Regional sports channels

[dare2be]

Read between the lines on any comments about their "negotations" with Marquee Sports Network. Cubs' President Crane Kenney recently stated that Dish will accept "nothing less than upending the existing regional sports network business model."

Spin. Why do you tend to believe the spin from one side but not the other? THAT'S offensive to my sense of logic. Neither side's spin can be taken at face value.

It could be as simple as Dish wanting to maintain their existing Flex Pack optional sports packages and the RSN's claiming it's an "upheaval of the business model".

 

[ejwhite]

The Cord Cutter News this morning made it sound hopeful that Dish may be willing to start talks again to add RSN back.

DISH Says They Would Love to Do a Deal to Bring FOX Sports Channels Back to Sling TV
This decision halted negotiations at the time, but it seems that DISH is now ready to come back to the table and revisit a deal. There was talk on the call of adding the FOX channels to higher tiers, rather than including them in basic packages. The question now is whether both sides will be able to find a compromise that will benefit each of them, along with DISH and Sling TV subscribers.

 

[Bruce]

The Cord Cutter News this morning made it sound hopeful that Dish may be willing to start talks again to add RSN back.

DISH Says They Would Love to Do a Deal to Bring FOX Sports Channels Back to Sling TV
This decision halted negotiations at the time, but it seems that DISH is now ready to come back to the table and revisit a deal. There was talk on the call of adding the FOX channels to higher tiers, rather than including them in basic packages. The question now is whether both sides will be able to find a compromise that will benefit each of them, along with DISH and Sling TV subscribers.

Just charge a RSN fee to cover the costs like every other Traditional Provider is doing, but if they do they should make it a option, if you do not want it, don’t pay and don’t get the channel.


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[osu1991]

Just charge a RSN fee to cover the costs like every other Traditional Provider is doing, but if they do they should make it a option, if you do not want it, don’t pay and don’t get the channel.


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and thats the problem. the rsn's don't want to let it be optional.

 

[TomD]

I’m probably being optimistic, and I know that finances are involved, but...

Baseball right now can’t afford to have 10% of the fan base cut off from games. The game has taken a big hit with the Astros scandal, and Manfred putting his foot in his mouth pretty much every day.

I would like to think (and I’m being optimistic) that baseball would have some concern about the long term effects of this blackout.

On the flip side, with spring training starting, Dish may have some impetus to get a settlement.

For me personally, I’m looking at potentially getting YouTube TV and Sling. If Dish gets the Regional Networks back I will drop YouTube. Even with having both services I will pay $80 less than I pay Dish...

 

[ChadT41]

Everyone has the genius ideas of what Dish should do and it usually involves only charging those that want the channels with a separate package. Completely ignoring the minimum requirement, that they couldn’t hit prior. Just like HBO. You want a minimum, earn it. Don’t set a minimum high above what is actually desired before the expiration. And before the complaining begins about “they have to be able to pay for their contracts”... that’s at the heart of the issue. They need to learn to not make stupid deals, and if they can not secure a fair price, that is on them. Maybe they have too many RSNs as is then. Gain some leverage, as it would be illegal for them to use their locals as leverage. That’s how Disney gets away with ESPN.

 

[PortlandChris]

RSN model is taking $5 a person across 90% of the company's customers. This is the model that DISH does not like. And if DISH gets a different deal, then competitors are entitled to that deal and the model breaks down.

This is the standstill.

Do an RSN fee on all? Then ALL customers are paying for it, like before. Not everyone watches the RSNs (in fact, most don't) and that is the issue in the first place.

Just charge a RSN fee to cover the costs like every other Traditional Provider is doing, but if they do they should make it a option, if you do not want it, don’t pay and don’t get the channel.


Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys

 

[TomD]

The issues with RSN’s is that not all are created equal. They have different levels of coverage of local teams. So, one area may see $10 in value, another area may not. And, if it was optional, I would cancel as soon as baseball season is over and activate once spring training starts.

 

[zippyfrog]

I was just reading through the transcript of the 4th quarter earnings call, and I don't see how the CordCutters news article would think that Dish would want to get back into the RSN business.

First, for Sling. Warren Schlichting said this when asked if the loss of subscribers on Sling is indicative of what will happen in the future:

" I think there were a lot of different influences in last half of 2019. So, I think extrapolating might be dangerous. We had a price increase. We shifted our channel lineup so that it doesn't include RSNs anymore. So, we like our position. We like our team bundle. We may not be everything to everybody, but we like where we are, and we're taking a disciplined approach. "

He seems to think that there will be no more RSN's added to the packages. Charlie Ergen was asked later on about Sinclair. Here is the question he was proposed:

Your satellite sub losses seemed pretty minimal, given the amount of programming in terms of regional sports networks that you dropped that we continue to calculate your saving over $400 million a year on not having those RSNs. You've lost at most $30 million to $40 million, it looks like of EBITDA, from the sub losses the last couple of quarters. Is there any reason to think that this wasn't a great decision? I mean, it just keeps looking more and more like not in the RSN business, unless they're on a tier. But a lot of flexibility of how you tier them going forward without minimums. Is there any other way to look at this, and does Retrans with Sinclair ultimately change this?

Then Ergen's response was:

"...we still have some people that might want to watch regional sports. But it's a fraction of what it was last August when they came down. So, the programmers have a hard time understanding that once somebody leaves their network, there's no reason to put something back and tax the rest of people because the people who really watch the channel leave us because they have alternatives. So, the math was clear that the kind of offer we had from the Disney folks at the time that our contract was up was not even close to something that made sense for us. A lot of times in business, it's really easy decisions, and some you got to think about. But this was an easy one, and that's where we are today. And obviously, Sinclair now owns it. We've had a great relationship with Sinclair for a long period of time. But whether you can put Humpty Dumpty back together again remains an open question."

It doesn't sound good going forward unless the RSN's are on a tier. And given how desperate Altitude was this past year when Direct, Dish, and Comcast dropped it to get back and Altitude didn't take a higher tier placement, I don't see any of the others doing it.

Here is the full transcript if you want to read it: DISH Network Corp (DISH) Q4 2019 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

 

[Joe h]

Sinclair missed estimates and is now down 15% for the day. Nearly 2/3rds from its 52 week high.

 

[Howard Simmons]

Sinclair missed estimates and is now down 15% for the day. Nearly 2/3rds from its 52 week high.

Everybody's has been down on the stock market the last couple days.

 

[Bruno]

Sinclair needs to decide if something is better than NOTHING. Don't think he will WIN with Charlie. This is not Charley's first rodeo.

 

[zippyfrog]

Today Altitude went after Dish

 

[Tar Heel]

No more regional sports networks on YouTubeTV.

 

[DawgDeputy]

Youtube TV is now dropping the Fox Regional sports channels. Looks like the options are dwindling.

 

[rangers71]

Sinclair better figure this out or they will be left with nothing.

 

[ChadT41]

Doesn’t a Comcast expire in April? That’s a big big hit.

 

[MrMars]

Doesn’t a Comcast expire in April? That’s a big big hit.

I believe June, if Comcast drops them Sinclair is going to be in a lot of trouble and Comcast knows it.

It has been a growing problem for a long time, keep overpaying shelling out big $$$ to teams (ESPN is guilty of this too) then expect everyone to pay for it. RSN fee is up to $8.50 here (that varies per area) but that is getting close to HBO pricing not a basic cable channel pricing. Unfortunately it is going to take a lot of providers to drop them to break the system, they got a way with it so long but cable/DBS are losing customers at a record pace so they cannot keep jacking the price up. I have a feeling we may be headed back to the days of the 90s when RSNs are like HBO, a premium channel. I know here NESN and Sportschannel (now NBC Sports) New England were $10 each or $16 for both. If the RSNs cannot survive on that then well that is their fault for paying ridiculous pricing for sports rights. It is one of the rare businesses you can just over pay for everything and just pass it on to people whatever they like it or not. I think dish realized that the loss of the profits from everyone who left Dish & Sling is much less then the big check they were paying for the RSNs and thus making more money now. Have a feeling the same will hold up for Fubo/YouTubeTV too.

I am a hardcore sports fan myself but do realize that this is getting way out of hand. AT&T did agree to their terms but they have a ton of high priced business/bars that they would most likely lose if they drop the RSNs so for them it makes sense. Either way the system is broke so am curious what ends up happening in all this..

 

[TomD]

Now Youtube TV is in danger of becoming irrelevant...

 

[lparsons21]

Now Youtube TV is in danger of becoming irrelevant...

Not necessarily. While sports fans represent a big chunk of viewers, they are not in the majority. Assuming they can’t come up with a deal, possibly they could shift a bit and make deals with some of those other channels they don’t have now.

RSNs are in trouble, they cost too much and the only way they’ve managed to do as well as they have so far is that the true cost of having them was not exposed and was subsidized by the majority that don’t care about them. Going forward the RSNs will have to figure out how to survive without cable/sat/streamers willing to pony up the money. And in the end we pay for it.