pre-amp question

[classic cartoon fan]

I would like to know about what kind of pre-amp to use with my CM 3020. I want to pick up channels out of Cincy which is 40+ miles away. Antennaweb recommends I use one, but not sure which is the best one. Is it also better to use RG6 cable instead of the regular coax cable?

 

[Jim5506]

I would like to know about what kind of pre-amp to use with my CM 3020. I want to pick up channels out of Cincy which is 40+ miles away. Antennaweb recommends I use one, but not sure which is the best one. Is it also better to use RG6 cable instead of the regular coax cable?

The CM3020 is not one of CM's better antennas. The CM3678 would be a better selection and maybe even the CM4228 because it is pretty good on channel 10 (one of your Cincy digitals - ABC) even though it is a UHF antenna.

Apart from that go with a CM 7777 pre-amp, but be sure you have no other stations nearby or it will overload your tuner and you get nothing.

RG-6 is a must, especially if you have a 50ft+ cable run, RG-59 loses too much signal at distances.

 

[classic cartoon fan]

Will it still be good enough to use the 3020 with the 7777? Kind of on a tight buget right now, but I can get the 7777 and some RG-6. What do you mean don't have other stations nearby for the amp?
Is there a good web site to get this stuff?

 

[dougruss]

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC7777

 

[homthtr]

The Best site that I know for picking your antenna is...

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx


Remember... Preamps are not magic "Magnetics" to pull in far channels.... You can only amp what you have coming in... so if the signal is week.. you will just be amplifying "snow" to make more snow... and send the snow farther... the old rule.. garbage in ... garbage out... a preamp is primarily used when you have a longer run to your distribution. Then a Distribution amp would be needed if you are going to send this antenna signal to more than one TV. Amps are best installed by a professional using a signal meter. That tells the tech exactly what size amp is needed.. if any at all. Not using a meter you are only guessing how many db's of gain that you will need. You can do this by guessing... when you start seeing herringbone lines on your tv.. you are over amping. Just like when you turn your Stereo up too high in volume. Eventually you get distortion. The Above comment on the "but be sure you have no other stations nearby" is like my situation here in Milwaukee, I do not need a preamp for any stations in milwaukee, Right off the antenna my DB's are in the +10 or higher. I've got about a 50' run from the antenna to my distribution point. Here is where I need a distribution amp. Given the +10 reading at the antenna and the 50 run I'm still at +7,+8 when I get to distribution, but then I go into a 6 way splitter. Each output on the 6 way splitter has a loss of -13db Which without an amp is just Marginal enough to have a small Distribution amp +5 - +10 before going to the 6 way splitter. After the splitter most of the runs to the individual tv's are about 75' so my signal strengths at all tv's in the house are approximately at +5db but less than +15db. On that thought let's say I want to watch Chicago from milwaukee, I can just pick up WGN here in Milwaukee.. That's about 65 Miles from the tower. My incoming signal at the antenna is about -18 to -22db which if a took a tv on the roof and hooked it up right at the antenna I would get some picuture, but with snow. Adding a Preamp will just amplify the snowy picutre. That's ok , but if the preamp is still inline when I swing the rotor to milwaukee I would be overdriving my milwaukee channels. Hope that helps a little. Best bet... Get the Best antenna suited for you area, there is a fine line between Too Little and Too much signal. Another thought is if you are just going for the digital signals I like using either the 4 bay or 8 bay (for distant stations). Most digital stations are carried on the UHF Band even though the Analog Corisponding channel is "let say channel 6" the actual Digital Channel is UHF33. Which is channel 6-1 digital. A good UHF Bay antenna might be a good solution for you if you are going for the digital channels or distant analog channels. You might want to get a local antenna expert. It will pay off in the long run. Ok... fingers are getting sore.... Good luck! Let us know how it turns out!.

 

[Rick0725]

homthtr...so true but few heed our suggestions.

the signal gathering starts at the antenna. before suggesting a preamp right now, give us your zip so we can take a look at what stations/signals are around you. fm towers can also cause problems.

the cm 3020 is part of the channel master series antennas which are under performers in it's size class compared to the high end antennas of winegard and channel master.

for example
average dbd gain
cm3020
3.6 low vhf
8.1 high vhf
9.5 uhf

hd7084P
6.3
10.3
12.05

hd8200p
7.0
11.5
13.3

If you are having difficulty with the cm 3020 at 40+ miles, it is best to move up to the better performing combos or if you are interested in uhf alone, the cm4228.

For 40+ miles suggest the hd7084P minimum or the hd8200p. If the user already owns a cm4228 and is having difficulty with ch 7-13 then suggest to add a 10 element ch7-13 yagi.

Adding an amp to an under performering antenna is done but not the best alternative.

cinncinnati has a digital transmitting on ch 10. The cm4228 may not be sufficient to receive ch 10 if the station is rated blue or puple at antenna web for your location.

I would return the cm3020 if they will allow and purchase a better performing antenna then determine what class of preamp to purchase.

In general I use the following preamps
winegard hdp269 for the suburbs
winegard ap 8700 in the 30-35 mile range (depends on signal strengths on site)
cm7777 or ap8275 greater than 35 miles (boonies)

preamps are not suggested if you have stations in yellow. if you have signal issues inside, a lower gain distribution amp is suggested.

there are many variables involved in antenna system installations. what works for one user may not work for another.

 

[classic cartoon fan]

My zip code 45381. I get the Dayton channels real well, but Cincy will show other shows and different sports boardcasts that we like to watch, the channels are snowy though and the UHF don't really come in.

After you check out my channels in this zip should I keep it or should I return and get the 3678 maybe? We also use the VHF for the regular channels BC we still use regular tvs around the house.
Thanks for helping me out. I didn't know picking up OFF air channels could be so complicated

 

[Rick0725]

dayton
yellow - uhf WKEF-DT 22.1 ABC DAYTON OH 97° 14.5 51
yellow - uhf WDTN-DT 2.1 NBC DAYTON OH 98° 14.5 50
yellow - uhf WRGT-DT 45.1 FOX DAYTON OH 97° 14.5 30
yellow - uhf WPTD-DT 16.2 PBS DAYTON OH 97° 14.8 58
yellow - uhf WHIO-DT 7.1 CBS DAYTON OH 94° 14.9 41
yellow - uhf WBDT-DT 26.1 WB SPRINGFIELD OH 97° 14.5 18

cincy
yellow - uhf WPTO-DT 14.2 PBS OXFORD OH 205° 16.3 28
blue - uhf WKRC-DT 12.1 CBS CINCINNATI OH 182° 42.6 31
blue - uhf WLWT-DT 5.1 NBC CINCINNATI OH 184° 42.1 35
violet - uhf WCET-DT 48.1 PBS CINCINNATI OH 184° 42.1 34
violet - uhf WKOI-DT 39.1 TBN RICHMOND IN 205° 16.3 39
violet - uhf WXIX-DT 19.1 FOX NEWPORT KY 186° 42.3 29
violet - vhf WCPO-DT 9.1 ABC CINCINNATI OH 182° 42.0 10

for preamps, can not use a cm7777 or an ap8700...have stations in yellow...must use a winegard hdp269

for a 1 antenna solution doubt the cm4228 will have enough gain to receive vhf ch10 at purple. The antenna web spec for high vhf purple is 6dbd. The cm4228 gain at ch 10 is about 6dbd...would be more comfortable if the cm cm4228 had a tad more gain on ch10...therefore risky.

the cm3678 would not have enough antenna gain on the uhf side to receive cincy. the average gain of the cm3678 is close to the cm3020...the cm3020 is not cutting it.

cm3678 average gain
4.7
9.6
9.6

cm3020
3.6 low vhf
8.1 high vhf
9.5 uhf

so I am leaning towards a winegard hd7084P minimum or an hd8200P with a rotor and hdp269 preamp. to be safe and conservative the hd8200p.

hd7084P
6.3
10.3
12.05

hd8200p
7.0
11.5
13.3

which will perform better than a cm3671 on uhf

cm3671
6.2
10.9
10.0

an alternative would be 2 antennas with an A-B switch
-a stationary smaller lower gain uhf aimed at dayton - cm4221 or radio shack 75u
-the higher gain antenna of your choice with rotor and hd269 amp aimed at cincy.

 

[classic cartoon fan]

Ok this info is helping me out alot. I looked on my mail and I got the cm 3020 at the solid signal site on Aug 09. Will they let me return the 3020? I was thinking about getting the hd8200p, which will work on vhf for regular TVs too I'm guessing?

 

[dougruss]

Ok this info is helping me out alot. I looked on my mail and I got the cm 3020 at the solid signal site on Aug 09. Will they let me return the 3020? I was thinking about getting the hd8200p, which will work on vhf for regular TVs too I'm guessing?

I don't think they accept Antennas for Return ?

If the antenna has already been opened up fully,it's difficult to get the Elements folded back without snapping something!

You have to call them anyway to get a RA Number from them. They'll tell you then if they will accept it !

Solid Signal Returns & Warranties

Returns
Within 30 days of receipt of your order, you may return:

Any item in its original condition that either did not fit or was a core return. The item cannot be disassembled or damaged by incorrect installation. We are not responsible for installation errors.

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No Returns will be accepted without a return authorization number.

 

[Rick0725]

The hd 8200p is a great choice...should get an hdp269 amp with it also if you will be splitting or if the runs are long....otherwise probably will not need one.

that is what I use and the pictures are perfect