Proof new HD channels are really Mpeg2

[HokieEngineer]

Example 1: Existing Mpeg2 channel (UltraHD)

Program Number: 9478
PCR on PID 4386 (0x1122)
PMT Version: 0
Service name: ULTRA

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video
Elementary Stream PID 4386 (0x1122)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 4387 (0x1123)


Example 2: New Mpeg2 channel only available to ViP series (GamePlayHD)

Program Number: 9485
PCR on PID 4130 (0x1022)
PMT Version: 0
Service name: GAMEP

Stream Type: 0x02 MPEG-2 Video
Elementary Stream PID 4130 (0x1022)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 4131 (0x1023)


Example 3: Mpeg4/AVC channel (Chicago Local HD)

Program Number: 6312
PCR on PID 4130 (0x1022)
PMT Version: 0
Service name: WLS

Stream Type: 0x1b H.264 Video
Elementary Stream PID 4130 (0x1022)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 4131 (0x1023)



Notice the different stream type on the 3rd example? Ah ha! So in reality all HD receivers could view these new HD channels, except dish has blocked them from all but the ViP series. No preview, no nothin'.

BTW I had first come up with this data to debunk a theory that was posted on dbstalk that "there is no such thing as a mpeg4 transport stream". Unfortunately, my post was deleted and the thread closed. Considering these forums discuss SATELLITE TV, and I was posting SATELLITE TV information that was freely available, I don't see what the big problem is.

Once again, this data is available in the clear. It basically is a "table of contents" for what is on a certain transponder. More techinical information about DVB and Digital video transmission in general can be found here:

http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/index.html
http://www.interactivetvweb.org/tutorial/dtv-intro/dtv-intro.shtml

Edit: I'd like to keep this thread about the technical information, not about certain sites and moderator over-reach .

 

[Gary Murrell]

POS DBSTalk

thanks for the great info, now that the 411 can be modifed for recording(legally!!) I will be able to record the phony mpeg4's

how is Universal HD looking bitrate wise??

-Gary

 

[Smith P.]

We discussed the 'new' approach by Dish a few times - yes, nothing changed in stream for the certain pseudo-MPEG4 channels, exclude SERVICE TYPE !
The service type used by providers for FILTER out certain channels by any reason, like HD from SD receivers, of force hackers to install new software with high security or in last case, force ppl to get new models ie increase revenue.

 

[HokieEngineer]

POS DBSTalk

thanks for the great info, now that the 411 can be modifed for recording(legally!!) I will be able to record the phony mpeg4's

how is Universal HD looking bitrate wise??

-Gary

Whoa, GREAT NEWS! I just read your post about that. I figured the 411 might be the trojan horse to recording the mpeg4/AVC channels! No wonder dish discontinued it so quickly. Hopefully the 211 can be done as well.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Thanks Hokie, I am not really sure what is up with the folks at DBSTalk, this is very valid information which is publicly available and is not hack talk.

I THANK the guys at DBSTalk for driving more traffic to SatelliteGuys where people can talk openly about LEGAL Satellite stuff without worring about about having their threads edited, deleted or locked.

I do this opens some more eyes of whats going on over there.

Welcome to SatelliteGuys!

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

POS DBSTalk

thanks for the great info, now that the 411 can be modifed for recording(legally!!) I will be able to record the phony mpeg4's

I saw your posting of that, which is exciting news. If the 411/211 can be modified with a firewire port then I am guessing that it should not be too hard to do the same with a 622 when they are finally released.

This opens up a new world of possibilities! Imagine if you DVR an event and want to save it to tape, you might be able to!!

One word of advice though, don't do this to a leased piece of equipment.

Now if you will excuse me I am going to sit back and get a lesson in DVB from P Smith and Hokie Engineer.

 

[Smith P.]

What was interesting - JohnH always use the tables (data) but never been suppressed.

 

[BoisePaul]

I was in the middle of stating that very fact when the thread got closed. Message went into oblivion.

 

[goaliebob99]

Yep thats what got me banned over there.. it was a point prooven.. that earned my lifetime bann... hey wheres the garys artical on the 411's?

 

[goaliebob99]

nevermind it would help if i read everying in the fourm first LOL

 

[KyDave]

I'm actually surprised that Chicago locals ARE mpeg4 - I thought they were still waiting on a new encoder?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

According to someone (who happens to be a staff member of another site who has a 622) the problem with MPEG4 at the moment is massive microblocking, sound always out of sync, slow channel changing and a few other issues.

On the good news from this person is the MPEG2 portion of the box works flawlessly.

 

[GeorgeLV]

According to someone (who happens to be a staff member of another site who has a 622) the problem with MPEG4 at the moment is massive microblocking, sound always out of sync, slow channel changing and a few other issues.

On the good news from this person is the MPEG2 portion of the box works flawlessly.

Except for the massive microblocking, those sound like the same complaints DirecTV had when the hd locals were first rolled out.

 

[The Big Wood]

I saw your posting of that, which is exciting news. If the 411/211 can be modified with a firewire port then I am guessing that it should not be too hard to do the same with a 622 when they are finally released.

Hmmm, this finding should add another month or two to the delay of the 622...so that Dish can remove this capability!

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

When Dish showed me the MPEG4 at CES (Which was a MPEG4 feed of Rush HD) I saw lots of picture stuffering, freezing, and lots of blocks. It was not a pretty picture by any means.

Dish is scheduled to get updated MPEG Encoders which they hope clear the problem, so it might not be an issue with the 622, lets give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

[MacKenzieIII]

So if I am reading this info right then I could get HD locals on my 811 today if DISH would only change the header info? Between all the problems with install dates I don't understand why more people arn't talking about this (yes I know the rumor that this would be the case has been posted here for a while now).

I don't suppose there is any way to get this data public enough to shame DISH into turning the channels on for the legacy HD recivers until true Mpeg4 is out?

 

[tnsprin]

Example 1: Existing Mpeg2 channel (UltraHD)

...
Example 3: Mpeg4/AVC channel (Chicago Local HD)

Program Number: 6312
PCR on PID 4130 (0x1022)
PMT Version: 0
Service name: WLS

Stream Type: 0x1b H.264 Video
Elementary Stream PID 4130 (0x1022)

Stream Type: 0x81 AC-3 Audio
Elementary Stream PID 4131 (0x1023)



Notice the different stream type on the 3rd example? Ah ha! So in reality all HD receivers could view these new HD channels, except dish has blocked them from all but the ViP series. No preview, no nothin'.
...

Interesting that the last sample is in mpeg4. So if it goes live with this will mean some stations will really be broadcast in mpeg4.

 

[HDTVFanAtic]

R5000HD Modification CAN be made to the 411 AND Vip211 as per Nextcom!!!