Q. About pole

[Lil Chris]

I finally got my dish up on the pole but realized my pole is about an inch to small for the clamp to properly grip the pole.

Do you think it would be alright to weld a sleeve on the top of the pole to get the proper fit for the clamp to hold better?

I was thinking I could use some liquid steel and/or just weld it, to build the diameter out some. What are your thoughts?

 

[FaT Air]

I'd nix the liquid steel. That's just epoxy with steel "dust". Welding on a sleeve the proper size would be my choice, IF the pole is strong enough for the job.

 

[B.J.]

I finally got my dish up on the pole but realized my pole is about an inch to small for the clamp to properly grip the pole.

Do you think it would be alright to weld a sleeve on the top of the pole to get the proper fit for the clamp to hold better?

I was thinking I could use some liquid steel and/or just weld it, to build the diameter out some. What are your thoughts?

? An INCH too small ??? How big is the pole, and can you describe the "clamp"?
Most 10' dishes come with a mount that will work with 3" schedule 40 pipe, which has an OD of 3.5". If you by chance bought pipe that was 3" OD instead of 3" Sched 40, then I can see where you might be off by a half inch. Above, you say that your pole is 3" but don't say if that's the OD or the ID or if it's 3" Sched 40.
There are some dishes that come with a mount for 3.5" sched 40, which would have a 4" OD, as someone mentioned above, however those mounts are usually for dishes bigger than 10' or heavier than most 10' dishes.

Anyway, if your pole is really a whole inch too small, then I would worry that it wasn't stiff enough to support the dish. If it's just 1/2" too small, _AND_ if it's sched 40, you might be able to get away with slipping the next size up of sched 40 over top of the other pipe, although I think I'd use more than just a sleeve at the top. I think I'd use several feet of the bigger pole, and perhaps fill the smaller pole with concrete, if you haven't already. I don't usually fill poles with concrete, but in your case, it might be a good idea.

I'm also curious about the "clamp" description. Most 10' dishes I've seen have the next size pipe as a mount, with 3 or 4 tabs welded on threaded for bolts. Or alternatively, some dishes have a sort of collar that goes 90% of the way around the pipe, with bolts that pull it tight around the pipe. I've only seen "clamps" on smaller dishes, although you might call the collar thing I described as a clamp. Mainly just curious on that question.

 

[Lil Chris]

B.J.,
I'm just guessing on an inch, it may only be a half inch or so. The pipe was 3"OD I think, it's galvanized steel pipe (but thicker than fence post for chain link fences), it may not be Sched 40. I'll take a picture when it stops raining. It seems fairly sturdy though...

The "clamp" or mount goes 90% around, which is split into two sides with 4 bolts that tighten to clamp it together.

 

[dougruss]

What Dish do you have?

 

[Lil Chris]

What Dish do you have?

I think it's a SAMI 10' I may be wrong though... (please don't laugh at the duct tape , it was holding in some shims temporarily while I tightened up the screws, until I could figure out how to proceed properly)

 

[B.J.]

B.J.,
I'm just guessing on an inch, it may only be a half inch or so. The pipe was 3"OD I think, it's galvanized steel pipe (but thicker than fence post for chain link fences), it may not be Sched 40. I'll take a picture when it stops raining. It seems fairly sturdy though...

The "clamp" or mount goes 90% around, which is split into two sides with 4 bolts that tighten to clamp it together.

OK, that makes sense. I'm using the 3.5" OD version of what you're using. I don't think it's QUITE as sturdy as sched 40, but almost. It was the only thing I could find at the time. My first dish, I put on real sked 40, and a friend and I split a 21' section, and I think it cost about $30 each. I priced sked 40 recently, and I found prices in the $270-$450 range. Local (30 miles away) scrap yards didn't have any. The 3.5" OD galvanized seems to work OK for me, but I'm not sure that the smaller stuff would or not. But since it's in there, you might as well try it, but I'd check out a welder, and see if he has a couple feet of the next size up to either weld or bolt on over the galvanized stuff.

Re the 90% coverage "clamp", you are right about it being split on both sides. That's what my old Orbitron dish with the Ajax mount had. I think Ajax made two styles, one with the 3.5" sched 40 pipe with bolts to secure it, and a cheaper model with the splits you describe. I hated that mount, because if you loosen the bolts enough to turn the mount on the pole, the whole assembly tilts a bit, so you can't trust your peaking. However, since you have the smaller pipe to put it on, that could actually be a good thing. I would recommend getting a welder to weld on 3 or 4 nuts over holes (or blocks of metal that you can drill and tap) on about a 13"-16" (or more) section of 3" (3.5" OD) sched 40 pipe (making sure that the weld point leaves at least 10" to fit inside the split mount), so that you can bolt your mount onto this sleeve, and then bolt the sleeve onto the pole. This will mean that you won't have to ever loosen the bolts on the split mount. The pipe over pipe arrangement won't tilt nearly so much when you try adjusting your azimuth of the mount on the pole.

 

[Lil Chris]

OK, that makes sense. I'm using the 3.5" OD version of what you're using. I don't think it's QUITE as sturdy as sched 40, but almost. It was the only thing I could find at the time. My first dish, I put on real sked 40, and a friend and I split a 21' section, and I think it cost about $30 each.

That sounds about right mine cost 15 bucks at a used scrap place.

I priced sked 40 recently, and I found prices in the $270-$450 range. Local (30 miles away) scrap yards didn't have any. The 3.5" OD galvanized seems to work OK for me, but I'm not sure that the smaller stuff would or not. But since it's in there, you might as well try it, but I'd check out a welder, and see if he has a couple feet of the next size up to either weld or bolt on over the galvanized stuff.

I was thinking he could just weld a piece of pipe over what I have. I think better pipe would be best, but I'm not about to did another hole if I don't have to. I think it should hold up ok, short of a tornado (I hope anyway)

Re the 90% coverage "clamp", you are right about it being split on both sides. That's what my old Orbitron dish with the Ajax mount had. I think Ajax made two styles, one with the 3.5" sched 40 pipe with bolts to secure it, and a cheaper model with the splits you describe. I hated that mount, because if you loosen the bolts enough to turn the mount on the pole, the whole assembly tilts a bit, so you can't trust your peaking. However, since you have the smaller pipe to put it on, that could actually be a good thing. I would recommend getting a welder to weld on 3 or 4 nuts over holes (or blocks of metal that you can drill and tap) on about a 13"-16" (or more) section of 3" (3.5" OD) sched 40 pipe (making sure that the weld point leaves at least 10" to fit inside the split mount), so that you can bolt your mount onto this sleeve, and then bolt the sleeve onto the pole. This will mean that you won't have to ever loosen the bolts on the split mount. The pipe over pipe arrangement won't tilt nearly so much when you try adjusting your azimuth of the mount on the pole.

I'll have to ponder this some more...

 

[B.J.]

...
I was thinking he could just weld a piece of pipe over what I have. I think better pipe would be best, but I'm not about to did another hole if I don't have to. I think it should hold up ok, short of a tornado (I hope anyway)



I'll have to ponder this some more...

Basically, I'm thinking that you might end up with a mount that is easier to adjust if you DON'T weld your sleeve to the pipe, but clamp your mount to the sleeve, which will then allow you to adjust your mount's azimuth (ie pointing south) by rotating the sleeve over the smaller pipe. This would greatly reduce the effect of the mount tilting when you loosen the bolts to rotate it, which is really significant with that clamp mount you have. The three dishes I've used which have pipe over pipe mounts didn't tilt nearly as much as that clamp type mount. But you'll need some way of fixing the sleeve in place over the pipe, which is why you'll need to have them weld nuts to the pipe so that you can put bolts through it to lock it in place. The pipe over pipe mount I got with my new dish has 4 big threaded nuts welded to the side of the pipe. However, since you need to slide the 10" long collar of your clamp mount over this, you'd only have room for maybe 2 bolts at the bottom I guess, which might not be the best, but I guess if the sleeve is longer it should be OK.

 

[Lil Chris]

I see what your saying now. I was thinking it would be just as easy to weld the sleeve directly to the pipe and use the mount as it was designed. It would still keep it from wobbling in the mount by filling the slack from the pole being a half inch to small.

I was looking at this Speedy Metals - 3-1/2" OD {A} x 3.000" ID {B} x .250" Wall {C} DOM Steel Tube 12" for 32 bucks, I suppose I could find it cheaper but I'm not sure where to look.

I measured the pipe this morning and it came out to 3.023 outer diameter (right at 3").

While were talking about this, when I was out there this morning I pushed on the pole to see if it moves. It does a little when looking at the dish, is that ok (I'm not sure what the tolerance is for signal)? Or does it need to be rigid, like not move at all, even the slightest. It could also be from the way it's mounted at the moment. I suppose I may need to fill the pipe with concrete...

 

[B.J.]

I see what your saying now. I was thinking it would be just as easy to weld the sleeve directly to the pipe and use the mount as it was designed. It would still keep it from wobbling in the mount by filling the slack from the pole being a half inch to small.

I was looking at this Speedy Metals - 3-1/2" OD {A} x 3.000" ID {B} x .250" Wall {C} DOM Steel Tube 12" for 32 bucks, I suppose I could find it cheaper but I'm not sure where to look.

I measured the pipe this morning and it came out to 3.023 outer diameter (right at 3&quot.

While were talking about this, when I was out there this morning I pushed on the pole to see if it moves. It does a little when looking at the dish, is that ok (I'm not sure what the tolerance is for signal)? Or does it need to be rigid, like not move at all, even the slightest. It could also be from the way it's mounted at the moment. I suppose I may need to fill the pipe with concrete...

Re the link to the pipe, hard to say, is 3.023 is bigger than the 3.000 that they say the ID of the pipe is. If their ID is a tad bigger, then your pipe might fit in perfectly, but if those specs are accurate, your pipe may not fit. I just looked up the ID of 3" sched 40, which is 3.068, so the 3.023 should fit in sched 40 OK. I just looked again at your link. Look at the link they have there re important info about telescoping. Basically that says that you can never be sure to be able to fit one pipe into another. They say to allow at least .010", and in your case that pipe is .032" too small, let alone allowing more space. I think that if it were me, I'd try to find some sched 40. I'd think that if you went to a welding shop, that they would have access to some short pieces of sched 40 pipe, and he could drill holes and weld bolts onto the bottom to lock the pipe once it's aligned. Re the pipe moving when you push on it, hard to say. All pipes will move a little bit. I think my galvanized pipe moves a bit more than the black sched 40 I used to have, but it doesn't really affect things too much, except right after a move or in wind, it tends to wobble a bit. But it settles down and is OK. But since your pipe is smaller, it might move more than my pipe does. Big thing is that you don't want it to lean forward due to the weight of the dish. If it does that, there is basically no way to align it perfectly. People with BIG dishes, like there was a guy with a 26' dish on another forum a while back, say that they can't use a polar mount because of the pipe bend. They have to use Az/El mounts. But since your pipe is so small, I'm thinking that you may need the concrete inside. I've never put concrete in a pipe, so I'm not sure what problems that might cause. Other people here have used concrete, so they would know better than me.

 

[Lil Chris]

You got me thinking, so this morning I went out and checked the pole to see if it's still plumb with the dish on it. It does pull the pole off plumb but it's only like less than an 1/8th of an inch. The bubble just touches the line, so it's the amount of distance from the edge of the bubble to the line, which is like an 1/8 of an inch or less. Will that be ok do you think?

I ordered the 12" sched 40 piece of pipe in the size you mentioned for 9 bucks today. I want to thank you for your help.

 

[B.J.]

Hard to say, re the 1/8" bubble. I would think it would be OK, but it probably depends on the level. My digital level showed my pole off by about that much, and it was still reading like 89.8 deg instead of 90.0, which shouldn't matter much. Tilt to the south doesn't matter at all, because that will be taken care of with the elevation adjustment, but tilts to the east or west are more troublesome. Your pole will probably tilt the most however, when it's aiming near the east or west horizon.
You want to see tilt though.... back in the 80s when a friend and I both bought dishes, he got his first, and went to a hardware store and got sched 40 pipe, and planted it in concrete. I went over to help install the dish, and it turned out that PVC pipe can also be called sched 40, and that's what they gave him, instead of steel. We put the dish up anyway, thinking that we could anchor it with guy wires, but as the motor turned, that dish tilted 4 or 5 inches in whatever direction the dish was aimed. We eventually planted a new steel pole right next to the PVC one, and moved the dish over.
But that was funny to see that PVC pole staggering around.

 

[Lil Chris]

Just following up with a pic of the welded sleeve, it came out real nice