One thing that I have run accross is customer's stretching the picture to fit the screen (on widescreen sets, for example, or on standard sets with widescreen images). Because they don't like the black or grey bars, ect. That makes a bad picture worse, IMO.
Poor quality using 625 for non HD on new Samsung 56" DLP???
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I don't think you have to put a "IMO" qualifier on the stretching/zooming of an SD picture making it worse. It does make it worse. That's why I noted this in my first post to this thread and what I always recommend to people. If you have a technology that doesn't burn-in, like DLP, LCOS, or LCD, then don't stretch or zoom 4:3 SD channels. If you have plasma or CRT RP, then keep the stretching at a minimum and use the graybar option on 4:3 video that is more important to you.
Seriously, try the first 6 minutes of one of the 500-series PPV SD channels. I tried it last night again and the image, in 4:3 non-stretched mode, was decent. I sure wish all of the SD channels were this good. Any degradation you see from an SD channel as compared to a PPV SD channel, is nearly all due to compression.
Seriously, try the first 6 minutes of one of the 500-series PPV SD channels. I tried it last night again and the image, in 4:3 non-stretched mode, was decent. I sure wish all of the SD channels were this good. Any degradation you see from an SD channel as compared to a PPV SD channel, is nearly all due to compression.
j0nnyhb said:
Switching to cable won't make any difference, unless they carry more HD sports programming than Dish. Watching any SD (be it satellite or cable) on a hi-def TV will be disapointing. There's a certain amount of compression done on the digital signal (for both cable and satellite) that will degrade the picture even further.
Rather than worrying about watching sports in SD, you need to concentrate on getting the most channels in HD, whether that is through Dish, your local cable co., or over-the-air via antenna (or a combo of those). Some SD channels are pretty good on my TV (510 receiver connected via S-video). My locals pretty much suck (really compressed) and sports networks aren't that great. Any effort you spend on testing one model receiver against another, or testing cable vs. satellite for SD is pretty much a waste of time. Maximize your HD, that's what you need to do
I plan on upgrading to the VIP622 eventually, but for now, I'm relying on my indoor antenna for OTA HD. Luckily, all the TV stations in my area broadcast digitally, so I usually have a TON of HD sports to choose from on the weekends (typically, 2 or 3 college football games on Saturday, 2 NFL games on Sundays, the last couple of weekends NHL in HD on NBC, some college hoops, too). If I were a hard-core college sports fan, I'd definitely dump your current Dish receiver in favor of a HD model so you can get ESPN and ESPN2 in HD. Or, if your local cable provider offers those, go that route. Don't forget, If you can't get the networks in HD over Dish or cable, try an antenna! www.antennaweb.org will get you started.
This is the exact reason I'm keeping my analog cable. My 36" HDTV looks pretty
good for watching sports on analog cable. I added an amp to the cable coming
into my house, and the analog picture is quite good on sports. Unless you want to
shell out some serious jack for a few sports channels, you will be still watching
most of your sports in SD. Use OTA HDTV for major networks, and analog cable
for the rest. I continually hear people say that a good analog cable picture will beat
the Dish TV compressed digital signal for sports, hands-down.
good for watching sports on analog cable. I added an amp to the cable coming
into my house, and the analog picture is quite good on sports. Unless you want to
shell out some serious jack for a few sports channels, you will be still watching
most of your sports in SD. Use OTA HDTV for major networks, and analog cable
for the rest. I continually hear people say that a good analog cable picture will beat
the Dish TV compressed digital signal for sports, hands-down.
A "good" analog cable will be better. Problem is finding a good one. My local Charter analog cable is not a good one.
However between getting all of the networks in OTA HD, and having ESPN, TNT, HDNET, Rave, and eventually ESPN2 and WorldSport on Dish HD, that's a lot of HD sports coverage.
However between getting all of the networks in OTA HD, and having ESPN, TNT, HDNET, Rave, and eventually ESPN2 and WorldSport on Dish HD, that's a lot of HD sports coverage.
So is it the consensus that most of the programming from Dish will not look as crisp on a HD tv such as the Samsung listed or my own JVC? If that is the case then I am glad that the majority of the TV that I watch is on the local channels(and mostly HD OTA) that I will be able to record with the 622 when I finally get it. Hopefully when Dish goes to true mpeg4 they will be able to send better quality signal with the extra bandwidth but that probably won't happen for several years.
To answer a few questions:
1) Yes, I have tried the 4:3 so it isn't as "streatched", doesn't help.
2) No to the question about Dish being the only Digital experience for this new TV. I subscribe to basic cable (not paying for digitial nor HD channels) because of high speed internet they provide - basic cable is 5 bucks more. My TV seems to be pulling the digitial channels from the cable, since i'm getting the Network HD stations they provide - does this make sense??? (and no, it isn't the OTA antenna getting them, because some are too far away and I tried rabit ears hooked into the OTA input, and only got a couple channels). I'm also getting some SD channels, and they look fine (much better than the sports channels on Dish like ESPN and ESPN2). I don't exactly know why this is happening, but I'm not complaining ;o) (at least I can test the HD capability of the TV, and it is great).
3) I will eventually maximize the HD channels I get, but even if ESPN and ESPN2 have SOME games on HD that I may want to watch, most games are NOT (I follow some specific teams, and I get College GamePlan, and these are not broadcast in HD). I will have to watch most of my teams games in SD until everything goes HD, so this is a big deal to me.
4) I understand that "going to cable" may not be any better, but my gut feeling is that it will based on some of what has been said (the bandwidth issue - maybe cable won't compress as much). And, it cannot be any worse ;o). I will probably try it and see (bump up to extended basic to get ESPN and ESPN2).
5) Finally, I still think the 625 could be causing some of my pain. I want to try the 311 just to rule it out. I can live with a less than stellar SD picture, but what I'm seeing now is beyond that, and I feel there has to be some other alternative/explaination for my specific issues. I'm pretty sure that others would NOT except what I'm seeing from ESPN or ESPN2 and brush it off as "the way it is".
I'll keep everyone up to date on how this goes ... Thanks for the help!
1) Yes, I have tried the 4:3 so it isn't as "streatched", doesn't help.
2) No to the question about Dish being the only Digital experience for this new TV. I subscribe to basic cable (not paying for digitial nor HD channels) because of high speed internet they provide - basic cable is 5 bucks more. My TV seems to be pulling the digitial channels from the cable, since i'm getting the Network HD stations they provide - does this make sense??? (and no, it isn't the OTA antenna getting them, because some are too far away and I tried rabit ears hooked into the OTA input, and only got a couple channels). I'm also getting some SD channels, and they look fine (much better than the sports channels on Dish like ESPN and ESPN2). I don't exactly know why this is happening, but I'm not complaining ;o) (at least I can test the HD capability of the TV, and it is great).
3) I will eventually maximize the HD channels I get, but even if ESPN and ESPN2 have SOME games on HD that I may want to watch, most games are NOT (I follow some specific teams, and I get College GamePlan, and these are not broadcast in HD). I will have to watch most of my teams games in SD until everything goes HD, so this is a big deal to me.
4) I understand that "going to cable" may not be any better, but my gut feeling is that it will based on some of what has been said (the bandwidth issue - maybe cable won't compress as much). And, it cannot be any worse ;o). I will probably try it and see (bump up to extended basic to get ESPN and ESPN2).
5) Finally, I still think the 625 could be causing some of my pain. I want to try the 311 just to rule it out. I can live with a less than stellar SD picture, but what I'm seeing now is beyond that, and I feel there has to be some other alternative/explaination for my specific issues. I'm pretty sure that others would NOT except what I'm seeing from ESPN or ESPN2 and brush it off as "the way it is".
I'll keep everyone up to date on how this goes ... Thanks for the help!
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I think for those people that spend the majority of their time watching SD programming, then I would always recommend an EDTV plasma. Sure HD is stunning on a 60" set, but the trade-off is the crappy SD picture. I have CBS-HD, and find that CBS is now my favorite network, even though before I got my HD and 53" set, I never ever watched CBS.
My CRT RP is pretty average on Dish SD. DVDs look great. Dish PPV looks decent. Most standard Dish SD channels are mediocre, sometimes good, sometimes bad. This holds true regardless of whether I use an 811, 942, or 4900.
Just tonight I pulled up a recording I made off of one of the TMC channels about a month ago, Ju-On. To my surprise, it was good, nearly as good as a PPV channel. So I guess I got lucky in that Dish was giving TMC a lot of bandwidth that night.
Maybe Charlie phoned in and told the techs that he was going to watch Ju-On that night.
Just tonight I pulled up a recording I made off of one of the TMC channels about a month ago, Ju-On. To my surprise, it was good, nearly as good as a PPV channel. So I guess I got lucky in that Dish was giving TMC a lot of bandwidth that night.
Maybe Charlie phoned in and told the techs that he was going to watch Ju-On that night.
I have the same problem with my DVR 625 and my 61" Sony HD ready projection TV paired with the DISH 1000 and DPP twin. The image (especially motion) is very grainy and washed out. I previously had a DVR 510 paired with a DISH 500 and legacy quad and the image looked great. I think that I am going to try to set up my old dish with the old LNB and compare the two pictures. Even when I hook up my 510 to the DPP LNB I get a bad picture. I am starting to think that it has something to do with the LNB???
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