Proper grounding of pole mount?

[raoul5788]

When are you guys going to learn, that the "LOCAL INSPECTOR" will set the rules, and those are the guidelines that must be met, which may or may not meet the NEC guidelines!!!

Quoting the NEC, and wasting a lot of time and energy, is not necessary!!! Mike Holt is a great source, but any electrician will tell you that the "LOCAL INSPECTOR" is the one you will have to live with, if something goes wrong!!!

That's why I called him earlier today. Unfortunately he won't be in until tomorrow.

 

[Satmeister]

When are you guys going to learn, that the "LOCAL INSPECTOR" will set the rules, and those are the guidelines that must be met, which may or may not meet the NEC guidelines!!!

Right on - local code rules on this issue.

In our area, according to the city's official Website (under building inspections) "any metallic conduting object that reaches 3' in depth below the common land surface" is considered a "grounded" object - so if your Dish's pipe is buried 3' or more in the ground....bingo - your dish is grounded. I made a call to the building inspectors office here 10 minutes ago and they confirmed this on the phone.

 

[mikekohl]

The dish may be grounded in the last message, but it does not address the fact that the LNBF and its coax line must be grounded to the same potential as the service ground supplying AC power to the house. Grounding the dish is needed for dissipating lighting strikes, but the LNBF and coax are another whole issue.
That's why entries to most installations use a grounding block, which is tied with the previously mentioned heavy wire to the house ground or its equivalent.

The entire logic is that the satellite receiver(s) must be grounded to a common location, and as part of that circuit, the LNBF should do the same. Without a common ground you will have differences in voltage potential, which cause ground loops and all sorts of operational problems with your equipment.

 

[HCI]

Right on - local code rules on this issue.

In our area, according to the city's official Website (under building inspections) "any metallic conduting object that reaches 3' in depth below the common land surface" is considered a "grounded" object - so if your Dish's pipe is buried 3' or more in the ground....bingo - your dish is grounded. I made a call to the building inspectors office here 10 minutes ago and they confirmed this on the phone.

wrong. All local codes must atleast follow NEC codes which states this is not a true ground.

 

[bryansr]

My local inspector MADE me put 3 each 8 ft. ground rods placed 6 feet apart when I had my electrical service updated to a larger service panel. He would NOT sign off and allow the local utility to restore my electrical service!
There are quite a few Electricians who WILL NOT work in this county because they say he makes up the rules as he sees fit and changes them at will.

BryanSR

 

[Satmeister]

wrong. All local codes must atleast follow NEC codes which states this is not a true ground.

I guess you know more than the local building inspector about the local codes here - excuse me. I should have checked with you instead.

The issue with the grounding blocks mentioned by another poster here is also valid, and I forgot to mention that aspect.

 

[Doctor Bob]

wrong. All local codes must atleast follow NEC codes which states this is not a true ground.

If the "LOCAL INSPECTOR" states that the grounding meets local codes, then that supercedes the NEC (as stated by the NEC)!!!

Quit mis-quoting the facts!!! Yes, in a lot of cases the local code will meet the NEC, but not in all cases, and as long as the "LOCAL AUTHORITY" approves a grounding method, that will be the end of any conversation regarding the "CODE"...

 

[Doctor Bob]

My local inspector MADE me put 3 each 8 ft. ground rods placed 6 feet apart when I had my electrical service updated to a larger service panel. He would NOT sign off and allow the local utility to restore my electrical service!
There are quite a few Electricians who WILL NOT work in this county because they say he makes up the rules as he sees fit and changes them at will.

BryanSR

Have you ever considered the fact, that this inspector might have taken meter readings and found that it took three ground rods, to meet the Utility Standards for Bonding and Ground Interrupts???

Your local Inspector is the "Decision Maker" and "LOCAL AUTHORITY" on the issues of Grounding. Not even the NEC can over ride his decisions...

Grounding issues and codes, are to protect LIVES, not property!!! So if anyone needs questions answered about their local grounding issues or problems, then they need to speak to their "LOCAL AUTHORITY", and not someone from another locality, and especially not on a message board, that does not specifically deal with grounding and bonding issues... If you are an electrician, then go to www.mikeholt.com , if not, go to your "LOCAL AUTHORITY", to get "CORRECT ANSWERS"...

 

[HCI]

http://dbsinstall.com/Whatis/Whatisgood-5.htm

Satellite Dish Installations
NEC Grounding The National Electric Code requires that all satellite dish systems be grounded. The mast and coax cables both require a ground.

This does not mean that the installer can drive a ground rod by the dish, attach a ground wire and call it good. The ground wire must be coupled to your existing building electrical ground. Never allow your installer to drive a ground rod to obtain a ground unless they install a #6 copper wire between the new ground rod and your homes existing electrical ground. Installing a new ground by itself can lead to numerous problems. The entire concept of grounding is complex, but here are a few basic items items to consider.

The mast
The installer can use a #10 copper wire, # 8 Aluminum or a #17 copper coated steel wire. The most common method used today is a coax cable with a copper coated steel wire attached to it. The length is not restricted, but it must be connected (the more proper term is bonded) to an approved grounding point.

The coax
The installer may use a #10 copper or a #8 Aluminum wire. The ground wire should be under 20 feet in length or attached to a ground rod and that rod connected to your electrical ground with a #6 copper wire. Since few, if any, installers carry #6 copper wire and 8 foot ground rods, your dish should be located on the same side of your house as your electrical service.

There are five suitable grounding locations.*

1. Electrical service electrode (ground rod), or the conductor that connects the rod to the electrical service panel. (Image 15)

2. The metal electrical service panel. (Image 16)

3. A metal electrical raceway or conduit. On many homes a strap can be attached to the metal conduit running to the the service panel or between sub-panels (Image 17)

4. Water pipe. BUT ONLY with in five feet of the water pipes entrance to the

structure and only if the water pipe is metal and in direct earth contact for at least 10 feet before entering the property. Attaching a ground wire to a water valve is NOT ACCEPTABLE and should not be accepted. Attaching a ground wire to any water pipe beyond 5 feet from where the pipe emerges from the ground is not allowed. Image 16 shows a ground wire attached to the main water service as the line exists the ground and enters the structure. The point were the water supply pipe emerges from the earth is the pipes point of entry.

5. If the above methods are not available, a ground can be achieved by attaching to the metal frame or steel structure of a building, if the frame or structure is proper grounded by one of the prior methods. This method is often used on mobile homes and RV's. (Image 19) In image 19 the ground block was attached directly to the frame. An alternate method is to attach the ground wire to the frame using a clamp or ground lug screwed to the frame.

* Not all local codes conform too or follow the National Electric Code. Your local codes may vary. If you have any questions about proper grounding methods, contact your local electrical compliance office.

as I said the NEC is the standard in this.

 

[ronjohn]

* Not all local codes conform too or follow the National Electric Code. Your local codes may vary. If you have any questions about proper grounding methods, contact your local electrical compliance office.

as I said the NEC is the standard in this.

But your own post states that not all local codes Conform to the NEC. The NEC is the standard code in all 50 States. The NFPA however does not have any power to enforce the code, only the local inspectors. If the law sets the speed limit at 70mph, but the police do not stop anyone under 100mph, then 100 is the defacto speed limit.

I would still advise everyone to follow the NEC. Even if the local authority allows less stringent installations, I believe a professional installer could be liable if damage occurs(fire) and the damaged parties proclaim in court that your install did not meet industry standards.

 

[Satmeister]

Bury the mast 4' or more into the ground & connect the ground block with ground wire to a ground stake or grounded pipe. Crayons not included.

Case closed.

 

[HCI]

But your own post states that not all local codes Conform to the NEC. The NEC is the standard code in all 50 States. The NFPA however does not have any power to enforce the code, only the local inspectors. If the law sets the speed limit at 70mph, but the police do not stop anyone under 100mph, then 100 is the defacto speed limit.

I would still advise everyone to follow the NEC. Even if the local authority allows less stringent installations, I believe a professional installer could be liable if damage occurs(fire) and the damaged parties proclaim in court that your install did not meet industry standards.

Directv and the other companys state all installs meet all local, state AND national code. Some even go futher like Hughes and states ground blocks must be enclosed or inside, same with comcast.

Your analogy does not work here really because if you have a jobed that is QC'ed and you don't follow atleast the national code you will fail. Some local code exceed national code, in this case you follow the local code.

 

[ronjohn]

wrong. All local codes must atleast follow NEC codes which states this is not a true ground.

This is the type of your posts I was responding to. The NFPA publishes the NEC. The NFPA has NO enforcement authority. In a quote that you posted later it stated that not all local codes conform to the NEC. Only the "local authority" can interpret the code and enforce compliance. The "Only" person that can rule as to whether an installation meets code is the local authority. The NFPA could issue a statement that BillyBob's installation doesn't meet the code, but it would have no authority.

I am not an installer. I do not know what procedures companies have for inspecting installations. I doubt D* or E* ever send anyone out to inspect as most if not all installs are done by contractors.

As I posted before, I do agree that even if a local inspector will allow a less stringent installation, installers should meet the NEC. It would be very easy to have experts in a civil trial describe using a mast 3' in the earth as a ground to be a very unprofessional, inadequate, and unsafe installation regardless of what the local inspector "allows".

 

[Mike500]

It's sch 20. I wanted to get 40, but the place was out of it.

Never heard of schedule 20. ASTM lists schedule 5, 10, 40 and 80; with 5 being the lightest. Schedule 40 is standard.

 

[HCI]

This is the type of your posts I was responding to. The NFPA publishes the NEC. The NFPA has NO enforcement authority. In a quote that you posted later it stated that not all local codes conform to the NEC. Only the "local authority" can interpret the code and enforce compliance. The "Only" person that can rule as to whether an installation meets code is the local authority. The NFPA could issue a statement that BillyBob's installation doesn't meet the code, but it would have no authority.

I am not an installer. I do not know what procedures companies have for inspecting installations. I doubt D* or E* ever send anyone out to inspect as most if not all installs are done by contractors.

As I posted before, I do agree that even if a local inspector will allow a less stringent installation, installers should meet the NEC. It would be very easy to have experts in a civil trial describe using a mast 3' in the earth as a ground to be a very unprofessional, inadequate, and unsafe installation regardless of what the local inspector "allows".

My wording earlier was not the best. What I ment was Directv and other companys hold their standards at the NEC code, it must meet at least that. Their was never a reason to bring up local code unless the local code exceeds the NEC. Even though a dish is ground to local code but does not meet NEC code and D*or E* sends someone out "and yes they do have people they send out just to QC jobs, Wildblue and Hughes especially" and the dish is not grounded to the NEC code and the companys code then the job will be failed. Like I said eairlier alot of companys have thier own rules also.

 

[HCI]

http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Installation/Grounding.htm

Grounding the satellite system to the central building ground helps protect it and other components from lightning damage. Different brands of satellite systems may have special grounding requirements. However, dish installation should comply with local codes and the National Electrical Code (NEC). Refer to your satellite system’s user guides for any other additional grounding information. Grounding the satellite system is something you can probably do yourself. But if you’re not sure, you should contact a qualified electrician. Acceptable central building ground points

 

[Doctor Bob]

Tate,

The NEC is not the Law, and the code can only be inforced by the "Local Authority", or the NFPA, if the Local Authority prefers...

Stop beating a dead horse, and come to your senses...

 

[HCI]

Tate,

The NEC is not the Law, and the code can only be inforced by the "Local Authority", or the NFPA, if the Local Authority prefers...

Stop beating a dead horse, and come to your senses...

Read my post carefully.

 

[ShadowEKU]

Why is it every time the word grounding is uttered someone has to complain.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Why is it every time the word grounding is uttered someone has to complain.

It's not a matter of complaining Shadow, it is a simple matter of fully understanding what is required.

I read your post fully Tate!!! So quit beating a dead horse, and learn what is expected by:

1. The PROVIDER... If that does not meet the Local and or National Electrical Code, then you will have to make sure that you follow your Local Authority's guidelines.

You don't need to go any further Tate!!! The Local Code, supersedes the NEC, even if in most cases, they are following the NEC. There are several hundred cases where the Local Authority has over ridden the NEC...