Polarity not changing - ASC1 & Amiko A3

[chc59]

As noted, polarity is not changing. Setting up a new ASC1 to work with A3. Was running A3 with 4DTV 922 receiver for position and skew control. A3 getting all sats OK and populated A3's channel list. Here's what I've done.

Moved dish to 135 sat using 922 (Far West sat for me)
Replaced 922 with ASC1
Adjusted skew H & V on ASC1 using values used on 922. ( H 60, V -30) ASC1 0000. Position 01.
Peaked dish on known good Vertical xpndr using A3 and saved as Position 01 on A3.
Changed to a known good Horizontal xpndr (HSN mux). No joy.
Changed LNB setting on ASC1 from 18/13v to 13/18V. Saved. Again no joy. (Don't know why I changed it)
Changed back to 18/13 and saved.
Moved dish to 133 degree using sensor count difference recorded from 922.
Only one mux in channel list for 133 and that's Horizontal. No joy still. ASC1 skew at 60/-30. Tried to peak Nada.
Went back to 135. Changed skew values using ASC remote. Value changes on readout and signal varies.
Looks like the wiring is ok for the polarotor. Gave up.

Either I'm missing something or doing something wrong, or ASC1 is defective. I have power reset the ASC1 several times and rechecked the saved values.

Any help would be appreciated.

Joe

 

[Magic Static]

A typical alignment of the Feed horn would result in the ASC1 skew at 45/-45. Set LNB voltage to 18V

 

[KE4EST]

Was gonna suggest the same thing. If you have a separate feedhorn and LNB with a co-rotor or similar, set your voltage to 18V all the time. The skew controller will take care of the rest. 18/13 is only for a more modern LNBF assembly using voltage to switch polarity.

 

[chc59]

A typical alignment of the Feed horn would result in the ASC1 skew at 45/-45. Set LNB voltage to 18V

Magic,

I thought that the 13/18 volt was used by the ASC1 to interpret the polarity switch. But, I tried your suggestion. Set to 18V, the Vertical signal disappeared. Still no Horizontal xpndrs.

Regarding the 45/-45 skew, right or wrong My receivers have bee using 60/-30 for well over 20 years for a number of receivers.

Joe

 

[KE4EST]

Correct that is the reason to be able to change it. If everybody's setup was 45/-45 there would be no need to adjust it.

 

[chc59]

Was gonna suggest the same thing. If you have a separate feedhorn and LNB with a co-rotor or similar, set your voltage to 18V all the time. The skew controller will take care of the rest. 18/13 is only for a more modern LNBF assembly using voltage to switch polarity.

KE4,

Saw your post. You can see from my response to Magic, 18v shuts down everything. No Vertical, no Horizontal.

Yes, I have an ADL feedhorn with a co-rotor and Norsat C-Band and Ku lnb's. Started in this game back in '84 with a Chaparral with Cal-Amp C-Band LNA. Then switched over to C and Ku LNB's, just upgrading to cooler LNB's from time to time. Had the ADL since the switch to LNB's.

With 2 votes for 18v, guess I'll try 18v again. Reset ASC1 and A3.

Joe

 

[KE4EST]

Set the ASC-1 to 18V. Leave receiver set for 18/13V.

 

[Titanium]

I am confident that the ASC1 is working properly as it was tested prior to shipment. Let's move forward on that assumption.

Look inside the feedhorn when changing between horizontal and vertical using the ASC1 menu, does the probe rotate? If so, the ASC1 is sending correct information and the probe is moving.

If a polarity is selected on the ASC1 menu, this is placing a manual override for that polarity. Doesn't matter what polarity is selected on the A3 if the ASC1 polarity is in manual mode. Parking the ASC1 menu on position counter or the motor number will allow automatic polarity switching via the A3.

 

[primestar31]

I remember the probe on my old feedhorn FREEZING in the winter, and having to replace the motor several times over the years. I've seen the servos on Ebay for very cheap prices. But Brian is right, first thing to do is to look up into the feedhorn, and have someone in the house change polarities a few times to make sure it isn't stuck due to the weather.

 

[Titanium]

Make sure that the A3's install menu for 133w is set correctly for 13/18 automatic switching and each existing transponder has been previously scanned or saved to be the correct (actual) polarity.

This didn't use to be important with your previous set-up, because the 4DTV selected the polarity. Now the A3 selects the polarity. Often, users who used slaved STBs never bothered with changing the polarity on the receiver and will only change polarity with the legacy IRD.

 

[chc59]

Make sure that the A3's install menu for 133w is set correctly for 13/18 automatic switching and each existing transponder has been previously scanned or saved to be the correct (actual) polarity.

This didn't use to be important with your previous set-up, because the 4DTV selected the polarity. Now the A3 selects the polarity. Often, users who used slaved STBs never bothered with changing the polarity on the receiver and will only change polarity with the legacy IRD.

Here is a summary:

• A3 placed on sat @ 135 Deg. Active FTA xpndrs on this sat as well as all sats previously scanned in using A3 with DSR922 receiver for position and polarity prior to install of ASC1. Active vertical xpndr rescanned to insure on correct sat. Signal Strength 89/72. No signal now on previously active HSN mux. Voltage set at 13/18V. Motor saved at Position 01.
• ASC1 cursor at Position 01 in Menu and saved, twice. (Automatic Mode) Actuator positioned @ 0023 ( 23 counts off of mechanical West limit of Actuator) LNB set at 13/18v. Skew set at 60/-30. Cycled power, came back no change.
  
• Wiring at back of ASC1 rechecked. Skew manually changed plus and minus using ASC1 Remote while watching Signal Strength weaken and strengthen accordingly to insure Polarotor was moving. The probe is apparently working.
• Several sats were successfully viewed on Saturday morning prior to the changeover to the ASC1. In fact, H and V polarity xpndrs were viewed on 135 prior to the chabgeover to the ASC1 after lunch.
• In preparation for the changeover to the ASC1, using the A3 and the DSR 922 I charted every active sat/xpndr from 87W to 135W listing the actuator position and the H & V skew settings including the crazy setting for 103W Ku (NBC). All but one has 60/-30 skew and that one is the 103W Ku. I planned to use this list to set up the A3- ASC1 combo. Same actuator, same sensor, same counts.

So, A3 apparently set up properly (worked ok with DSR922). ASC1 apparently set up properly and in Automatic mode. Polarotor apparently working ok. Still NO JOY. I'm confused, upset, and discouraged. Been using and liking the A3. Don't want to go back to the DSR922. Like the idea of the receiver controlling the movement and skew. I've put up with having to use the 922 for a number of years over several DVB receivers. (Azbox Elite, Azbox ME, MicroHD to name a few.)

Joe

 

[Titanium]

The ASC1 LNB voltage setting must be set to "Fixed 18v" to provide correct voltage for a LNB. The ASC1 LNB voltage setting of 13/18 or 18/13 would not be correct for a LNB, which requires fixed 18Vdc for optimal operation. The 13/18 and 18/13 settings are used with LNBFs.

I believe the problem is an incorrect skew setting for both polarities. Sounds like the feedhorn was not installed with the servo centered position set at the 12 o'clock position and is likely 15 degrees off. No problem other than making more work to adjust the skew offset from the standard +45/-45 default setting.

One part that I don't understand is how you determined the ASC1 skew polarity offset setting to be 60/-30, since no channel was received after the ASC1 was swapped? Usually the skew angle is set by viewing the signal quality readings on both a horizontal and a vertical transponder. If this is the setting because "that is what it always has been", it is likely not correct.

The 4DTV polarity/skew offset from the zero position could be reversed. If your system was installed only with this 4DTV IRD, you would have not observed this as it "looked" normal to the DSR922. We used to have to rotate the feedhorn 90 degrees when installing LNBFs with a 4DTV or often reverse the the servo setting offsets from positive to negative / negative to positive.

When the A3 is placed on 135w / 3900 / Horizontal / 29270, does the ASC1 menu display a check-mark to the right of the Horizontal polarity item? If so, the A3 is sending the correct signal voltage to the ASC1 and the probe inside the feedhorn should be angled to the horizontal plane minus the skew offset. If the probe is angled to a vertical plane minus the skew offset, the polarity setting is not correctly set in the ASC1 menu.

Select the A3 Horizontal polarity menu and change the skew angle setting while watching the A3 signal quality meter on this TP. Does the Signal Quality meter reading indicate a lock at any time during this rotation?

 

[chc59]

The ASC1 LNB voltage setting must be set to "Fixed 18v" to provide correct voltage for a LNB. The ASC1 LNB voltage setting of 13/18 or 18/13 would not be correct for a LNB, which requires fixed 18Vdc for optimal operation. The 13/18 and 18/13 settings are used with LNBFs.

I believe the problem is an incorrect skew setting for both polarities. Sounds like the feedhorn was not installed with the servo centered position set at the 12 o'clock position and is likely 15 degrees off. No problem other than making more work to adjust the skew offset from the standard +45/-45 default setting.

One part that I don't understand is how you determined the ASC1 skew polarity offset setting to be 60/-30, since no channel was received after the ASC1 was swapped? Usually the skew angle is set by viewing the signal quality readings on both a horizontal and a vertical transponder. If this is the setting because "that is what it always has been", it is likely not correct.

The 4DTV polarity/skew offset from the zero position could be reversed. If your system was installed only with this 4DTV IRD, you would have not observed this as it "looked" normal to the DSR922. We used to have to rotate the feedhorn 90 degrees when installing LNBFs with a 4DTV or often reverse the the servo setting offsets from positive to negative / negative to positive.

When the A3 is placed on 135w / 3900 / Horizontal / 29270, does the ASC1 menu display a check-mark to the right of the Horizontal polarity item? If so, the A3 is sending the correct signal voltage to the ASC1 and the probe inside the feedhorn should be angled to the horizontal plane minus the skew offset. If the probe is angled to a vertical plane minus the skew offset, the polarity setting is not correctly set in the ASC1 menu.

Select the A3 Horizontal polarity menu and change the skew angle setting while watching the A3 signal quality meter on this TP. Does the Signal Quality meter reading indicate a lock at any time during this rotation?

OK, Took the night off last night to watch the Bucs win. Back at it.

Set voltage at 18v in A3 and ASC1
LNB set to C-Band (5150)
Set Skew to +45H/-45V
Positioned dish for 135W.
Using a strong signal, peaked dish. Scanned a bunch of new channels, mostly Scrambled. Using Lyngsat. verified that these channels are on 135W. So, I'm on the correct sat..
BUT, The strong signal xpndrs are only Vertical xpndrs. No active Horizontal xpndrs showing a signal..Furthermore, when on those active Vertical xpndrs, the ASC1 display is pointing to Horizontal not Vertical.. If I cursor the ASC1 menu down to Vertical, the signal disappears. If I change the A3 transponder selection to a Horizontal transponder, the Skew pointer in the ASC1 still points to Horizontal. As I noted in a previous post, varying the skew angle on the active transponders varies the signal strength accordingly.This indicates to me that is polarotor is rotating.
ASC1 Display cursor is on Sat 01.
Looks like either A3 is not sending correct data to ASC1 or ASC1 is not interpreting the data from the A3.
Could I have inadvertently set something in either unit incorrectly?

Appreciate your help and patience.

Joe

 

[primestar31]

The A3 should not be set to 18volts, leave it normal! Just the ASC1 is set to 18volts.

 

[chc59]

The A3 should not be set to 18volts, leave it normal! Just the ASC1 is set to 18volts.

When I set the A3 to 13/18V and leave the ASC1 at 18V, the Vertical xpndrs disappear. Still no Joy on Horizontal.

After my recent post, I manually moved the ASC1 Skew pointer to Vertical. Horizontal xpndrs came in strong. So, I can get both H and V xpnders if I manually change it on the ASC1's display. H and V still backwards, though.

Joe

 

[Titanium]

Actually this makes perfect sense if you understand how your settings are affecting the operation.

Your A3 LNB voltage setting is wrong and should not be 18v. Change the A3 LNB setting to 13/18 "automatic mode". The current A3 LNB voltage setting is locking the polarity voltage to be fixed in one polarity and this will not change if you change between horizontal and vertical transponders because you have manually overridden the A3 automatic polarity switching when you change the LNB voltage to 18v. The current A3 18v setting is instructing the ASC1 not to switch polarities even when you change transponders to vertical.

If the feedhorn probe is currently aimed vertical when the ASC1 is displaying Horizontal, this is because the feedhorn has either been set 90 degrees out of rotation (like we previously discussed about the 4DTV skew being different) or the ASC1 skew offsets are reversed (minus/plus).

The best thing to do at this point is to sychronize the feedhorn to a normal servo "0" position. Set the ASC1 skew offset to zero and make sure that the probe is correctly angled at 45 degrees (between vertical and horizontal when at the apex of the arc @ true South). I am sure it is not currently set properly as you previously needed to set the skew offset to -60/30.

Once you have the correct settings on the A3 / ASC1 and have the feedhorn angled correctly, this will all work fine! I know it can be frustrating, but this is only happening because settings are not synchronized.

 

[chc59]

Actually this makes perfect sense if you understand how your settings are affecting the operation.

Your A3 LNB voltage setting is wrong and should not be 18v. Change the A3 LNB setting to 13/18 "automatic mode". The current A3 LNB voltage setting is locking the polarity voltage to be fixed in one polarity and this will not change if you change between horizontal and vertical transponders because you have manually overridden the A3 automatic polarity switching when you change the LNB voltage to 18v. The current A3 18v setting is instructing the ASC1 not to switch polarities even when you change transponders to vertical.

If the feedhorn probe is currently aimed vertical when the ASC1 is displaying Horizontal, this is because the feedhorn has either been set 90 degrees out of rotation (like we previously discussed about the 4DTV skew being different) or the ASC1 skew offsets are reversed (minus/plus).

The best thing to do at this point is to sychronize the feedhorn to a normal servo "0" position. Set the ASC1 skew offset to zero and make sure that the probe is correctly angled at 45 degrees (between vertical and horizontal when at the apex of the arc @ true South). I am sure it is not currently set properly as you previously needed to set the skew offset to -60/30.

Once you have the correct settings on the A3 / ASC1 and have the feedhorn angled correctly, this will all work fine! I know it can be frustrating, but this is only happening because settings are not synchronized.

OK, Brian, Starting to make sense. With the weather here in OH (snow, ice, 10deg F), it will be difficult to go out to the dish to rotate the feedhorn. But at least I should be able to get things inside working electrically.

With the A3 set to 13/18V (Automatic Mode) and saved, the ASC1 Cursor sitting on Sat 01 (also Automatic Mode waiting for the A3), the arrow on the right side of the ASC1's display should point to the Horizontal Skew setting for A3 Horizontal xpndrs, and the arrow should move down to the Vertical Skew setting.for A3 Vertical xdndrs. Correct? With the feedhorn currently out of correct orientation there will be no signals but the Skew pointer should still move from H to V. Is this correct? But,the pointer on the right side of the screen does not move automatically off of the Horizontal Skew setting regardless of a H or a V transponder.

 

[Titanium]

Correct, the indicator should move between polarities when the A3 voltage changes between 13/18Vdc. Certainly odd that changing the A3 from a horizontal TP to a vertical TP does not trigger the ASC1 to switch polarity.. The polarity switching function was operation checked prior to shipment. Never have observed this issue before if the STB is switching voltages. Not saying that this couldn't be the first, but seems unlikely due to the circuit design.

I would start by performing a Global Reset on the ASC1 then power cycle. Had you installed a custom Satellite List on the ASC1? If you had installed a custom satellite list, do not reinstall before testing

Is the ASC1 input line voltage setting on 115Vac?

Do you have a voltage meter to test the A3 LNB port? The voltage reading should be 13Vdc on a vertical transponder and 18Vdc on a horizontal (+/- 10%). If this voltage not switching, reset the A3 and reinstall a fresh NA Satellite list then test function.

With the A3 disconnected from the ASC1, power cycle the ASC1. When the ASC1 is repowered, does the display default to Vertical or Horizontal..

 

[chc59]

Correct, the indicator should move between polarities when the A3 voltage changes between 13/18Vdc. Certainly odd that changing the A3 from a horizontal TP to a vertical TP does not trigger the ASC1 to switch polarity.. The polarity switching function was operation checked prior to shipment. Never have observed this issue before if the STB is switching voltages. Not saying that this couldn't be the first, but seems unlikely due to the circuit design.

I would start by performing a Global Reset on the ASC1 then power cycle. Had you installed a custom Satellite List on the ASC1? If you had installed a custom satellite list, do not reinstall before testing

Is the ASC1 input line voltage setting on 115Vac?

Do you have a voltage meter to test the A3 LNB port? The voltage reading should be 13Vdc on a vertical transponder and 18Vdc on a horizontal (+/- 10%). If this voltage not switching, reset the A3 and reinstall a fresh NA Satellite list then test function.

With the A3 disconnected from the ASC1, power cycle the ASC1. When the ASC1 is repowered, does the display default to Vertical or Horizontal..

Back in business, finally. Thank all who responded for your expertise and patience., especially Brian.

Power cycled the ASC1 when I got home from work. Appeared to be holding the correct polarities when changing xpndrs and, in fact was and is holding. While on 135W I adjusted the skew to see if I could pick up signals without going out to the dish to rotate the feedhorn. Signals peaked at -45H/+45V. Moved through the arc from 135W to 83W, setting sat positions. I had previously loaded active transponders while I was using the DSR922 for position and skew. Interesting thing was that the position values for the ASC1 are exactly half of the sensor numbers that I had written down from the DSR922. For instance, the sat at 121W was at position (sensor count) 211 on the DSR922. That same sat on the ASC1 is at Position 106. Once I figured this out, moving to each of the next sats was a breeze. It was right on the money for each sat. No hunting. I'll backup everything tomorrow after work. So, in summary, setting up an A3 with an ASC1 positioner for a BUD system with separate C-Band/ Ku- Band lnb's goes like this.

Before removing old receiver, like a 4DTV DSR920 or 922, make a list of the sat positions (actuator counts).
Move the dish to eastern or western most sat before shutting down old receiver.
Install A3 and ASC1. Set lnb type on A3 C- 5150, Ku - 10750.
Set 22khz switch, if used, to correct On/Off to match lnb's.
Set lnb voltage on A3 to 13/18V
Set Motor type to Diseqc 1.2
Set lnb voltage on ASC1 to 18V fixed.
Load some active transponders into the A3if not already loaded.
Starting on a sat, pick an active transponder. (Use Lyngsat or similar to determine)
Sitting on that transponder, adjust skew values on ASC1 as necessary.
Save motor position on A3. Make sure that the A3 and ASC1 are showing the same sat number, 01, 02, 03, etc.
Referencing the position numbers from the old receiver, move the dish using the ASC1, East or West, from Sat to Sat. Remember to save the Motor position in the A3.
Go back and check your work.Suggest doing it on the first couple of sats loaded to make sure you are doing it correctly.
Backup your work.

Joe

 

[y2k2000]

I have similar problem as in post # 15. I have Azbox Ultra (9.5402). I have C-Band 10 ft mesh with ADL (LNB). I just added fix dish (97W Ku) to setup and I have Invacom QPH-031. I have ASC1 set to normally Fixed 18v for C Band. This works well for C Band. When I add QPH-031 (LNBF), I lose all Vertical Transponders. Setup in AZbox is for 1/12v. Hoping to resolve this situation, otherwise I have to keep switching LNB Type Setup on ASC1.