PS3 vs recent state of the art set top players

[mike123abc]

One of them was me, i.e. no existing player will be able to handle it.
And I stick to what I said.

Diogen.

I would say it would be difficult but not impossible. I can think of a few ways they could do it. It would have to be out of band data. You would have the normal video stream for backwards compatibility then a separate data stream that old style players would ignore as a computer data file that would have the extra data in it.

If it were so impossible, why is there so much buzz about it now? I admit it would be an awkward fix to use out of band data, and would require some processing power on the player to handle putting the 2 data streams together. Perhaps it will be some half baked gimmicky scheme, but it will be interesting to see if it does indeed come out.

 

[diogen]

I would say it would be difficult but not impossible.

True. Amir was talking about this years ago.
IIRC, DTS-HD MA is implemented this way...

....a separate data stream that old style players would ignore....

and here lies the rub: old players won't play it - all I said.
PS3 is a PC. PC can be made play everything. With appropriate software...

If it were so impossible, why is there so much buzz about it now?

So the BD idea doesn't die in its crib...Same goal as 16-layer BD disks, for example.
And 51GB HD DVD disk before that.... PS3 bitstreaming DTS MA...

I admit it would be an awkward fix....

Unless Sony wants to be left alone in the BDA, they better keep this as theory...
If it is doable, we'll most probably see it in some download service for PS3/Xbox only
but even then I can't imagine studios doing the extra work... And software being rewritten...
I think profiling did enough damage to BD to even stop thinking about this in any practical sense.

Diogen.

 

[TheForce]

The 3D movie I have, Hanna Montanna is on the disk twice, once for 2D and once for 3D version. You select it at startup. Why wouldn't this be a solution to deep color if it is so important to implement at the source.


JoeSP- Some update on the PS3 button to power on: I ran into a flaw in this procedure. It has been replicated so it was not a fluke. When the PS3 is put in standby for a day (red light still on) the PS button will indeed pull it out of standby (green light) However, when the 120vac is removed as I do to shut the system down, for 6 or more hours ( 6 hours is the shortest time I have tested) then when I put power to it (red light on) the PS3 remote control PS button has no effect. It goes into 5 led's blinking. I have to either push the local power button or stick in a dvd to go green. Then the remote has one light on and everything returns to normal. It's no big deal because, personally, I will need to be at the PS3 base to insert a DVD anyway but just thought I'd pass this fly in the soup issue along that the power on remote is still not without it's issues. I'm just happy that I can operate the DVD player with my home theater master.
Oh one more thing- the Blue Tooth keyboard also won't turn on the PS3 base so if I'm not using the PS3 and it is still in standby and decide to surf the internet, I can't just pick up the keyboard and switch the system to the PS3 via the Home theater master remote, I'll need to go to the PS3 base and push the startup button.

 

[waltinvt]

Thanks Joe & Don (and probably others) for all the great PS3 info.

I noticed that holding the Logo button on the sixaxis controller for a few seconds brings up the menu for quitting game, shutting down system or controller, etc but it also shows the charge status of the controller if running wireless or that it is charging if connected with usb.

Is there any way to charge controllers from the PS3 without leaving the system on and would it hurt the controller to leave it hooked up over night?

 

[diogen]

The 3D movie I have, Hanna Montanna is on the disk twice, once for 2D and once for 3D version. You select it at startup. Why wouldn't this be a solution to deep color if it is so important to implement at the source.

It would be. But I think only in theory.
Two versions of a movie require about twice the space. As a rule, this won't work with BD.
If two movies are put on a disc, twice as much work has to be done. Customer won't pay twice as much.
If one of the versions is only playable on PS3, what is the incentive to release standalone players?

With DTS MA (?) the audio track consists of two parts.
First, the soundtrack undergoes a lossy encoding, like DTS HR.
Secong, this lossy track is subtracted from the original and the difference is encoded losslessly.
By adding the first and second we get a lossless soundtrack.
If your player is not capable of handling lossless, it just reads the first track.

If this can be done with 8-bit -> 10-bit (very big if), it would be possible to keep two versions of the movie on a disk.
But again, no player but the PS3 (and what gets released after the fact) will be able to handle the second part...

Diogen.

 

[TheForce]

diogen- I agree that the incentive to offer this "deep color" on the disk is slight and the market is small, probably too small to pay for it. So, it is unlikely this will ever happen. Just not enough gimmick or benefit to justify the cost in the real world.

But I'm not sure I agree with you about the mechanics, i.e. you said "twice as much work" I don't have much experience authoring BluRay programming . Actually, I have only 3 now to my credit and working on a 4th next week. ( Sony Vegas 8b and DVDA 5.0) The part I think you have overestimated is the double the work factor. Most of the real cost in production is in the creation layout. Once the basic architecture of the disk is done, adding an alternative playback format adds very little cost in production time to the package. If the disk capacity is there it is an easy task. I don't know that much about the deep color processing from a production angle but let me guess a single transfer would be achieved and after the highest quality rendering is complete a second rendering to offer compatible color space for legacy players would be done. The initial disk production of the master would be a bit longer in rendering time due to the greater volume of data but once that is done the manufacturing cost would be the same.
As for players other than upgradeable PS3, all that takes is yet once more a new generation of standalone players with adequate dedicated hardware.
But that is just the mechanics, not the marketability and here is where I feel this whole game will never float. Just not enough gimmick to make it appeal to the market. Give me 3D option any day of the week, but then this does require special cameras and a much higher cost in production. I'd say that cost is much more than double. But I can touch and feel a huge value added in 3D whereas the deep color, maybe, likely too subtle to be enthusiastic about.

 

[JoeSp]

Thanks Joe & Don (and probably others) for all the great PS3 info.

I noticed that holding the Logo button on the sixaxis controller for a few seconds brings up the menu for quitting game, shutting down system or controller, etc but it also shows the charge status of the controller if running wireless or that it is charging if connected with usb.

Is there any way to charge controllers from the PS3 without leaving the system on and would it hurt the controller to leave it hooked up over night?

There is no way from the PS3 but you can do what I did. I purchased for $19.99 a charger for the PS3 controllers that just plugs into an outlet. It works very well and cuts itself off when the controllers are charged up. When I get home I will post the brand name here.

 

[diogen]

But I'm not sure I agree with you about the mechanics, i.e. you said "twice as much work"...

What I meant here is the encoding has to be done twice.
It does not always mean "twice the work" when restoration and such is involved.
But the encoding can't be treated as resolution: get a 1920x1080 picture and it will be downconverted on the fly to 480i if needed.

We might get there, one way or another, we just ain't there yet.
And I suspect most of the grandious plans on the BDA's part are nothing but PR.

Diogen.

 

[mike123abc]

Big studios are now making 8k masters of the films in deep color. So, it probably is not going to be much work for them to come up with a deep color 1080p 2k image.

 

[Bobby H]

Actually, most Hollywood movies have CGI and digital intermediates produced at only 2K resolution (not much above 1080p HD). The use of 4K is still pretty rare.

Sony seems to be doing more 4K stuff than other studios (since it has a vested interest in promoting its 4K-based digital projection system). Most digital projection systems being installed are 2K resolution, usually 3-chip 2K DLP Christie CP2000 projectors. The Motion JPEG2000 files played by these projectors do have deeper color bit rates than anything currently offered on Blu-ray.

8K is very rarely used. The only two instances I've heard of this year regarding anything in 8K is the digital-treated IMAX 15-perf 70mm footage from The Dark Knight and the digital intermediate of the Todd-AO 5-perf 70mm footage from Baraka (for a new Blu-ray release this October).