I bumped trouble was I bump it to hard. I went in and turned on the tone beeper and since I use a wireless headset went back out and bumped it back till the beeps were really close. Now I have on all channels the lowest is 60 and the highest is 65, best so far. Somebody break my leg if I ever go up there again. Thanks for your help. I was getting really frustrated and thinking about buying a sathero 500 [which costs more than the dish] but your advise and everyone's encouragement really helped? Thanks againElkview, if you are receiving 12177 but not 11842, then the reflector is to the eastern edge of the satellite signal. You could use other transponders instead of 12177, but we know that 12177 does not have adjacent satellite interference and 11842 does. Place the STB on 11842 and bump the dish west until you get a signal quality lock. Don't peak on either frequency or you will lose channels. Balance to get best signal quality read from both. Brian Gohl Titanium Satellite