Point of entry surge protection technical question

[Umbra_Vipera]

This may open a can of worms but I'm in need of some advice.

I'm a systems administrator (i.e. computer geek) and have helped a large number of people that have experienced power surges wiping out their computers via phone lines. There is ZERO question in my mind about placing surge protection at the point of entry for my phone/data service. (Behind the phone company's box prior to reaching my distribution point.) My question is about doing the same for my D* install.

A couple of important points. This will be a Slimline dish install and my intent is to place the multiplexer in the house. I also intend to use a grounding block outside of the house tied directly to the #6 ground wire I installed for the phone company's box (tied to the house service).

The product that I'm looking at is an American Power Conversion PVR module for a "rack mount" surge box. The details on the surge suppressors are as follows:

Model PVR (Digital Cable Protection)​

The PVR module protects the cable input to video/cable/modem equipment against surges and spikes caused by lightning and electrostatic discharge (ESD). It is compatible with cable television (CATV), digital satellite system (DSS), television, video cassette recorder (VCR), cable modem and TV antenna equipment. It is also compatible with many DSS units having operating voltages below 26 volts DC. The PVR is recognized by Underwriter’s Laboratories (UL® ) as a secondary protector.

Item Specification
EN 50083-4, Attenuation and Return Loss
<6 dB from 54-550 MHz and
<8 dB 550-1002 MHz​

Ingress Susceptance EIA 23 (-26) dBmV
Radiated Emissions 15 dBmV 360 degree
Frequency Range 1 MHz though 2.0 GHz
Insertion Loss 0 dB to 3.0 dB over rated frequency range
Agency Approvals UL 497B, FCC 47 CFR 15, CLB-47 CFR Part 15 Subpart C​

According to the Slimline install manual the dish uses a frequence range of 250 MHz to 2150 MHz. This obviously places the surge protector "out of spec" for the dish but raises the following questions.​

Does the dish actually use frequencies above 2 GHz (2000 MHz)?
If so, does anyone have any recommended solutions or is surge protection even needed?​

Thanks in advance!​

 

[grydlok]

It's a multi switch. You should be fine as long as don't plug any RG6 cable directly into the surge box. Bonding your system(GB) to the house ground should be sufficient.

 

[Doctor Bob]

You might get a clearer picture of surge protection, at http://www.panamax.com , because they have what I consider to be one of the best lines of Surge Protection on the market. As a Systems Administrator, you know the importance of surge protection, and the Satellite Receiver is nothing more than a sensitive Computing device, and IMO needs to be protected. Hope this helps!!!

This may open a can of worms but I'm in need of some advice.

I'm a systems administrator (i.e. computer geek) and have helped a large number of people that have experienced power surges wiping out their computers via phone lines. There is ZERO question in my mind about placing surge protection at the point of entry for my phone/data service. (Behind the phone company's box prior to reaching my distribution point.) My question is about doing the same for my D* install.

A couple of important points. This will be a Slimline dish install and my intent is to place the multiplexer in the house. I also intend to use a grounding block outside of the house tied directly to the #6 ground wire I installed for the phone company's box (tied to the house service).

The product that I'm looking at is an American Power Conversion PVR module for a "rack mount" surge box. The details on the surge suppressors are as follows:

Model PVR (Digital Cable Protection)​

The PVR module protects the cable input to video/cable/modem equipment against surges and spikes caused by lightning and electrostatic discharge (ESD). It is compatible with cable television (CATV), digital satellite system (DSS), television, video cassette recorder (VCR), cable modem and TV antenna equipment. It is also compatible with many DSS units having operating voltages below 26 volts DC. The PVR is recognized by Underwriter’s Laboratories (UL® ) as a secondary protector.

Item Specification
EN 50083-4, Attenuation and Return Loss
<6 dB from 54-550 MHz and
<8 dB 550-1002 MHz​

Ingress Susceptance EIA 23 (-26) dBmV
Radiated Emissions 15 dBmV 360 degree
Frequency Range 1 MHz though 2.0 GHz
Insertion Loss 0 dB to 3.0 dB over rated frequency range
Agency Approvals UL 497B, FCC 47 CFR 15, CLB-47 CFR Part 15 Subpart C​

According to the Slimline install manual the dish uses a frequence range of 250 MHz to 2150 MHz. This obviously places the surge protector "out of spec" for the dish but raises the following questions.​

Does the dish actually use frequencies above 2 GHz (2000 MHz)?
If so, does anyone have any recommended solutions or is surge protection even needed?​

Thanks in advance!​

 

[Umbra_Vipera]

Thanks for the replies! I'll check into the Panamax products.

 

[red hazard]

Panamax

Thanks for the replies! I'll check into the Panamax products.

You might want to check out the thread I started regarding PANAMAX.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=95865&highlight=panamax

 

[Todd Humphrey]

Panamax!!

The most important aspect of good surge suppression is to make sure that ALL pathways to ground go through your surge suppression network. A surge suppressor does not suppress surges, they actually route to ground any over voltage. At about 300Volts devices called MOSFETS create a path to ground. They divert the over voltage to ground. Since your equipment chassis is connected to ground, the over voltage potential is on your equipments chassis. ANY path that voltage can find to ground will setup current flow. If that path does not include the surge suppressor, you will have un-wanted current.
In the case of a computer, that current flow may be through the chassis to the modem/network card to reach the CATV/Telco ground.
It is not always the case that a power surge comes INTO the computer from the modem/network. Sometimes the surge LEFT the computer through the modem/network. Same results. The weakest link pops.

If your TV uses a grounded power plug, then over voltage on your DTV rec chassis will have a path to ground through the cables that connect the rec to the TV and down the TV power cord. If you have EVERY device connected to your receiver, and every device connected to them routed through surge suppressors, all current flow will be diverted by the surge suppressors.

If you send a signal through a coax to another TV in the house, that coax also needs to be protected by a surge suppressor at the receiver.

Every electrical path into and out of a receiver must be routed though the same surge suppressor or units of equal quality.

It is also critical that the outlet you plug your surge suppressor into is a grounded outlet. No ground, no place to send the over voltage. There is on condition I see alot. Many surge suppressor models have built in indicators to tell you if they are working. To work they must be grounded. They test for the ground by looking for continuity across the neutral and ground paths of the electrical outlet.

If you go out and remove your electrical ground connection (please do not) your electrical system will still have that continuity across the neutral and ground wires, and the suppressor unit will indicate normal operation when in fact, your system is not protected. The over voltage will go to the ground wire and charge the ground wires in the home. This includes EVERY grounded equipment chassis in your home.

This can cause a couple problems. Satellite installers who install ground rods and do not bond those rods back to the primary electrical ground system, create an earth ground that the over voltage finds VERY appealing. The over voltage flows through your satellite receiver, to reach the coax that is grounded via the installers ground rod. This is why no installer should ever install a ground rod, unless they bond that ground rod to the existing electrical ground. If the home is not grounded, the installer will discover the problem and corrective action can take place. If there is no electrical ground, then you should NEVER install a ground rod. That ground rod will become the ground for the entire home.

This same problem can occur when the surge suppressor is plugged into an outlet that is not grounded. Even though the service panel is grounded, some times outlets are not.
If you plug a surge suppressor into an ungrounded outlet, but plug in a satellite receiver (with a three prong plug) , and that receiver is connected to a coax with a good ground at POE, a surge suppressor will indicate normal operation. The surge unit will sense continuity across ground and neutral and think everything is OK. The continuity is across the neutral wire and the satellite receivers ground coax. Any surge will be sent through the receivers power cord, through the coax to reach the ground. Again, if the installer installs an isolated ground rod, the surge suppressor will send the current through the coax to reach the satellite earth ground.
Even in a home correctly wired and grounded, an isolated ground rod can provide a different path to ground that could result in current flow. This is the main reason ALL grounding electrodes must be bonded together with #6 copper. With every electrode at the same potential, unwanted over voltages can be managed properly.

HUGE TIP!!!
If the power outlet providing power to your receiver is NOT grounded (test with outlet tester) do not ground your coax if the receiver uses a three prong plug.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

In reviewing the original post, I realized I missed one point. Installing a surge suppressor at the telco POE for your network lines is fine for protecting from EMI and RFI issues that can find their way into your network, but you also must protect every computer and every device connected to your computers with quality surge suppression, especially if those devices use a grounded power plug.
Think of it this way. Your entire computer or TV network, this includes every device connected, must be under a sphere of influence of surge protectors. Any single opportunity for current to skip pass a surge protector, reduces the effectiveness of surge protection.
If you let it, this can drive you nuts trying to plug all the holes. Don't go to crazy. With a good plan, you can provide good protection.
The best idea is whole house protection. Surge suppression at the POE for ALL incoming conductors. Power, phone, and cable or satellite.