Pioneer vs Yamaha Questions/Models

[gadgtfreek]

Here are the ones Im looking at, upgrading from a Denon 1911, so they are all upgrades. Im not sur eif the Elite models are a worthy price to pay, vs the 1121, and not sure if the 1010 adds much except the amp. My only complaint in my current system is the 1911, and it's not bad at all, but I'd like to try another brand as well as more power. Would also like to try anotehr speaker setup routine (YPAO/MCACC)

Pioneer

1121K
$600
7.1 110wx7
THX Certified
MCACC Advanced
30.21lbs

VSX-53 Elite
$770
7.1 110x7
THX Select 2 Plus
MCACC Advanced
30.65 lbs

SC-55
$1300
Class D3 Amp
140x9
THX Select 2 Plus
MCACC Advanced
38.36 pounds



Yamaha

1010
$1000
120x7
YPAO Multipoint
Burr Brown DACS
33.3

810
$800
110x7
YPAO Multipoint
Burr Browns
24.5lbs




To me, the VSX-53 has my eye, and it appears it's just the Elite version of the 1121, with a little more weight and THX Select 2 Plus, along with a better warranty I assume. Im not sure whether the SC55 is worth almost twice as much, someone would need to fill me in.

On the Yamahas, I'd guess the 1010 for the power, it's got a lot more weight to it.


Im tempted to just say frack it and buy the SC55 (would be a long term purchase), but... And, the more I think about it, that SC55 looks interesting. From reading on the AMP, the ability to be used as a preamp later, and the Marvell QDEO which I could use on my Dish network feed/TiVo feed to send 1080p/60 to my display, up from 720p and 1080i, its well built. The SC's have gotten glowing reviews for sound in both Sound and Vision and HTM.


Thanks for any help.

 

[teachsac]

Just left and sold my Pioneer 20 series. I really didn't care for it. The Denon and Marantz have a much cleaner sound to me. Been really pleased with my 2112. Been a while since I've had a Yamaha.

S~

 

[gadgtfreek]

Yeah, Im getting that. My other option was subwoofer, even though I like my Sub-12, it's a budget based boomer and it could stand an upgrade. The money may be better spent there, and Im looking at the Supercube I and a Velodyne DEQ12R or 15R.

15 may be too much though, if thats possible?

 

[jayn_j]

I have an older Velodyne SPL-1200 and it is more than sufficient for my room. I expect the cleaner bass from a DEQ12R would blow you away.
Trying to stay quiet on the amps, but I pretty much agree with teachsac

 

[RandallA]

Dude, didn't you just get the Denon 1911?

 

[gadgtfreek]

I have an older Velodyne SPL-1200 and it is more than sufficient for my room. I expect the cleaner bass from a DEQ12R would blow you away.
Trying to stay quiet on the amps, but I pretty much agree with teachsac

Thanks for the input, and I'm reading good comments on velodyne. I was kinda thinking the 15" was too much in my 11x20 room and that the 12 may be better.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Dude, didn't you just get the Denon 1911?

Yeah, I have a problem



I get a hair and start looking at other models, then just end up back with denon. I don't think the cost adds much benefit, at least not as adding a better sub.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Just left and sold my Pioneer 20 series. I really didn't care for it. The Denon and Marantz have a much cleaner sound to me. Been really pleased with my 2112. Been a while since I've had a Yamaha.

S~

The 6005 Marantz which is selling for under $600, I guess because the 6006 is out at $1100, looks intersting. I completely forgot about them and it was already a brand I wanted to try.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Aight. Did some more sub looking. The HSU VTF-2 MK4 and Outlaw LSM-1 Plus really have my eye.

 

[jayn_j]

Aight. Did some more sub looking. The HSU VTF-2 MK4 and Outlaw LSM-1 Plus really have my eye.

We start getting into my prejudices here. The Hsu has a solid reputation, and the ones I have heard have been excellent. Outlaw, OTOH got its start with bass kickers for mobile. They can't seem to help "punching" it up a bit. I find their subs to be edgy with too many harmonics. Just my opinion.

 

[gadgtfreek]

The LFM was designed by Hsu for them, and most seem to feel they are close. I get what you are saying though. I imagine either one will be a jump from my Sub-12. My other concern is the rear firing port and and forward woofer of the HSU. My Sub-12 has rear ports, and I have it a good chunk away from the wall, but the HSU is much bigger. other concern is the front woofer, and my two dogs

LFM ports and woofer are downfiring. I also looked at the epik legend, but it almost seems too good to be true.

 

[teachsac]

The 6005 Marantz which is selling for under $600, I guess because the 6006 is out at $1100, looks intersting. I completely forgot about them and it was already a brand I wanted to try.

Love my SR6005 and AV7005. I almost picked up another 6005 for the bedroom when I got the 2112.

S~

 

[gadgtfreek]

That looks like a helluva deal.

 

[jayn_j]

The LFM was designed by Hsu for them, and most seem to feel they are close. I get what you are saying though. I imagine either one will be a jump from my Sub-12. My other concern is the rear firing port and and forward woofer of the HSU. My Sub-12 has rear ports, and I have it a good chunk away from the wall, but the HSU is much bigger. other concern is the front woofer, and my two dogs

LFM ports and woofer are downfiring. I also looked at the epik legend, but it almost seems too good to be true.

My Velodyne is front firing, and I still keep it about 18" from the wall. Didn't know about Hsu designing the LSM. I've been trying to ignore recent developments as I have been pretty happy with the current system, and don't want to fall into the always something better trap.

I wouldn't worry too much about the dogs. Mine was nosing up to the sub when an explosion occurred on screen. She jumped 5 ft into the air and hasn't been close to it since. Of course, she is a border collie, so she is naturally skittish.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Haha. I have a 6month old bulldog puppy, and she likes to roughhouse! I have my sub-12 about 11 inches from wall (6" port at 1.5 times distance), and I hear the "chugging" sometime. That may just be the Sub-12 port noise.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Im mistaken on the HSU, the sub is downfiring too according to the images. It's really hard to pass that new model, VTF-2 MK4, at $549 introductory price. Im close to pulling the trigger. Unless that Velodyne 15" gives me something I dont know about. I mean, the 15" would be louder i guess, maybe more boom, but it appears to roll off at 30hz, as opposed to 20hz of the HSU. IMHO, Im thinking I should take the 20hz

 

[jayn_j]

liars, damned liars and statistics (spec sheets)

There are so many variables in setting a specification that it is almost impossible to get a good picture from a spec sheet. You gotta listen.

Lots of factors on loud as well. My 12" has a long throw element and a cone surround that allows the entire cone to move over 3" in use. It has a large amp and claims 22 Hz. Other subs can make the same claims. For example when it says freq response 22Hz-120Hz, what did they use as a dropoff threshold? 0dB, -.3dB, -3dB? My amp says 1500W (dynamic), but the 750W RMS class D is more important.

I guess what I am saying is that the Velodyne may have smoother and lower bottom than the Hsu. I don't actually believe that based on reputation alone, but I wouldn't take it either way on faith and specs.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Oh I agree, I've been looking at test generated sheets by reviewers and owners. It just looks like the Velodyne is gonna drop lower than 30hz, where the HSU's will stay flat down to 20hz. Im sure my Sub-12 is dropping off before 30hz

I know room matters and all, and not that Velodyne isnt a great sub, i just think it may be overpriced.

 

[jayn_j]

I agree with the overpriced part. They were the early pioneer and seem to keep the Apple pricing model.

I bought mine used on Craigslist.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I thought I saw were they were going to internet direct, so maybe they can lower their pricing. Let's face it, someone like them, and Klipsch, being out in the world adds cost. SVS, HSU, Outlaw, etc... just sponsoring forms is a cost reduction, lean and mean. I spent $599 on my Sub-12, and $200 on the Polk before it. Im sure the sub-12, compared to these other models, is really only a $250 sub.