Random Thoughts

[SandraC]

Steroids edition...

1. Alex Rodriguez has been much more distraction than production since he came to the Yankees. Disappearing in Octobers, Bronson Arroyo, yelling at the pop up, the blonde in Toronto, his wife wearing t-shirts with messages to Yankee Stadium, Madonna, Katie Couric...now this.

2. If you're wondering who else is on steroids, a good place to start looking is anyone with ties to the Bay Area, or south Florida.

3. I wonder if anyone will try to prosecute the person who leaked this? The results were supposed to be sealed.

4. Steroids give you strength, not skill. But they can obvsiously increase your skill by making you stronger.

5. If it can be proven Gene Orza tipped off players as to when they would be tested, HE should be prosecuted.

6. Why didn't the players who aren't on steroids (assuming there are at least one or two), make a stink to the union about their peers gaining an unfair advantage? Or perhaps they did, and the union told them to shut up?

7. Hopefully a guy like Dale Murphy, whose numbers were dwarfed by these criminals, will rise again in stature as a 'clean' player.

8. You have to wonder how many home runs some guys would have hit had they taken steroids back in their day. Jim Rice, Yaz, Mike Schmidt, Willies Mays and McCovey, Hank Aaron, Reggie Jackson, the list goes on and on. What about Mickey Mantle? What if steroids would have helped him extend his career and recover quickly?

9. Hopefully someday they will figure out how to test for HGH (and whatever else cutting edge cheating is going on), and they'll save and test urine samples when the time comes.

10. I don't feel sorry for A-Rod. Not even a little. But the story would hold a little more validity for me if the rest of the 104 names were released.

11. This story will lose some of it's legs once baseball is being played. And the next scandal comes out.

12. A-Rod is just such a jerk, it's easy villify him right now. But rest assured there is a very good chance your favorite player is taking steroids too. He's just not as pompous about it.

13. Nobody beats Rafael Palmeiro in being pompous, though. There is a guy who should remain the the baseball shadows forever. What an embarassment.

14. Whatever happened to baseball players being told not to lift weights, because it will mess up their timing or something? I remember my brothers saying something about that, but they were football players too and lifted.

15. What about the sexual side effects you hear about? Are baseball players OK with that? Are their wives?!?


Sandra

 

[anders5189]

This could be sweet justice. After all those years of people fawning over these cheats, now they are getting what they deserve. I hope none of the juiced players ever get into the HOF. Since Bud Selig and the MLBPA don't have any integrity let these guys get the Pete Rose treatment. I also hope that none of these guys' teams ever honor them after retirement with jersey retirements or other honors. What a disgrace it would be if A-Rod and Clemens were honored with true Yankee legends. I think it's great that Mark McGwire can't show his face in St. Louis anymore.

The ONLY way baseball can purge this sad chapter of its history is if at the end of the day these guys are outed, humiliated and treated like the pariahs they are. They all lived by the code of the ends justify the means. If their fate is an eternity in baseball exile then, maybe, people will wake up and see that the ends don't always justify the means.

 

[SamCdbs]

1 - Liar. Cheat. Criminal. And loser.

2 - Yep. Or the New York Yankees.

3 - The person who leaked this should get the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Order of Canada.

4 - That is the great lie of steroids and the supporters of steroid cheats. Hiting a baseball is difficult, yes. But the true elite skill is hitting it "where they ain't", as Dizzy said. Bonds cheating: HR, HR, HR, HR, HR. Bonds, not cheating: fly out, fly out, fly out, fly out.

5 - Yes. And the government should take over this union, like it did the Teamsters in the 60s.

6 - The eternal mystery to all of us who have to manage in a unionized enviroment. Why do unions cover for the slackers, the petty thieves, the guys who find a quiet corner and go to sleep, etc? Same in baseball as in any factory.

7 - Yep.

8 - Yep. This is the reverse of what these criminals took from us. They stole from us watching honest people try for the records of Ruth and Marris. And they stole from us the ability to compare one era to another.

9 - Yep.

10 - Every one should be read aloud, right before the phrase "banned for life".

11 - ESPN's fault.

12 - Notice how all of the steroid cheats are jerks or weirdos? Cause, or effect?

13 - Liar. Criminal. Cheat.

14 - Weight lifting is worthless to the honest ballplayer.

15 - I hope none of these criminals can perform ever again. Serves them right.

And a couple of bonuses of my own:

- If Selig or any owner knew what was going on, and still campaigned for stadium tax subsidies, they are guilty of fraud. They should be prosecuted and jailed, and the teams sold at public auction to pay the taxpayers/victims back.

- Peter Edward Rose.

 

[Jimbo]

1 - Liar. Cheat. Criminal. And loser.

2 - Yep. Or the New York Yankees.

3 - The person who leaked this should get the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Order of Canada.

4 - That is the great lie of steroids and the supporters of steroid cheats. Hiting a baseball is difficult, yes. But the true elite skill is hitting it "where they ain't", as Dizzy said. Bonds cheating: HR, HR, HR, HR, HR. Bonds, not cheating: fly out, fly out, fly out, fly out.

5 - Yes. And the government should take over this union, like it did the Teamsters in the 60s.

6 - The eternal mystery to all of us who have to manage in a unionized enviroment. Why do unions cover for the slackers, the petty thieves, the guys who find a quiet corner and go to sleep, etc? Same in baseball as in any factory.

7 - Yep.

8 - Yep. This is the reverse of what these criminals took from us. They stole from us watching honest people try for the records of Ruth and Marris. And they stole from us the ability to compare one era to another.

9 - Yep.

10 - Every one should be read aloud, right before the phrase "banned for life".

11 - ESPN's fault.

12 - Notice how all of the steroid cheats are jerks or weirdos? Cause, or effect?

13 - Liar. Criminal. Cheat.

14 - Weight lifting is worthless to the honest ballplayer.

15 - I hope none of these criminals can perform ever again. Serves them right.

And a couple of bonuses of my own:

- If Selig or any owner knew what was going on, and still campaigned for stadium tax subsidies, they are guilty of fraud. They should be prosecuted and jailed, and the teams sold at public auction to pay the taxpayers/victims back.

- Peter Edward Rose.

Wow.
Guess we better get the electric chair out again.
Sounds like your wanting to end everyones life here ....

Ever thought about hearing the players side of things before flipping the switch ?
once again WOW ....
You a very disturbed person.

 

[ehren]

#4= Look at Lenny Dykstra and this is why steroids gives you a small pee pee and yes it "does" enhance your game and skill young lady.

 

[ehren]

Wow.
Guess we better get the electric chair out again.
Sounds like your wanting to end everyones life here ....

Ever thought about hearing the players side of things before flipping the switch ?
once again WOW ....
You a very disturbed person.

The players have no side, they don't deserve more than a Doctor makes.

 

[SabresRule]

Wow.
Guess we better get the electric chair out again.
Sounds like your wanting to end everyones life here ....

Ever thought about hearing the players side of things before flipping the switch ?
once again WOW ....
You a very disturbed person.

I've always thought of Sam as being extremely negative; I wouldn't say disturbed.

 

[salsadancer7]

Steroids edition...

1. Alex Rodriguez has been much more distraction than production since he came to the Yankees. Disappearing in Octobers, Bronson Arroyo, yelling at the pop up, the blonde in Toronto, his wife wearing t-shirts with messages to Yankee Stadium, Madonna, Katie Couric...now this. This is very true, but guess what? The Yankees knew EXACTLY what they were getting into.

2. If you're wondering who else is on steroids, a good place to start looking is anyone with ties to the Bay Area, or south Florida. So if your favorite baseball player wanted to retire somewhere warm and comfortable where there is no state taxes.....he MUST be a cheat too huh??!! What the hell does a location have to do with it??!! Nothing.....

3. I wonder if anyone will try to prosecute the person who leaked this? The results were supposed to be sealed. They should, especially if it was AGREED BY BOTH PARTIES to keep the records sealed.

4. Steroids give you strength, not skill. But they can obvsiously increase your skill by making you stronger. So I guess that SHOULD make pitchers throw harder and more strikes, throw to the cutoff man all the time and execute a perfect bunt every time it is called and hit atleast 30 to 40 points higher.....right?

5. If it can be proven Gene Orza tipped off players as to when they would be tested, HE should be prosecuted. I agree 1000%!! And don't forget Donald Fehr too!

6. Why didn't the players who aren't on steroids (assuming there are at least one or two), make a stink to the union about their peers gaining an unfair advantage? Perhaps they did, and the union told them to shut up.. or they may have followed a similar code the cops follow about not tattle tale on a fellow brother. We will never know until someone breaks ranks and tells the truth....oh wait, if you ADMIT something and tell the truth....your a scumbag too....oopppsss....never mind!

7. Hopefully a guy like Dale Murphy, whose numbers were dwarfed by these criminals, will rise again in stature as a 'clean' player. That would be nice, but how do we now he didn't do greenies in his day....

8. You have to wonder how many home runs some guys would have hit had they taken steroids back in their day. Jim Rice, Yaz, Mike Schmidt, Willies Mays and McCovey, Hank Aaron, Reggie Jackson, the list goes on and on. What about Mickey Mantle? What if steroids would have helped him extend his career and recover quickly? Maybe they WOULD HAVE extended their careers....oh, see my comment above...

9. Hopefully someday they will figure out how to test for HGH (and whatever else cutting edge cheating is going on), and they'll save and test urine samples when the time comes. The HAVE to take a lead from the Olympic committee, they are far more advanced in testing for performance enhancing drugs than anyone else.

10. I don't feel sorry for A-Rod. Not even a little. But the story would hold a little more validity for me if the rest of the 104 names were released. DITTO!

11. This story will lose some of it's legs once baseball is being played. And the next scandal comes out. YEP!

12. A-Rod is just such a jerk, it's easy villify him right now. But rest assured there is a very good chance your favorite player is taking steroids too. He's just not as pompous about it. Very true...and who knows, he might not even live in Florida or California....

13. Nobody beats Rafael Palmeiro in being pompous, though. There is a guy who should remain the the baseball shadows forever. What an embarassment. And knowing him personally, I have to agree......

14. Whatever happened to baseball players being told not to lift weights, because it will mess up their timing or something? I remember my brothers saying something about that, but they were football players too and lifted. My kids have never been encouraged to lift as much as encouraged to try to develope core body strength. Baseball, especially in the last 20 to 25 years has become a year round process of strength and exercise.

15. What about the sexual side effects you hear about? Are baseball players OK with that? Are their wives?!?
This is where people think that baseball players got to the extremes that football players use to when they took steroids. Not the same steroid and not the same dosages.

Sandra

Well...I answered all.....and the bashing will begin in ....5....4....3....2....1......

 

[SamCdbs]

What "side" do the players have? They didn't really do it? Martians made them do it? They were "misquoted"? Its all Nixon's fault? It really wasn't STERoids, in was actually ALtoids?

But, OK. Lets hear their side. Let Orza and every one of these 104 others, today, tell us whatever they wish. No contracts. No lawyers. No "we were promised we could cheat in secret after the strike". Just the truth. Same for Selig, Steinbrenner, and every other owner. If they have a "side" then tell it. Today.

And, if you have read Game Of Shadows, and I have, you understand that among other things, these cheats got their masking agents from dying of AIDS patients, selling their (welfare paid) drugs because they were despirate for money. What exactly is Orza's "side" on that?

What people forget is that in addition to cheating and lying, these people were involved in major drug deals. The jails are chock full of drug dealers.

Oh, and, Peter Edward Rose.

 

[salsadancer7]

What "side" do the players have? They didn't really do it? Martians made them do it? They were "misquoted"? Its all Nixon's fault? It really wasn't STERoids, in was actually ALtoids?

But, OK. Lets hear their side. Let Orza and every one of these 104 others, today, tell us whatever they wish. No contracts. No lawyers. No "we were promised we could cheat in secret after the strike". Just the truth. Same for Selig, Steinbrenner, and every other owner. If they have a "side" then tell it. Today.

And, if you have read Game Of Shadows, and I have, you understand that among other things, these cheats got their masking agents from dying of AIDS patients, selling their (welfare paid) drugs because they were despirate for money. What exactly is Orza's "side" on that?

What people forget is that in addition to cheating and lying, these people were involved in major drug deals. The jails are chock full of drug dealers.

Oh, and, Peter Edward Rose.

I agree that EVERYTHING should come out...ALL the players caught, the involvement of the owners, MLB AND the Players Union. But then you are talking about "in the best interest of baseball"....and THAT would require a commissioner with 'major league' brass balls....which unfortunately, we do NOT have.

Now when it comes to calling them "drug dealers" ...yout are going into a gray area....DRUG USERS? YES! Unless they were trying to sell for a profit and personal gain, they are not drug dealers.

 

[HD MM]

Is this ongoing steroid scandal worse than the 1919 Black Sox scandal? The fact that it's even a question tells you how serious this 'roid issue has become.

 

[salsadancer7]

Is this ongoing steroid scandal worse than the 1919 Black Sox scandal? The fact that it's even a question tells you how serious this 'roid issue has become.

Personally, it will continue being an issue until EVERYTHING comes out. The players names, the players union involvement, the owners involvement and the leagues involve...and not to mention televisions involvement. I would not doubt televisions ratings MUST have skyrocketed after the homers were flying.

 

[HD MM]

Personally, it will continue being an issue until EVERYTHING comes out. The players names, the players union involvement, the owners involvement and the leagues involve...and not to mention televisions involvement. I would not doubt televisions ratings MUST have skyrocketed after the homers were flying.

Yeah, I agree. This is only the beginning to the whole story out there on this subject. I can see Oliver Stone making a pretty decent flick chronically this whole scandal someday.

 

[salsadancer7]

Yeah, I agree. This is only the beginning to the whole story out there on this subject. I can see Oliver Stone making a pretty decent flick chronically this whole scandal someday.

...as the ole saying goes...."just follow the trail of money......"

 

[SabresRule]

I agree that the players SHOULD at least have their side told.

Everyone deserves a chance to explain; jumping to conclusions NEVER works.

I am not going to go the rout of a guy like Sam, who would probably send a player using steroids to death row if he had the chance.

 

[SabresRule]

If Selig or any owner knew what was going on, and still campaigned for stadium tax subsidies, they are guilty of fraud. They should be prosecuted and jailed, and the teams sold at public auction to pay the taxpayers/victims back.

There are plenty of other players who didn't use steroids- why should they suffer for something they didn't use?

Think about that before you send these players up the river.

 

[SabresRule]

Oh, and for Pete Rose- he KNEW that betting on baseball would have a consequence.

If Sam thinks that betting on baseball is not as much of a sin as steroid use, he's wrong.

Rose should hav thought about the consequences of betting on baseball before he did so.

 

[salsadancer7]

Excellent post Sabre!

 

[cosmo_kramer]

If Sam thinks that betting on baseball is not as much of a sin as steroid use, he's wrong.

I disagree. While I’m not condoning gambling, but taken in the context of Rose’s gambling on baseball, it is no where near as bad as the PED scandal is, even at this point. Pete Rose’s sins pale in comparison to what these players have done. He bet on baseball because he had a gambling problem, not because he was involved in rigging games. It hasn’t been proven that he had any influence in determining the outcomes of these games in a negative way that he would benefit from.

Again, I’m not saying what Rose did was right, but he never bet against the Reds, and another sign that he had a problem was the fact that overall he lost more than he won, even with all his “inside information”.

Douglas Coate, an economist at Rutgers University, examined this data to find out if Rose had any advantage given his intimate knowledge of the Reds' players and baseball in general.
It turns out he didn't. Rose lost $4,200 betting on the Reds, $36,000 betting on other NL teams, and $7,000 betting on AL teams. Coate writes:
"Assuming these bets are Rose's, his expertise (24 years as a player, 4 years as a manager, major league leader in games played) was not an advantage when betting on his own team, on other teams in his league that he studied and competed against, or on teams in the other major league."

Was Pete Rose a Good Gambler? - Economics Blog - Zubin Jelveh - Odd Numbers - Portfolio.com

I feel that players on PEDs have done more to affect the results on the field than any gambling scandal has, or probably ever could. The actions of these players has probably affected post-season awards, player salaries, and who knows, maybe even pennant races.

 

[SandraC]

I disagree. While I’m not condoning gambling, but taken in the context of Rose’s gambling on baseball, it is no where near as bad as the PED scandal is, even at this point. Pete Rose’s sins pale in comparison to what these players have done.

There is one thing that can bring a sport to it's knees...when the public thinks games are fixed. Steroids, violence, sex scandals, drugs, and many other things are all bad, but they don't directly affect the integrity of the game the same way game fixing does.

If the public doesn't think a game is on the up and up, that everyone is playing to win, and is being impartially refereed, you don't have a sport anymore. That's exactly what we all love about sports...the uncertainty of it all. The idea that perhaps one day the New York Rangers will actually win a game again.

Players gambling on games threatens the integrity of the games itself. Players taking steroids is bad, wrong, call it whatever you like. But at least the players are still trying to win.


Sandra