Problem aiming Dish Coolsat 5000 Geosatpro 36"

[tif]

Being new to FTA I'm having trouble setting up my system.

I have a Geosatpro 36" dish mounted on a sg9120 motor hooked up to a coolsat 5000 platinum.

I'm a little confused with the angles on the dish and motor but have tried my best to set them according to the manuals.

I've set the Latitude on the motor and then adjusted the dish as the manual states.(dish angle=90deg. -your site latitude - declination angle) but another place in the manual it says the reading on the dish should be 40 deg - declination angle. I've tried both numbers and I can't seem to lock on to 97W. One thing I've noticed is that if I set the Latitude to 41 on the motor mount the elevation angle setting on the other side of the mount does not match what the chart in the manual says, which is 49. Which setting should I use the elevation or the latitude?

I've aimed the dish to true south and lined up the dish with the motor. The mounting pole is perfectly plumb.

I've also set the receivers settings for the lnb to single 10750 and the motor to USALS. The receiver moves the dish motor when I go to 97W

On the instructions for the dish it states to mount the lnb as far back in the mount as you can. I have the lnb skew set at 0 and have it pushed back to the edge of the white plastic front cover in the mount. (all that sticks out of the mount is the white plastic cover)

The receivers signal meter has almost no quality and 89 to high 90's for strength.

I'm not sure what else to check. All advice is welcome.

One other thing is the receiver is used. I downloaded the latest firmware from this forum and upload it without any problems. I don't think its the receiver because all the menus and editing of commands work just fine.

Thanks for all help and advice in advance.

 

[turbosat]

Tif, dish-aiming for a motorized dish is pretty complex for a newbie, as you found. I'm glad I started out with a fixed dish, aimed at one satellite, until I got the feel of how all those angles go together to locate a satellite signal-I've never had/used a meter to aim a dish. That said, sounds like you've done most everything right, just haven't hit the magic spot in the sky. It will help to be sure you have active frequencies stored in your receiver for the satellite you're trying to lock.
Check the List, top of the page, for some information on frequencies and such. If you're going for 97w, I always try to find the Russia-Today transponder, seems quite strong here, you can manually create the channel after adding the TP freq to your receiver's list, if it isn't in there. Set your motor bracket to your latitude first, on your true-south satellite.
See if you can get anything by blind-scanning THAT satellite, after checking your dish's elevation angle. Several websites have that information for your location. You may need to adjust the motor brackets up or down a little later, when you start checking how the motor tracks from one bird to another, but let it be for now. See if you can locate anything on the true south satellite, by adjusting the elevation up/down tiny amounts at a time, by scanning for channels. Let us know how it goes-it IS tedious, but worth the effort. In most cases, you won't have to worry with this part again, once you get the dish tracking the satellites! We can help you with the rest of the setup of USALS, the dish aiming program, if needed. Good luck.

 

[Mikey11]

- make SURE your post is 100% level/straight, i can not stress this enough, its VERY IMPORTANT!
- set the motors LATITUDE SCALE to your latitude....NEVER CHANGE this adjustment again!
- drive the dish/motor to your southern most satellite using USALS
- now go aim your dish at your southern most satellite that you drove it to
- when adjusting horizontally you swing the entire dish/motor assembly on the pole
- when adjusting vertically you move the DISH ONLY, NOT THE MOTOR!
- make sure you are selecting a good active TP on the satellite
- peak in the southern satellite and tighten everything up
- check other satellites across the arc using USALS
- start with your dish elevation scale at about 23-25 degrees, although this will most likely require fine tuning, i find its a good starting point for most setups

 

[tif]

- make SURE your post is 100% level/straight, i can not stress this enough, its VERY IMPORTANT!
- set the motors LATITUDE SCALE to your latitude....NEVER CHANGE this adjustment again!
- drive the dish/motor to your southern most satellite using USALS
- now go aim your dish at your southern most satellite that you drove it to
- when adjusting horizontally you swing the entire dish/motor assembly on the pole
- when adjusting vertically you move the DISH ONLY, NOT THE MOTOR!
- make sure you are selecting a good active TP on the satellite
- peak in the southern satellite and tighten everything up
- check other satellites across the arc using USALS
- start with your dish elevation scale at about 23-25 degrees, although this will most likely require fine tuning, i find its a good starting point for most setups

Yep my post is 100% level I've checked and rechecked it several times.
My latitude is 41 and I've set this on the motor which is as low as the motors scale goes.

My longitude is 76 so it looks like there is AMC 6 @ 72 and Horizons 2- SBS6 @ 74 What sat do you think would be better?

 

[tif]

Tif, dish-aiming for a motorized dish is pretty complex for a newbie, as you found. I'm glad I started out with a fixed dish, aimed at one satellite, until I got the feel of how all those angles go together to locate a satellite signal-I've never had/used a meter to aim a dish. That said, sounds like you've done most everything right, just haven't hit the magic spot in the sky. It will help to be sure you have active frequencies stored in your receiver for the satellite you're trying to lock.
Check the List, top of the page, for some information on frequencies and such. If you're going for 97w, I always try to find the Russia-Today transponder, seems quite strong here, you can manually create the channel after adding the TP freq to your receiver's list, if it isn't in there. Set your motor bracket to your latitude first, on your true-south satellite.
See if you can get anything by blind-scanning THAT satellite, after checking your dish's elevation angle. Several websites have that information for your location. You may need to adjust the motor brackets up or down a little later, when you start checking how the motor tracks from one bird to another, but let it be for now. See if you can locate anything on the true south satellite, by adjusting the elevation up/down tiny amounts at a time, by scanning for channels. Let us know how it goes-it IS tedious, but worth the effort. In most cases, you won't have to worry with this part again, once you get the dish tracking the satellites! We can help you with the rest of the setup of USALS, the dish aiming program, if needed. Good luck.

thanks turbosat I didn't think about checking the frequencies that were already stored in my receiver to see if they were correct. I'm not sure how to create one on the coolsat 5000 but will give it a try.

 

[Jim S.]

There is no satellite at 74 anymore.

Whatever satellite you're trying to aim at, make sure you have an active transponder selected, or you'll never get a quality reading.

The motor not having a latitude setting below 41 just seems wrong, from a geographical standpoint, but I don't have time right now to look up the manual for your motor to see exactly what it looks like.

 

[Mikey11]

I've set this on the motor which is as low as the motors scale goes.

you must be mistaken or confused....the scale on the motor should go well below 41 degrees....are you looking at the LATITUDE scale?

if you are really having a hard time you could put a circular LNB on the dish and aim for 77w as circular satellites are alot easier to pickup....you could use this as a reference point, when you get 77 you know you are very close....then change the LNB back to the linear one and proceed from there

 

[T4Runner]

Time for some pictures...

 

[AcWxRadar]

I figured that there was something not clarified regarding the latitude scale on the motor. I was about to suggest that there may be two scales, one for each region of latitude and I ran across this review from TRON:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/193613-wsi-9036-powermax-sg-9120-review.html

If your scroll through the posts, you will find the one where he speaks about the motor and has pictures. In the discussion and the pictures you can see that the motor has two possible latitude scales. Depending upon your site's latitude, you insert the bolts when mounting the motor to utilize the scale that is appropriate for your location's latitude.

When setting the elevation of the dish, the installation manual for the dish calls out two different methods to calculate the angle. One is based on the dish being attached to a mast (90°) and your site's latitude, which would be for a fixed point (non-motorized installation). The other references the bend in the motor tube and your site's latitude. Your dish installation manual is assuming that the motor bend is 40°, but this may or may not be so. H-H motors may have a 30, 35 or 40 degree bend in the motor tube. You must determine what this angle is from your motor installation manual and basically combine the instructions from both manuals (the dish and the motor) in order to calculate the proper dish elevation setting. The angle of the motor tube bend must be taken into account.

RADAR

 

[AcWxRadar]

When setting the whole thing up, use the angles as if you were aiming at a satellite that is at 76.0° (your precise longitude). There isn't a satellite there, but don't worry about that and just think of it theoretically. The motor should be at ZERO degrees, the LNB polariztion (rotation) should be at zero degrees, your motor latitude should be set to the same degree as your site latitude, the dish elevation should be calculated and set according to the motor manual / dish installation manual instructions (so that you take into account the motor tube bend angle, the offset angle of the dish, your site's latitude and the deviation angle).

If there was a satellite at the same orbital degree position in the sky that matches your longitude, your settings would now be perfect. There is no satellite there, right? Don't worry.
Use USALS and command the motor to drive to a known satellite position. You haven't set the azimuth (east-west) aim of the dish/motor yet. But, you have all the other angles set up. The rotation of the motor has just transferred all that data to the newly dialed in sat, even if that sat is not due south of you.

From this point on, you can select any satellite that has a reliable (consistent and strong) signal to fool around with. Don't alter any of your set angles except the azimuth (that's rotating the motor on the mast). Select a strong TP on that sat. If it is not in your current TP list for that sat, you will have to manually enter it. Monitor the signal strength and quality meter on the IRD and very gently "creep" the motor on the mast. Rotate it on the mast like a second hand on a clock and pause for a moment. Give the tuner time to lock onto any signal that it might find. Several seconds should be fine for a Coolsat 5000. If nothing is found, rotate it a little more and pause and check again.

Once you detect a signal, you can fine tune the azimuth of the whole assembly and the elevation of the dish to optimize that signal. If you have dialed it in properly, then you can command the motor via USALS to go to any other satellite in the sky and you should be nearly spot on. If you are not, you need to take some time and calibrate the angle settings better. You will be doggone close and all you will need or want to do is maximize your signal quality from all sats across the arc.

I prefer to go as far (east) as I can and still detect a viable signal. Adjust the (dish elevation) to optimize the signal. Then go as far (west) as I can and still detect a viable signal and adjust the (azimuth). Just IMPROVE the signal quality, don't fritter your time trying to maximize it. Go back and forth from one side of the arc to the other and make only one adjustment on each side of the arc.

Continue on and go to a satellite further to the east or west each time. Pick out the most prominent TPs on each satellite that you check and go to the same TP every time. You must be consistent here so that you compare apples to apples.

The procedure is tedious and it takes some patience. However, if you adhere to the procedure it will calibrate your motor properly and very accurately.

RADAR

 

[tif]

you must be mistaken or confused....the scale on the motor should go well below 41 degrees....are you looking at the LATITUDE scale?

if you are really having a hard time you could put a circular LNB on the dish and aim for 77w as circular satellites are alot easier to pickup....you could use this as a reference point, when you get 77 you know you are very close....then change the LNB back to the linear one and proceed from there

If you change the bolts on the motor to the lower ones then the lat scale does go way below 41... The upper scale starts at 41 and the lower scale tops out at 40 so depending how accurate the scale is I may need to use the bottom scale if its off 1 degree..

 

[turbosat]

tif, I never used a 5000 to aim a dish , but I do have one I use as a backup. To add transponder manually, just hit the Menu button, Installation will be highlighted. Then just Arrow right and down to Manual scan, hit ok and you'll see the Add TP button lit up at the bottom of that screen. green button I think, just push that one and you can add new tps.
As you can see, there are several ways to skin the cat, it just takes a little time to figure it all out. It's not that hard to do, I think it took me less than an hour to get my first H-H motor tracking properly, with just the tv/receiver out by the dish.

 

[tif]

tif, I never used a 5000 to aim a dish , but I do have one I use as a backup. To add transponder manually, just hit the Menu button, Installation will be highlighted. Then just Arrow right and down to Manual scan, hit ok and you'll see the Add TP button lit up at the bottom of that screen. green button I think, just push that one and you can add new tps.
As you can see, there are several ways to skin the cat, it just takes a little time to figure it all out. It's not that hard to do, I think it took me less than an hour to get my first H-H motor tracking properly, with just the tv/receiver out by the dish.

Well its day two and no luck I'm beginning to think its the receiver. I've triple checked all the angles and my mounting mast is 90 degrees in all directions. I've managed to get the quality reading on 97 w tp 12.177 to bounce up to 29 and 30 but it does not stay there. I had a friend come over with his GPS and to check true south and I was a little off with my compass so I tweaked that. I'm not sure what else to do. Maybe I'll take the motor off and just mount the dish stationary and try that.

I was going to do a factory reset on the coolsat 5000 but was wondering if all the Sats remain listed or if I would have to enter them all in again. The firmware version I'm using is dated Jun 14 2009. I was wondering if theres a newer version somewhere.

Should my receiver have a list list? I have no channels listed. But maybe thats because I'm unable to scan a satillite to add them.

 

[tif]

Time for some pictures...

Heres pictures to the GeoSatpro from different angles and one picture of True South.

Installation went great until it came time to line up the dish. I've run out of ideas. Except for maybe looking for a directv lnb. and trying that. Seems strange even when I put a sat meter I don't get any signals. Must be doing something totally wrong that I'm overlooking.

 

[cyberham]

Have you played much with adjusting your elevation? Here at 44.7 degrees N latitude, your dish looks like it is pointing too high. But you are south of me so maybe not a problem.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Well its day two and no luck I'm beginning to think its the receiver. I've triple checked all the angles and my mounting mast is 90 degrees in all directions. I've managed to get the quality reading on 97 w tp 12.177 to bounce up to 29 and 30 but it does not stay there. I had a friend come over with his GPS and to check true south and I was a little off with my compass so I tweaked that. I'm not sure what else to do. Maybe I'll take the motor off and just mount the dish stationary and try that.

I was going to do a factory reset on the coolsat 5000 but was wondering if all the Sats remain listed or if I would have to enter them all in again. The firmware version I'm using is dated Jun 14 2009. I was wondering if theres a newer version somewhere.

Should my receiver have a list list? I have no channels listed. But maybe thats because I'm unable to scan a satillite to add them.

Tif,

Regarding the firmware and the satellite list. I recommend that you use the file available here: FTAFirmware for Coolsat
You will need the CS5000 - 006 - 2009/12/23 file, the other one is for the 6000 model. If you upgrade the firmware with this file, it will have a satellite list included with some transponders, but no channels (you do have to scan for those).

The only other firmware that would be recommended would be the factory firmware from about 2005. If you bought it used, it may very well have a hackware version installed. I would install the firmware version that I mentioned to be sure, safe and legal. It also has a lot of nice perks to make setup and maintenance easier.

ADDED: Please read the guide here... http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-mpeg2-faqs/190527-how-set-up-motorized-ku-band.html

RADAR

 

[turbosat]

if you're getting even sporadic quality on 12177, did you try a blind scan of the satellite? You might land something, and if you do-then tweak the elevation a bit up or down to see if you can get a strong signal. The 5000 is fast so it won't take long to find out. If that strikes out, your idea of removing the motor for a stationary setup, is probably a good idea. Having one of those magnetic base angle meters is a plus also. Any of those angle-markings could be off by a little.

 

[AcWxRadar]

if you're getting even sporadic quality on 12177, did you try a blind scan of the satellite? You might land something, and if you do-then tweak the elevation a bit up or down to see if you can get a strong signal. The 5000 is fast so it won't take long to find out. If that strikes out, your idea of removing the motor for a stationary setup, is probably a good idea. Having one of those magnetic base angle meters is a plus also. Any of those angle-markings could be off by a little.

I second Turbo's comments here. Expressly the notion about experimenting w/o the motor. You will gain a good handle on aiming the dish if you reduce the total number of angles that you have to be concerned with.

RADAR

 

[tif]

if you're getting even sporadic quality on 12177, did you try a blind scan of the satellite? You might land something, and if you do-then tweak the elevation a bit up or down to see if you can get a strong signal. The 5000 is fast so it won't take long to find out. If that strikes out, your idea of removing the motor for a stationary setup, is probably a good idea. Having one of those magnetic base angle meters is a plus also. Any of those angle-markings could be off by a little.

I haven't tried doing a blind scan. I was under the impression that I would need more quality before doing that. I do have a angle meter. Thats what I used to level / plumb the mast. Seems if I tweak the elevation on the dish any I loose the 25 to 30 sporadic and it drops to 4 or 5.

If I go with the stationary what should I set the dish elevation at?

 

[tif]

Have you played much with adjusting your elevation? Here at 44.7 degrees N latitude, your dish looks like it is pointing too high. But you are south of me so maybe not a problem.

I have it set @ 41 on the motor and it down to 28 on the dish I have tried going down more on the motor some but when I do I don't see any improvement.