Regional sports channels removed

[pattykay]

I learn to survive on what I enjoy watching most. When Dish/Sling give NBCSN the boot, that’ll be it for me. Nothing personal. I hope it takes a while to get there.

I think Comcast was required to go to arbitration (as one of the conditions required for approval of their acquisition of NBC Universal) rather than pull their channels, any time there is a contract dispute with another carrier such as Dish. I am not sure when that condition expires, or if it already has. I think they found a loophole with the CSN Chicago situation. Technically, they shut down the old channel that Dish already had a contract to carry, and launched a brand-new channel (also called CSN Chicago) to replace it. Dish never reached a contract to carry the new channel.

 

[TheLip]

Jessica ( no disrespect) but that was said when they first took the RSN's off in the first place.

I fail to see the value that the canned responses bring to the board. In fact, I would rather that they do not comment at all since someone is just typing a canned script.

 

[Joe h]

I fail to see the value that the canned responses bring to the board. In fact, I would rather that they do not comment at all since someone is just typing a canned script.

Especially right before the quarterly report confirms dish has zero intentions of making a deal happen. Sinclair, AT&T, and Comcast don’t need dish customers, since the three now have long term deals with every major cable provider. Dish sort of got lucky this year, since covid shortened or disrupted most of the leagues, plus college football is likely not happening. But next year, when half their customers price locks expire, and they’re the only service without sports, good luck I guess.

 

[rvvaquero]

But next year, when half their customers price locks expire, and they’re the only service without sports, good luck I guess.

I was agreeing with you until you said this. I seriously doubt that half of DISH customers are on price lock. I have several friends on DISH, and none of them negotiate for a lower price. They've been paying msrp for years, with 722's or early model Hoppers. Mostly just us geeks on SatGuys know about reduced pricing, except for new customers of whom there aren't many these days.

I do agree that when sports start back up again, maybe in 2022, that DISH may lose some customers over not carrying the RSN's.

 

[Juan]

Actually Dish fixed their cash flow issue by dropping RSNs and not giving customers a rebate for a service no longer provided...almost sounds like a crime when you think of it that way

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[Jim5506]

If you recall, when you signed the papers, it states that programming can be changed at any time, no guarantees that your favorite channel will be there tomorrow. CYA bigtime.

 

[zippyfrog]

In case anyone want to read what I heard on the earning call yesterday, the transcript is available:

DISH Network Corp (DISH) Q2 2020 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

DISH earnings call for the period ending June 30, 2020.

www.fool.com

Paul Orban early on says that overall costs were less with the removal of regional sports, then Charlie talks about cash flow being better than expected once they made the decision to not have regional sports.

 

[Juan]

If you recall, when you signed the papers, it states that programming can be changed at any time, no guarantees that your favorite channel will be there tomorrow. CYA bigtime.

Charging you for a channel you no longer carry and then brag to investors on how dropping RSNs fixed a cashflow issue still should be criminal

 

[rvvaquero]

Is the name "Juan" Russian for "Claude"?

 

[Juan]

Is the name "Juan" Russian for "Claude"?

No but I don't like someone bragging about increasing cashflow by dropping rsn's

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[JerryDowning]

I was planning on dropping Dish until they came to their senses about Chicago sports but I found out that we would lose access to movies that we had recorded over the years so it looks like I will remain subscribed to Dish.

 

[zippyfrog]

I think Comcast was required to go to arbitration (as one of the conditions required for approval of their acquisition of NBC Universal) rather than pull their channels, any time there is a contract dispute with another carrier such as Dish. I am not sure when that condition expires, or if it already has. I think they found a loophole with the CSN Chicago situation. Technically, they shut down the old channel that Dish already had a contract to carry, and launched a brand-new channel (also called CSN Chicago) to replace it. Dish never reached a contract to carry the new channel.

This makes perfect sense and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason. The other thing, at least with NBC Sports Chicago, is I bet viewership has gone down over the past couple of years across the board - not just because they lost the Cubs. When I first got Dish in 2009, then CSN Chicago was the channel that was on most of the time. I didn't rely on ESPN except for a show or two and then the exclusive games. But over the years, as cost-savings moves, they have removed their highlight show that was equivalent to SportsCenter that they would replay overnight. There is no more SportsNet Central, which was like a mini SportsCenter but just Chicago focused. There is no more "Sports Express" or whatever it was called, a 20 minute show on repeat just the Chicago highlights. Sports Talk Live, which is an hour of talking heads debating sports from a Chicago point of view, was just recently canceled. Over the last couple of years there has been a lot more poker shows, replays of games, outdoors programs, and paid programming.

Just checking today's schedule, there are 10 hours of paid programming out of 24 hours. Most weekdays is between 6-8 hours. It used to be 3 hours of paid programming in the 2-5am timeframe; today paid programming goes from 2-noon. It was never like 5 years ago.

I don't know what the FOX RSN's or Altitude has done, but the quality of the NBC Sports Chicago has decreased over the years. And with that, my viewership of it as I watched it less and less outside of the live games. I am guessing others have as well, and that lines up with Charlie's data.

 

[Joe h]

This makes perfect sense and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason. The other thing, at least with NBC Sports Chicago, is I bet viewership has gone down over the past couple of years across the board - not just because they lost the Cubs. When I first got Dish in 2009, then CSN Chicago was the channel that was on most of the time. I didn't rely on ESPN except for a show or two and then the exclusive games. But over the years, as cost-savings moves, they have removed their highlight show that was equivalent to SportsCenter that they would replay overnight. There is no more SportsNet Central, which was like a mini SportsCenter but just Chicago focused. There is no more "Sports Express" or whatever it was called, a 20 minute show on repeat just the Chicago highlights. Sports Talk Live, which is an hour of talking heads debating sports from a Chicago point of view, was just recently canceled. Over the last couple of years there has been a lot more poker shows, replays of games, outdoors programs, and paid programming.

Just checking today's schedule, there are 10 hours of paid programming out of 24 hours. Most weekdays is between 6-8 hours. It used to be 3 hours of paid programming in the 2-5am timeframe; today paid programming goes from 2-noon. It was never like 5 years ago.

I don't know what the FOX RSN's or Altitude has done, but the quality of the NBC Sports Chicago has decreased over the years. And with that, my viewership of it as I watched it less and less outside of the live games. I am guessing others have as well, and that lines up with Charlie's data.

Fox sports north is mostly Poker tournaments, hunting and fishing shows, and various non live niche sports during down times. But north also has the rights to timberwolves, wild, twins, lynx, and loons, along with a lot of the university of Minnesota sports(minus football). Which gives them way more programming than most one or two team rsns out there.

 

[DishSubLA]

It's the same with Sam's Club and Costco; we were actually discussing this at dinner last night. That we have to pay for 2 memberships just because Costco carries stuff we like that Sam's doesn't and vice versa. One idea floated was that this is by design...

Actually, I think it is because Costco began as primarily serving small businesses, which is still a decent part of the Costco business as by my observations at my Costco. Lots of people loading ONE product by the HUNDREDS or more in a truck at my Costco.

Sam's Club was a reaction to the popularity of Costco, but Sam's Club seemed focused on consumers with lots of stuff not nearly as mega-sized as Costco and I thought the food sections was much more consumer sized and ready to eat than Costco's bulk that seemed more appropriate for retailers. Also, I thought Costco was more expensive than Sam's Club because of its small business/retailer customers and higher prices for what I thought was better quality of products sold at Costco.

That's just my opinion from having shopped at both for years before deciding to let my Sam's Club membership lapse and just keep my Costco membership. For me, there was no value in the cost of both memberships when I was visiting Sam's Club less and less. Costco and Sam's Club are serving different segments of that market, and that creates differences between the two.

 

[rvvaquero]

Sam's Club and Costco were both copycats of Price Club, which opened 7 or 8 years before they existed.

 

[pattykay]

Sam's Club and Costco were both copycats of Price Club, which opened 7 or 8 years before they existed.

And let's not forget BJ's, while we are at it. Wait, what was this thread about again?

 

[pgde]

Sam's Club and Costco were both copycats of Price Club, which opened 7 or 8 years before they existed.

Price Club and Costco merged in 1993. See Costco-Price Club merger completed

 

[rvvaquero]

Price Club and Costco merged in 1993. See Costco-Price Club merger completed

I knew that. I was responding to DishSubLA who implied that Costco was the pioneer in this field and Sam's Club copied them. Costco and Sam's Club started at about the same time, both copying Price Club's business model.

 

[Yespage]

And Price Club stole the idea from Steve Allen. Regardless, this isn't getting the RSN's back. I can't imagine Sinclair can afford this. Dish seems to be fine with losing RSNs. Losing 9 million subs money has to hurt Sinclair, unless they make it up with the doops that are paying their ransom.

 

[Juan]

And Price Club stole the idea from Steve Allen. Regardless, this isn't getting the RSN's back. I can't imagine Sinclair can afford this. Dish seems to be fine with losing RSNs. Losing 9 million subs money has to hurt Sinclair, unless they make it up with the doops that are paying their ransom.

They didn't lose 9 million subs money..they kept it for cash flow

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