Question For The Electronics Gurus

[Lone Gunman]

OK, so I've had my second whiskey sour this afternoon while watching Green Bay clean Washington's clock and I had this brain fart! You know, one of those "what if" moments?? Ennywho, is it possible to wire up TWO reed switches together either in series or parallel??

And who knows where I'm going with this?

 

[primestar31]

You wouldn't want to do it in parallel, but YES, you could do it in series if they are both "normally closed". However if you are talking about doing this with an actuator, you wouldn't want to mount them right next to each other. They would need to be at 180 degrees from each other. I'm pretty sure I've read a thread or two around here where it's been done. I don't remember the outcome, but if it was good, I'm sure it would still be talked about all the time...

 

[Magic Static]

Well in this thread I discuss that idea and use it developing a new sensor for an AJAK
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/311276-10-CM-Perf-on-AJAK-H180/page6
Normally open switches get wired in parallel and normally closed switches in series

 

[harshness]

Reed switches are just relays closed by external magnetic fields. Assuming other magnetic fields don't interfere, they should work as you would expect.

Whether or not the details of your logic will survive sobriety is another issue entirely.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Thanks guys. This is on a Von Weise reed switch with 8 magnets so I'll have to check to see if it's NO or NC and adjust accordingly. Don't know if I can make this work or not, BUT, I'm retired, I drink too much and I got way too much idle time on my hands NOT to try it. (humm, if I only smoked pot, hey) If I can make it work then that 8 count Von Weise on my Unimesh can quickly become a 16 count mover. Remember, I've already modified one of these to 10 counts per rev and I've been using that one on my Winegard dish now for a couple of years.

DAMN, I do love this "high tech" stuff!! FYI, my race car (4.95 @ 142MPH eight mile) has a data logger on it and I log 18 channels on it every pass I make! (insert orgasm here) It doesn't get any better than when a "gear head" "computer nerd" can connect a computer to his race car and see EXACTLY what's going on down track!! If this data logger has taught me nothing else, it's taught me that drivers lie.

BUT, on the other side of the coin, just how quick can those Vbox relays be? I mean I've got some Ku satellites on that 10ft Unimesh now (72W is one) that one number + or - means the difference between TV and zero and I'm receiving stuff on that dish now from 37.4 w to 137w so the tracking can't be that far off.

"Necessity is the mother of invention!" and don't tell me it can't be done!

 

[Magic Static]

I'm waiting for a replacement for my VBox http://titaniumsatellite.com/index.html ASC1 controller This one ramps up and down the speed to enable precise positioning.

 

[primestar31]

I'm waiting for a replacement for my VBox http://titaniumsatellite.com/index.html ASC1 controller This one ramps up and down the speed to enable precise positioning.

I might grab and stash one of those for possible future use depending on the price. It might not be on the market all that long, but let's hope it's a huge hit!...

 

[Lone Gunman]

Ok, so next brain fart! All the Von Weise movers I have (3 working, 2 in pieces) have 3/4 x 10 ACME threads in'em. What that means to you "non mechanical" guys is that that dish mover will travel .1 inch per revolution. 5 turns is .5 inches, etc.

So threaded rod is a dime a dozen and brass nuts are available as well so why not make a new threaded rod with 3/4 x 16 thread, replace the nut in the actuator and increase the counts/accuracy that way?

FYI, 3/4 x 16 is 16 threads to the inch instead of the 10 threads to the inch of the Acme thread.

Yes, it would be slower moving but way more counts with the same reed switch/magnetic wheel.

I just checked and the acme threaded rod for a Von Weise is 28.5" long. 3/4 x 16 threaded rod is available in a standard 36" length so all that needs to be done to that is machine the end down to fit the gear box drive and shorten it up to that 28.5 over all length. I'm pretty sure that a brass nut will be available for that application as well so that "might" not be that much of a problem either.

Damn, I got to stop drinking!!

Who won the game??

PS, Please don't let me get to be like Herman though!!

 

[mmewrench]

Im using a Von Weiss actuator just like yours (except mine still has the plastic acme nut) on a 24 inch polar mount with an old DSR 920 for a dish mover. I have no problem zeroing in on a ku S2 transponder, and the 4dtv is spot on (except in high winds or a dish loaded with snow). It sounds to me like you just want to give that Vbox more counts to lose (rofl). If you want a finer adjustment you might try modifying the polar mount. Move the actuator attachment points further away from the pivot point and you will get the same result (though your limits will be closer together).

 

[Lone Gunman]

Yeah I have considered moving the mounts but that seems to simple a solution.

I've tweaked on this Unimesh dish but every time I do anything to it, it makes it worse. It's a button hook LNBF mount which is part of the problem. I guess I probably should try to do something with that before I go modifying another Von Weise.

It is good to post ideas like this though as it gives us all something to think about.

 

[mmewrench]

Yes I would get rid of that buttonhook asap. My unimesh has the milkstool mount (though the center plate also has a hole for the buttonhook) and its very stable. If you want I can go out and measure the length of those arms for you, as well as the distance from the outer edge of the dish. It would be a simple conversion. There are four arms that mount directly to the scaler.

 

[Pixl]

OK, so I've had my second whiskey sour this afternoon

Lone,

You had better have another whiskey as I have to dis-agree with most of the advice in this thread.
More counts per revolution? For what? Most C band satellite dishes are 4 deg wide at best barely satisfying the 2 deg spacing (per side) of the sats up there. A one degree change in your dish position is almost insignificant. The stock actuators most of us use will give 8-10 counts per degree (avg) Now you take that one degree and cut it into 8 pieces stock accuracy is way more than you need. Put your efforts into getting slop out of your polar mount and actuator attachments.

I'm waiting for a replacement for my VBox http://titaniumsatellite.com/index.html ASC1 controller This one ramps up and down the speed to enable precise positioning.

Unless you like to fiddle with gadgets this box will be no better than your Vbox. The gear ratio is very high in a stock actuator and does not coast more than a few counts ( which is nothing). The custom skew feature it has is also a waste. Skew position is very flat and wide. The most important thing skew does is reject the adj. polarity at 90 deg. to the desired polarity. Anything close to 0 deg. at your true South sat will do just fine across the whole arc. Loose the polar rotor and pick up at least 3DB raw signal with a decent LNBF.

Yes I would get rid of that button hook asap.

The button hook is the best mount out there as it allows you to adjust independently focal distance and scallar position. This is where some fine tweaking can bring extra performance.

Im using a Von Weiss actuator just like yours (except mine still has the plastic acme nut) on a 24 inch polar mount with an old DSR 920 for a dish mover. I have no problem zeroing in on a ku S2 transponder, and the 4dtv is spot on (except in high winds or a dish loaded with snow). It sounds to me like you just want to give that Vbox more counts to lose (rofl). If you want a finer adjustment you might try modifying the polar mount. Move the actuator attachment points further away from the pivot point and you will get the same result (though your limits will be closer together).

Good advice, I'll go with this. Move the attachment points out another 8-10 inches and you will get more accurate, repeatable positioning, not to mention more counts that everybody wants. No fake counts here!

 

[Magic Static]

Wow Pixl, you missed the whole point. We were talking about improving Ku tracking ability on a C-Band dish. As Lone Gunman said, one click is the difference between signal or no signal on a stock actuator setup. I'm working with AJAK HH180s myself. And yes! I love to fiddle with gadgets Like skew control And I might like to put a Corotor Feedhorn on to see how it works. But I like my Dual Orthos. The ASC1 Positioner does not coast at all. The VBox misses counts and requires readjustments frequently. My GBox requires no adjustments. Right now all that is available is a VBox I'm hoping the ASC1 will blow away the others. I've heard good things.

 

[Pixl]

Ok, I'm good.
I hope some of my advice clicks in with some members.
Meanwhile let us know how the new controller plays out for you.
I discourage anyone from using a C band prime focus dish for Ku unless it is your only option of course.
A 1.2m offset dish will out preform most any C band dish with Ku.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Lone,

The stock actuators most of us use will give 8-10 counts per degree (avg) Now you take that one degree and cut it into 8 pieces stock accuracy is way more than you need. Put your efforts into getting slop out of your polar mount and actuator attachments.

All the slop is out. That was one of the first things I did once I got it on a post here at the house.

FYI, 37.4W to 40.5W on this Unimesh dish is only 8 counts and that's very close to 3 degrees separation. That's only 2.6 counts per degree. From 72W to 78W there's 36 counts. Divide that by 6 and you get 6 counts per degree. 133W to 135W it has 20 counts so it's 10 per degree at the West end so it's short of what is "normal" on other dishes.

There's 678 counts from East to West limit on the Unimesh. On my Winegard dish there's 920 for about the same amount of travel but that Von Weise has the 10 magnet wheel in it.

I've got another of those 10 magnet wheels in a spare mover so I've been thinking of putting that in the mover on the Unimesh just to see if it makes a difference. It won't cost me anything to do that and can be switched out in about 20 minutes or less. Sounds like a good project for tomorrow, hey!

Have to remember that this Unimesh was sold around 1985 or so and was a Cband only dish. It only had a light weight 18" Venture mover on it when I got it.

 

[primestar31]

Wow Pixl, you missed the whole point. We were talking about improving Ku tracking ability on a C-Band dish. As Lone Gunman said, one click is the difference between signal or no signal on a stock actuator setup. I'm working with AJAK HH180s myself. And yes! I love to fiddle with gadgets Like skew control And I might like to put a Corotor Feedhorn on to see how it works. But I like my Dual Orthos. The ASC1 Positioner does not coast at all. The VBox misses counts and requires readjustments frequently. My GBox requires no adjustments. Right now all that is available is a VBox I'm hoping the ASC1 will blow away the others. I've heard good things.

See, now I'm using a MicroHd through a Vbox-X and 100 feet of doubled-up sprinkler wire that isn't even shielded, and a 24" Venture ball-screw actuator and a Perfect Ten 10ft dish. No coasting, and NO mis-counts! I don't use it for ku, BUT, I originally tweaked it into the arc using a KU lnb centered with a laser level so it would be dead on the money. My Vbox is perfect even on 87W with the Luken mux that everybody finds so hard to keep locked consistently.

What I think is the most difference? Perhaps it's the fact that I used quad-shield coax exclusively, and all my wiring goes through several coiled pipe runs out to my main dish hub area. So, no noise spikes can affect the sprinkler wire. I have to say to the people that get miscounts, that there's something wrong with your system, you shouldn't just accept it as normal, and you'd be best off to track it down and find out why.

 

[Magic Static]

Oh I know why there's a problem. And I know how I'm going to fix it. The VBox just isn't part of the solution. It's actually a deficiency in the AJAK sensor made more evident by the VBox or the other way around. The two together are not a good fit. I did not experience these issues with the VBox and a VonWeis Actuator. I have designed and built a new sensor for the AJAK. It provides the same number of counts as the original. I sold one to an AJAK owner and he has had no problems with it and a VBox. But I'm after more tracking accuracy than the original sensor and with the increased counts the VBox doesn't keep up. So before I climb up to the dish and pull the AJAK apart I want to have the new positioner so I can finish testing the higher rate sensor.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Put that 10 magnet setup on the Unimesh Von Weise today along with repositioning it in the pivot mount and I do believe I can get on 30W now as I've been on 37.4 and still have 24 counts to go before I hit the East limit. Even with it being this far East I'm still only 13 inches out on the actuator?

East limit to West limit is now 862 counts. Can still get 139W too but I think this will be the limit on this one. I did take some dimensions off this one and I may fabricate some parts to move the pivot points out an inch or so to see how that works. I think I can make all those parts "bolt on" so there won't be any welding involved.

The Winegard dish won't go that far back East without some serious mods to the arm mounts as the inner tube of the actuator will hit the upper dish pivot/declination parts before it would get that far back. That one is limited to 37.4W because of that.

Was a nice day to be outside working on it though.

 

[Magic Static]

The AJAK sensor died The recent parade of weather fronts has demonstrated a failure in the reed switch. I thought something was getting wet and causing the sensor to drop out but not so. It's barometric pressure drops that kill the reed switch not moisture. I've replaced the sensor with one of my own that provides the stock count of 10 counts per degree. The AJAK is rock solid now No more missing counts and adjusting the VBox. I still want to increase the counts and testing will resume when weather permits.