Pioneer vs Yamaha Questions/Models

[gadgtfreek]

Got a quick reply, only an hour and 15 after they technically opened.

• ?Room is about 3300sqft, which falls under your “3” category, and that appears the VTF-2 is just right for me Can you send a detailed sketch of your room?
• ?My sub sits beside my ent. center, with a wall to its back. I would most likely use the sub with one port open for max extension (100% movies and I figure this is best), so how far does the port need to be from the wall? All you need is about 3" of space. Actually, I would go for two ports open for movies. Most movies do not go below 25 Hz, and the higher headroom in two ports open mode is helpful for the loud explosions. You can always set it to one port open for the movies that has extension below 25 Hz (easy enough to plug up one port), but for most movies, both ports open will yield lower distortion.
• ?Woofer is firing down into carpet/pad, over concrete foundation. Is this OK, or does it need MDF underneath (old cheaper sub did) No need for MDF.
• ?I have a Denon AVR, with Audyssey. I assume sub setup is normal as any other. Place it, set gain/volume to 50%, put sub in the mode I want to use (max ext), and then run Audyssey? I would set the volume on the sub to about 9 o'clock, one port open, EQ1, Q=0.7 for the Audyssey run, and then change it to EQ2, both ports open and fine tune by ear with the Q control.

Their answers in red, and I just sent them a drawing of my layout. I gotta admit, the Audyssey answer looks like chinese to me

 

[jayn_j]

They are effectively saying that they like their Bass hotter than audessey sets it. Their solution is to set it using audessey and then punch it up by adding the port. Not sure what their EQ is, but I suspect it is a multi pole high pass and they are running the Audessey with higher frequencies passing through and then lowering the cutoff for a stronger bass.

Can't say I disagree. I think the audessey on my set is weak on the sub and also sets too low a level on the surrounds. (I forget. You did buy the surrounds, right? If not, stop talking about subs and buy those instead)

 

[teachsac]

Best sub I've ever owned is the BG Radia 210i. Two 10" Kevlar woofers. Cleanest sound I've ever heard. I use two in my HT setup. They are discontinued, but if you can find one, you won't be disappointed.

S~

 

[teachsac]

(I forget. You did buy the surrounds, right? If not, stop talking about subs and buy those instead)

haha. I agree. Get some really good fronts that you'll be happy with for a long time and then go separates. I haven't replaced speakers in I don't know how long (at least 7 years).

S~

 

[gadgtfreek]

They are effectively saying that they like their Bass hotter than audessey sets it. Their solution is to set it using audessey and then punch it up by adding the port. Not sure what their EQ is, but I suspect it is a multi pole high pass and they are running the Audessey with higher frequencies passing through and then lowering the cutoff for a stronger bass.

Can't say I disagree. I think the audessey on my set is weak on the sub and also sets too low a level on the surrounds. (I forget. You did buy the surrounds, right? If not, stop talking about subs and buy those instead)

Yeah, some of that is still Chinese to me

If got the Def Tech Promonitor speakers, and am now running 5.1. All of that is good, I just need a better sub. The sub I intend to use when we build our house, probably add a second. As far as the Def Tech system, no need to upgrade it because I plan all new gear for the PJ room.

 

[gadgtfreek]

OK, just got off the phone with HSU. VTF-2 MK4 shipping today, should be here middle of next week

Thanks for everyones help.

 

[riffjim4069]

Well, I've owned (still own) three Yamaha HT receivers over the years and love 'em - my preference and they drive my Klipsch KDFs and JBLs perfectly. Denon would be a close 2nd in the book of Riff...and I've never been impressed with the Pioneer or Marantz HT receivers. Again, my preference.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Man, HSU communication was excellent, reminds me of Oppo and Def Tech. Got a few emails yesterday, and it shipped last night. Set to arrive next wed, and Im off Thu and Fri, so I have time to set it up.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Best sub I've ever owned is the BG Radia 210i. Two 10" Kevlar woofers. Cleanest sound I've ever heard. I use two in my HT setup. They are discontinued, but if you can find one, you won't be disappointed.

S~

Holy crap, check out this 16" on center in between stud sub wall they make. Thatd be awesome for a PJ room.

Only $7k

 

[teachsac]

Holy crap, check out this 16" on center in between stud sub wall they make. Thatd be awesome for a PJ room.

Only $7k

Trust me. I installed a lot of their in walls.

S~

 

[gadgtfreek]

That's cool stuff.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well, the AVR look got me worked up, even thought I bought the HSU sub. I just ordered a Marantz SR 6005. After reading a ton of reviews, and owner comments (vs mid grade Pioneer and Denon), I think it's a great price at $599. Should be here tomorrow, so I can setup with my new sub.

 

[teachsac]

I think you'll like the 6005. I do

S~

 

[gadgtfreek]

It's really got some great reviews, and like I said the price is great. Im curious about the Marantz sound, vs Denon, and the extra power.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Marantz pics and impressions:

Marantz pics:

Observations:

• Remote destroys Denons, love the backlight
• Base and feet match Denon exactly (little rubber feet)
• Display is larger and shows more than the 1911. The 1911 was a downgrade as far as the display and info showed compared to my 1909, the Marantz is laid out better and words are not cut off
• Overall, the front panel looks better to me than the Denon
• It runs more hot than the Denon, but not as hot as my old Onkyo
• Its GUI is leaps and bounds over Denon, and it's Audyssey calibration screens are much better
• Audyssey mic is silver, as opposed to black
• Audyssey was just as straightforward as it always is, and the results were spot on
• I cut off the video processing, I have no need
• DD 5.1 on HDTV with the Denon needed a volume of -6.0 dB's or so, Im watching with the Marantz at -10.0, so not quite high a volume needed.
• It's subwoofer distance measurement was spot on, and Ive not seen that before. Dunno if thats the Denon's fault or the Sub-12 vs the HSU
• As far as SQ, it sounds real crisp, as did the Denon. I do seem to be able to hear detail better though, especially in the center. When the volume was cranked, my center especially seemed to sound less clear, as if the voices were slightly muddied. I just figured it was maybe the Def Tech Procenter, but I did not experience this when I had the Marantz cranked up on Transformers. It'll take more evaluation, but after owning Denon since late 2008, my initial reaction is the Marantz is more clean and crisp than the 1909/1911 on each channel. I would describe it as all 5 channels seem to stand on their own better, but blend nicely.

 

[gadgtfreek]

HSU Sub

Box

Back

Feet and power cord

Bottom

With Sub-12

Got her all hooked up, will post pics soon.

At lower volume, its presence is definitely more known. I was only able to listen to my usual test piece, which is the last 45 mins or so of Bayformers 1, the city battle. What I heard was, is not that it hit a lot harder (it does hit harder no doubt), but it goes down lower, the bass is very tight and sounds excellent. There were times that the Sub-12 just had a bad noise as it tried low or loud scenes, kinda like banging on the wall. The HSU just goes with the flow and does not sound muddy when pressed (I listened at +3.0db's on the Marantz )

By following Pete's advice, Q 0.7, EQ 1, one port plugged, Xover Out and gain at 9 oclock, the sub trim settings in the marantz were 0.0 db Bananasmiley_42, can't expect much better. Right after Audyssey, I went to EQ 2, unplugged the 2nd port, set Q to 0.5, and of course left the gain alone and xover bypassed. I have my fronts set to 100hz, the center set to 80hz, and the LFE set to 120 hz in the Marantz.

Watching Hawaii 5-0 right now, its funny you really start to notice how tight the bass in music during the show, and just background stuff. Sub-12 had less presence and more boom/drone. Hard to describe to difference, but the HSu definitely sounds better. I'd say I did not gain a lot in the rattle department, because the Sub-12 could bang OK, but as far as bass SQ, HSU wins hands down.

So, more accurate/tighter bass, less odd noise, and goes lower in the hz range.

 

[teachsac]

Great job. Enjoy the Marantz and HSU. Give more impressions once you have them broken in.

S~

 

[teachsac]

I had the 9 series and now use the 2112 in my bedroom. The newer models sound a lot cleaner than the older models. Audyssey was really good on that one, too.

S~

 

[dfergie]

I'll try to check out the new ones at CES in a couple months

 

[gadgtfreek]

Great job. Enjoy the Marantz and HSU. Give more impressions once you have them broken in.

S~

Will do.

The Q settings on the HSU, as well as tuning with plugging one or more ports makes it interesting.

Right now Im running EQ2, both ports open and Q of 0.5. This is Ported Max Ouput mode, which is ideal for medium to large rooms where playback is at a high level and strong midbass is the wanted result. Q of .5 is the flattest deep bass response in medium to large rooms.

Im thinking of plugging one port, which changes it to Ported Max Headroom Mode. It's ideal for medium to large rooms with high playback level and results in the deepest bass extension.

The way I am running now, the low is around 25hz, but if I plug one port that gets it down to 18-20hz. Not sure if low deep bass ability or good mid bass is more important for 100% movies. The reason they recommended I leave both ports open and lose a little low end, is because the high end helps with explosions and such.


This was the actual reply from Pete at HSU, Im still shocked how helpful they have been:

All you need is about 3" of space. Actually, I would go for two ports open for movies. Most movies do not go below 25 Hz, and the higher headroom in two ports open mode is helpful for the loud explosions. You can always set it to one port open for the movies that has extension below 25 Hz (easy enough to plug up one port), but for most movies, both ports open will yield lower distortion.

And finally, most people thought the VTF-3 and VTF-2 differences between the MK3 and MK4 (just released) were the Q adjustment and sealed operation option. This was posted at HSU today

Just a quick note on the new MK4 subwoofers;

According to Dr. Hsu, the VTF-3 MK4 and the VTF-2 MK4 have an updated 12" driver with new and improved shorting rings, resulting in higher mid and upper base efficiency and lower distortion. So that is another enhancement in addition the new Q control and official support for sealed operating modes.

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us.

Regards,
Ryan