Puerto Rico's Senate Law 2777 to intervine with Dish Network Discriminatory Practices

[Tom_P]

After all this hassle I just can't understand why Dish sent a new sat to a location(61.5) that is going to be downsized... Why not to the 72 or 77....?

My opinion, this is going nowhere.... If all this was just a matter of providers not allowing to get the channel out of the Continental US, why was I allowed to have the long dead VOOM, then all the other new HD Channels for years. I used to pay them $30 a month just for HD(Up to Platinum). Now I pay "nothing", but my invoices are just $10 less than before because all the other charges increases..

 

[rdavidowski]

Tell me Tom. You know that I am on the same spot as you and as many more here on the island. We used to get all the service, all HD available and even Platinum, before the new idea of Estern Ark. Now we are not allowed Platinum wish takes of 10 dollars out of the bill, they also turned off all HD channels from 61.5 for us but at the same time raised the price on every other little thing they can come up with. So at the end their is realy no HD free for Life, that is just marketing, and on top of that they reduced the amount of HD's for us on the island because of the Eastern Ark idea. So that's the math for us, more money for less available channels.

They should have plan that new sat Echostar 15 for spot 72.7 if they knew they were making that move. That is why I have said before that Dish on this particular matter has have no consideration for costumers here. Like some have said before they just decided to screw us on this one. Because realy their is no reasonable explanation, at least from our viewers point.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Again you are speaking your opinion, I think most folks in PR with DISH think that service has improved greatly over the past two years.

Again DISH can not sell programming there which they are not allowed to.

 

[TheKrell]

Again DISH can not sell programming there which they are not allowed to.

Now there's a hot potato if ever I saw one! If only some PR folks got a hold of the channel list or providers who are spurning them, feathers would fly. (Pardon my mixed metaphors.)

 

[rdavidowski]

Yes Scott this may be my opinion but I have to sincerly disagree with you on the point of programming not beign allowed. This realy is not the case because I used to pay Dish $10 dollars for all HD's comming of spot 61.5 and also $10 more dollars for Platinum. This I had for years as many other here. On top of that many cable operators here are now carring all the channels beign cut out by Dish from us from sat 61.5, example Science Channel, Green and many other HD channels. This are HD channels we are talking about, because we still have the SD versions of all the channels Dish provides. So knowing this how can this be a matter of programming not being allowed by networks?

The only networks that restrict or blackout their programming are Telemundo and Univision because they have local trans. rights here. This also include Telefutura and Galavision because Univision ownes them.

Also I talked with a Dish Exectuvie Resolution Office person that clearly stated to me that they considered PR's situation when making plans for the Eastern Ark idea and they decided to leave us out because of number of subscribers considerations. "We had to attend the bigger picture so we decided to leave PR out until further notice" this was his words not mine. They just told me they will communicate something else if something changes. Clearly we are being screwd here because of the changes beign done for TP allocations for HD programming for the Eastern part of the Nation. Since we don't have footprint for sat 129 nor 72.7 we are beign left out for the moment. Great signal for 61.5 but then again why will we want now anything from that sat once the changes are completed. This is the reason I say we were not beign considered by Dish on this HD matter, we used to have them and now we don't and the price has incresed on everything else, which makes HD Free for Life promo kind of a bad marketing joke. My bill is still the same but with less HD channels.

 

[rdavidowski]

Another observation: What Dish has done with HD's here on the Island is put some of them on local spot beams on sats 119/110 because signal form 61.5 used to be kind of weak and you neaded a bigger antenna to compensate for that. We use to need a 6 footer for this sat and not everybody had this setup, but clearly that is not the case now. Anyhow when Dish started here back in 1997 that 6 footer antenna was the standard one so there are many around the island, clearly Dish had no problem providing service with that antenna back then. So what they are doing is providing maybe more HD channels for setups that only have 119 and 110 sats. but the ones with an antenna pointed at 61.5 are feeling the pain. The costumers with only 119/110 clearly don't know better because they have never been able to get any HD's until now. So for them they are under the impresion that things are getting better but for the others it's getting worse. This is clearly a dilema.

 

[elTiTANio]

if Dish is required to blackout on the latino lineups a total of 6 spanish channels in PR ( UNVSN, UNVSNW, FTRAE, GLVSN, TMNDO, TMNDOW) surely they are ripping off every single client in Puerto Rico who subscribes latino packs and pay the same as Conus folks. TOTAL RIPOFF. those are the most popular spanish channels, the packs should COST $10 less at least without them. people are actually not suscribing to them, they are not paying the networks for those subs, so the overall DISH service in PR is pretty much more expensive than in other states.

also every customer on the EA has 61.5, 72.7 an 77, why dont they just switch back to primary HD off 61.5? no one would notice but us in PR, its pretty lame.

 

[Beeski]

Another observation: What Dish has done with HD's here on the Island is put some of them on local spot beams on sats 119/110 because signal form 61.5 used to be kind of weak and you neaded a bigger antenna to compensate for that. We use to need a 6 footer for this sat and not everybody had this setup, but clearly that is not the case now. Anyhow when Dish started here back in 1997 that 6 footer antenna was the standard one so there are many around the island, clearly Dish had no problem providing service with that antenna back then. So what they are doing is providing maybe more HD channels for setups that only have 119 and 110 sats. but the ones with an antenna pointed at 61.5 are feeling the pain. The costumers with only 119/110 clearly don't know better because they have never been able to get any HD's until now. So for them they are under the impresion that things are getting better but for the others it's getting worse. This is clearly a dilema.

This exactly describes my setup in the USVI.
With both 110 and 119 now reachable by a single 30 incher (vs. the 6 footers that dot our islands), I would much prefer Dish to focus on adding more HD to 110/119 than forcing us to add a 2nd dish to get 61.5.

 

[rdavidowski]

Welcom Beeski, since I noticed this is your first post.

What you say would be great if Dish had more TP space on those spots for us PR/USVI. But the fact is that there are no more available spot TP's on those sats to acomodate any new HD's much less all of the ones we are missing. But with another 30" dish pointed at spot 61.5, if Dish wanted to, they would have all the space neaded to provide that service for us right now. At this time Dish has the mayority of the HD channels that we are missing on 61.5 and we were able to acces them until one day about two months ago Dish decided to block us from that sat because of the move their about to start making next month to eastern ark. So even though your wish would be the best solution it is not a possible one given the space available on does sats. So a more realistic solution would be to have a second 30" dish pointed at 61.5 an Dish just move all HD to that sat insted of 72.7. That way nobody gets afected on CONUS and we would still have the sevice.

 

[ljdonato]

Again DISH can not sell programming there which they are not allowed to.

Scott
I think the topic that started this thread was the notion that a bill being considered could bring equality to PR customers on the issue of the HD channels. And, although that notion was not correct, as explained in an earlier post, (mostly because this bill don't have any powers in respect of forcing a provider to offer any programming), I have to respectfully disagree with you in terms of what programming is or is not allowed in PR.
The issue is, most of us are not talking about what we are not allowed to watch (the spanish networks, which restricts us-- and a lot of us do care less about), but of what we were able to watch, but with all the package and transponder reshuffling we were deprive of: most HD premiums and some of the HD channels, specially the new ones, which are being added to 72 and 129. No one is legally restricting us from watching those (as rdavidowsky points out), we were, in fact, watching and paying for a lot of those just a month and a half ago.

So, right now, were do we stand in all this? First, the bill that started all this discussion (and gave name to the thread) is non-sequential to what we are discussing now.
2- In the past 2 months we have lost a lot of HD channels, and we were watching those without restrictions of any kind.
3- We will lose a lot more come October, when all HD supposedly goes away from 61.5
4- We could watch some of those HD channels we lost, if we were to subscribe to other providers, like cable (again, we are not restricted to watch those channels) (and, no, most DISH customers in PR won't change to cable, availability, crappy pic quality and a joke of hardware)
5. There is a rumor that DISH will introduce a lot of HD sometime in the future (yes, a RUMOR, but in the state of things right now, we can only hope).

Of course, DISH can do whatever they want with their business. And, of course, the possibilities could include adding those HD channels back to PR customers (I do believe that in some posts by Digi, about TP assignments, there were some TPs assigned to PR that are not being used right now). Anyway, and in the meantime, I wait, and hope that Dish adds more HD soon.

 

[rdavidowski]

Hi Ljdonato

I completely agree with you. That is exactly what I am talking about. This is not a matter of what stations are allowed or not to be offered by Dish to PR's costumers. The issue is that we did had all the HD channels and payed for them and they were taken away because of all the new shuffling beign done for the eastern arc configuration. Maybe the better service that Scott is refering to is the impresion of costumers here on the island that never had service from 61.5 and did not had any HD. And now they have some HD channels beign offered through some spot beams on sats 110/119. I guess that for them everything is fine and dandy. But for the rest of us that did had service off of 61.5, had all the HD channels offered even Platinum, were paying for them already and were forcefully taken away, things definetly are not getting better. They took away HD channels but the bill has remain the same because of all the price increses on every little thing they can come up with. How is that better service? And then intentionaly leaving us out when planning for the eastern arc movements just because we are a few costumers. Come on, a better solution is to put all HD's on 61.5 and not on 72.7 that way now one on CONUS gets affected and we still keep the HD's as we used to.

Also on the issue of PR beign allowed to receive or not to receive some stations. Let me point out that PR is not another country; this is the USA. For all practical purposes this is legally the USA and if a station is allowed to transmit in CONUS by default it is allowed in PR. The FCC does not go around giving transmision licenses and including or excluding PR specificaly, if the license is given and applies to the USA it applies also for PR. Their are no special considerations for PR on that respect. The only issue we have are with Univision and the sations it ownes and Telemundo that are blacked out by Dish because their local owned afiliates asked Dish for this. And then what they only do is delay programming in some occasions. And in reality here nobody cares about those stations beign blacked out.

 

[dbs2000]

That easy to Say when you don't pay 193.00/month

I am thinking that this could get out of hand. Like Dish just turning everything off in Puerto Rico, no service at all. Nobody has a right to service....

Not even you without FX, NTGEO and all the FOX related channels.

 

[chicagonettech]

Hi Ljdonato

. . . Let me point out that PR is not another country; this is the USA. For all practical purposes this is legally the USA and if a station is allowed to transmit in CONUS by default it is allowed in PR. The FCC does not go around giving transmission licenses and including or excluding PR specifically, if the license is given and applies to the USA it applies also for PR. Their are no special considerations for PR on that respect.

Puerto Rico is a US POSSESSION. It is not a state. It does not fall under the same laws with regard to radio and television transmissions.

If US Possessions were to fall under the same laws regarding broadcasts, then Dish would have to send signals to every US possession, including GUAM. Until Puerto Ricans accept statehood, they will not be covered in the same manner as Wisconsin, or Florida, or California, or Arizona, etc, etc.

 

[TNGTony]

Puerto Rico is a US POSSESSION. It is not a state. It does not fall under the same laws with regard to radio and television transmissions.

If US Possessions were to fall under the same laws regarding broadcasts, then Dish would have to send signals to every US possession, including GUAM. Until Puerto Ricans accept statehood, they will not be covered in the same manner as Wisconsin, or Florida, or California, or Arizona, etc, etc.

Being a state does not guarantee a damned thing. Ask any Alaskan or Hawaiian trying to get all the channels available here on the mainland.

What becoming a full state would do is give PR 7 voting representatives in the US House and 2 voting Senators (instead of 1 sort-of voting observer ---can vote but his vote connot be the deciding vote in anything and cannot directly introduce legislation) to help steer legislation to mandate certain things like the Alaskan and Hawaiian reps and senators did with the last SHVA upgrade.

 

[dbs2000]

Bunch of Bull

Puerto Rico is a US POSSESSION. It is not a state. It does not fall under the same laws with regard to radio and television transmissions.

If US Possessions were to fall under the same laws regarding broadcasts, then Dish would have to send signals to every US possession, including GUAM. Until Puerto Ricans accept statehood, they will not be covered in the same manner as Wisconsin, or Florida, or California, or Arizona, etc, etc.

First of all Guam does have coverage due to current setup. Puerto Rico up to June 2010 had just about every channel including Platinum. All of the sudden they are quickly disappearing.

That's a bunch of crap. They still take my 193.00 a month, but not for long. Since the US economy is almost bankrupt with 18 Trillion in debt and 23rd in teaching skills maybe you don't need more income. Let China Inc. rule!!!!.

 

[rdavidowski]

Sorry Chicagonettech

I respectfuly disagree with you. Inform yourself before making that kind of a statement. We may not be a state and yes we are an Unincorporated Territory govern by Congress LAW 600 (1952) and part of the US since 1898. Yes an Unicorporated Territory (Commonwelth) just what about every other state was before becoming a state, exept for the original 13 states and a few others. We are working on becoming a state as I write this (HR2499). What TNGTony said is the only difference right now and some federal income tax exeptions if you do not work for a federal agency or recive any income from the mainland. Again every other law that applies to any of the 50 states applies here. I repeate all federal laws apply here without any exeption. Go look it up for yourself. I live here in PR and surely know this as any other person that lives here. All FCC, FBI, DEA, CIA and whatever other Federal Regulatory or Law enforcement agency you can imagine are implemented in PR and as any other state are above local state law. Again since Pres. Ronald Regan (1980) and all presidents after him, all have put in place an executive order saying to all federal agencies to TREAT PR AS IF IT WAS A STATE. We are the only Territory with this put in place. You can verify this if you want with the Federal State Department. So again if the FCC or any other federal agency for that matter makes a ruling for the USA it applies to PR also by default. Whether you like it, understand it or not the fact still is that PR is part of the United Sates of America and there are 4 million US Citizens since 1917 (Jones–Shafroth Act) signed into law by President Woodrow Wilson. And all persons born in Puerto Rico after 1941 are consider natural-born (by Birth) citizens of the United States, one of the constitutional requirements to be President of the United States as long as their address is on one of the 50 states for at least 10 years. This is what exactly happened on Hawaii before becoming a state, according to The Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, SEC. 305. [8 U.S.C. 1405], "A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. So I guess at leat that qualifies me to (not that I ever wanted too) to be a president of the US as I have a residence here in PR and one in Florida for more that 10 years.

Contrary to common misconception, residents of Puerto Rico pay some U.S. federal taxes: import/export taxes, federal commodity taxes, social security taxes, etc. Most residents do not pay federal income tax but pay federal payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare). But federal employees, or those who do business with the federal government, Puerto Rico-based corporations that intend to send funds to the U.S. and others also pay federal income taxes. Also as proof of one of the memos of what I already stated before: President George H.W. Bush issued a memorandum on November 30, 1992, to heads of executive departments and agencies establishing the current administrative relationship between the Federal Government and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. This memorandum directs all Federal departments, agencies, and officials to treat Puerto Rico administratively as if it were a State insofar as doing so would not disrupt Federal programs or operations.


PS. And yes PR falls under the same rules and regulation for radio and TV transmission of the FCC. HDTV was implemented here as the rest of the nation by rule of the Federal regulatory agencies. And all radio and TV sations are regulated and addressed with a begining W meanning their east of the Mississipi River as mandated by the FCC.

 

[rdavidowski]

Besides what I wrote on the previous post. The matter of PR beign a state or not does not influence if Dish gives service to PR or not. If Guam was a state probably because of their location they still would probably would not receive service from Dish because of footprint conserns which are purely technical reasons. What is beign argumented here in this thread is that we already had the Platinum service and HD channels and Dish because of their plan to have an Eastern Arc in place is restricting access to PR subscribers to some HD channels now. Since they are supposedly moving all national HD to 72.7 orbital location and we do not have footprint for that sat we are beign cut off of some of the HD service we already had. We have great coverage by 61.5 and if they (Dish) just left national HD on that sat and put whatever their planing for 61.5 on 72.7 we would not be affected and at the same time no one on the east cost either.

Again this is all technical reasons by Dish on not giving the exact same service as CONUS here in PR. It was just a bad decision of Dish toward us in PR, in my opinion anyhow, because we already had the service. So the reasons given by some justifing Dish decision just don't apply as nothing beign done by Dish has to do with laws governing PR or PR's political status. It was service already available and then taken away because of new planing by Dish for the East cost. I already have confirmed this with someone at the executive offices.

Hope Dish reconsiders and just invert planed changes for programming between 72.7 and 61.5 that way no one gets affected. We are costumers to since 1997. There are no rasonable excuses given by Dish for not doing this. And if there are some reasonable ones then be up front and explained them to us.

 

[navychop]

First of all Guam does have coverage due to current setup.......

What do you mean? Guam has zero Dish or DirecTV service.

 

[dbs2000]

What do you mean? Guam has zero Dish or DirecTV service.

I meant to say does not have coverage and of course service. Typo on my part.

 

[rdavidowski]

Hi

For those interested on knowing a little bit of PR's history and USA history for that matter. And really understand the relationship between PR and the US here is a link to a video report of Puerto Rico USA dated as of 1955, explaining on aprox. 11 minutes all the "mombojombo" of this piece of history. Hope this video will visualy clear all doubts of Puerto Rico's position within our nation the USA.

Report on Puerto Rico, U.S.A. : Teleview Productions (Emerson Yorke Studios) : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive