the skew and 119 won't be impacted? Adjust the elevation and azimuth to get 119 as high as I can and as I am doing that, the skew doesn't matter. Then move to 110 and only adjust the skew to maximize it?

 

[tjboston5676]

Just to confirm what you are saying - if I first get 119 as high as I can, I can change the skew and 119 won't be impacted? Adjust the elevation and azimuth to get 119 as high as I can and as I am doing that, the skew doesn't matter. Then move to 110 and only adjust the skew to maximize it?

Correct.

 

[RTCDude]

Just to confirm what you are saying - if I first get 119 as high as I can, I can change the skew and 119 won't be impacted? Adjust the elevation and azimuth to get 119 as high as I can and as I am doing that, the skew doesn't matter. Then move to 110 and only adjust the skew to maximize it?

I’ve also found this to be the best peaking procedure for multi-sat LNB setups. I’ve also found it convenient to temporarily wrap the 110/129 horns (the outer two) with aluminum foil while peaking 119 just so that you don’t accidentally get 119 through the wrong feedhorn. Then remove the foil when peaking the shew for 110 (and previously 129).

You can sacrifice a little 119 azimuth/elevation to peak a higher 110 if needed. But I’ve only ever found that necessary when the disk is ever so slightly bent and wasn’t being replaced (I had one once that was dropped from two stories by a previous installer)..

 

[zippyfrog]

Thanks for all the feedback on this. Pre-repointing, my ConUS transponders were between 38-44 on 110; 119 was about 50-55; 129 was 45-50. Right now, all my ConUS Transponders on 119 are between 65-71; 110 are between 65-68. The spotbeams that house the Chicago locals are 110 and 119 are in the same range as well. I have to think that 65-71 for all ConUS transponders in 110/119 for the Chicago area is a good reading? I don't see how I could have gotten them any higher. Loved not having to worry about 129.

I had no idea on the skew part that 119 would not be impacted. I tried to for proof of concept, and I changed the skew by 20-30 degrees and 119 changed by 1 point. I put my Dish satellite up in 2009, and have re-peaked a couple of times, but the way I was doing it was all 3 movements at the same time and checking the settings on all 3 satellites. This idea of doing 119 by itself first is revolutionary, then changing the skew to maximize 110 made this the easiest repeaking I have ever done.

 

[all4helpingout]

I am curious...I feel like when I put up my Dish I had to sacrifice some of the signal strength on 110 and 119 in order to get 129 up around 50. Do others who install Dish's for a living have to do something like that - sacrifice some strength on 110/119 to get 129 up? I feel like it was really easy for me to get a strong signal on 110/119 but not 129 and as I was changing the skew on the Dish, 110/119 went down and 129 went up. Has anyone who installs the Dish's experience that? I have a 1000.2 Turbo HD model.

Dish network has turned off 129 as of July 20th 2023
and moved all that programing on to 110.

 

[ralfyguy]

Thanks for all the feedback on this. Pre-repointing, my ConUS transponders were between 38-44 on 110; 119 was about 50-55; 129 was 45-50. Right now, all my ConUS Transponders on 119 are between 65-71; 110 are between 65-68. The spotbeams that house the Chicago locals are 110 and 119 are in the same range as well. I have to think that 65-71 for all ConUS transponders in 110/119 for the Chicago area is a good reading? I don't see how I could have gotten them any higher. Loved not having to worry about 129.

I had no idea on the skew part that 119 would not be impacted. I tried to for proof of concept, and I changed the skew by 20-30 degrees and 119 changed by 1 point. I put my Dish satellite up in 2009, and have re-peaked a couple of times, but the way I was doing it was all 3 movements at the same time and checking the settings on all 3 satellites. This idea of doing 119 by itself first is revolutionary, then changing the skew to maximize 110 made this the easiest repeaking I have ever done.

My 129 used to be around 50-52, now after the shutdown and channels shuffle 119 are 65-71 as well, but 110 is only 60-62. I wonder if I should re-peak. And I still also wonder if a Dish 500 would be better than my 1000.2.

 

[tjboston5676]

My 129 used to be around 50-52, now after the shutdown and channels shuffle 119 are 65-71 as well, but 110 is only 60-62. I wonder if I should re-peak. And I still also wonder if a Dish 500 would be better than my 1000.2.

You wouldn't really get anything more on 119 but since you don't need 129 anymore can probably rotate your skew counter clockwise 2-4 degrees and gain about an extra 5 points on signal, maybe more.

 

[navychop]

Never mind the numbers. Are you getting a good viewable image?

 

[tjboston5676]

Never mind the numbers. Are you getting a good viewable image?

The numbers matter when the weather gets bad.

 

[zippyfrog]

The numbers matter when the weather gets bad.

That is the main reason I re-peaked my Dish. When 110 was in the high 30's, I had weather related signal loss pretty frequently. Since I did the re-peak and got my signal up into the 60's, I have had 3 storms come through. One was a monsoon that dropped 5 inches of rain, so I figured to lose signal there. But the other two rainstorms were very standard rain - previously that type of rain caused the weather related signal loss. So I agree 100% that is when the number matter!

 

[That American Girl]

It all depends where you are. The Dish satellites generally have their focal point in the southeastern US to provide max signal in that area. Why? Because the signal loss from the satellites are affected by humidity causing the southeast to have higher losses and require a higher sat signal for consistant reception.

Similarly in the arid west, a relatively low signal will still provide excellent reception.

Look at some of the satellite footprint maps.
The power being received at the antenna decreases 50 percent for each 3db decrease from the beam center point db. For example, if you are at the db contour 6 db away from the center, you would only receive 25 percent of the power being received at the center point (0.5x0.5)

So every customer is different and will have different maximum peak values at their location compared to other geographic locations.

From the customer's point of view it is not too important excepting in strong storms since reception should be solid way down to a reading of 25-30 on you receiver. The receiver scale is not calibrated in db.

Now THAT is very interesting. I need to re-read up on this.

 

[renegade734]

My d¡sh Farm

d¡sh ... lol ... because the letter "i" is difficult to type

 

[HipKat]

Dish network has turned off 129 as of July 20th 2023
and moved all that programing on to 110.

It didn't all go to the 110 only