Phoenix Meredith stations dispute?

[The Fat Man]

And what's "enough" people? The costs for Dish are fixed whether they're serving one person or one million. Get enough people to drop locals and Dish is losing money.
I don't think they're having a problem "making business". Yes, they make more because of retrans. But what you're forgetting is the broadcasters don't get all of the retrans fees. They have to pay a chunk to the network. So that $1 - $1.50 isn't pure profit either.

That's the problem. It's people like my wife who is addicted to PTAT and shows like Young Sheldon. Want to know happens in the end, watch The Big Bang Theory. What's the number, how does say 45% to 50% of a viewing market sound? I don't know. But, you're definately taking what I present as theoretical and are dead set on proving your side of this debate as concrete.

Also, I think your logic is way off. We have a provider who sits here and advises subscribers to drop locals. They make local channel viewership optional. Nobody else will even touch it. As for your who gets the money, the locals get more than Dish does. So again, they are losing less from subs dropping the channel than they gain while paying in retransmission fees.

Its similar to HBO. Dish was making a cut on HBO and Cinemax. But they decided it better to let HBO and Cinemax go than pay the gauging that AT&T was charging.

 

[ChadT41]

My proof is in the statements made by the local channels, in court... literally their entire argument. Unless you can prove how they were wrong about their own financials...

 

[eddie willers]

If suddenly we could not skip over ads, a lot of people would not be watching commercial channels. I know I wouldn't.

Ditto.

 

[NYDutch]

Broadcast stations as a whole will take in a bit more than $20 billion in ad revenue and a little more than $10 billion this year in retransmission fees. Those fees are expected to hit $2.10/month/subscriber next year according to this Forbes article. The networks will get about 54% of those fees this year, leaving about $5 billion for the station owners. The current average retrans fee per subscriber is likely about $2.00 if it's expected to go to $2.10 next year, so how much money is Dish losing when a subscriber drops the locals? And how much is the broadcaster losing?

 

[sam_gordon]

My proof is in the statements made by the local channels, in court... literally their entire argument. Unless you can prove how they were wrong about their own financials...

I didn't ask you for "proof". I asked you how they use immediate autohop (or autohop) in general as a negotiating tool. This will be the third time I've asked and you haven't given a single argument on how it will play out. I do find it interesting that you accept the broadcaster's spin (and you know that's what it was) from when they were in court over autohop, but don't accept it in retrans disputes.

Broadcast stations as a whole will take in a bit more than $20 billion in ad revenue and a little more than $10 billion this year in retransmission fees. Those fees are expected to hit $2.10/month/subscriber next year according to this Forbes article. The networks will get about 54% of those fees this year, leaving about $5 billion for the station owners. The current average retrans fee per subscriber is likely about $2.00 if it's expected to go to $2.10 next year, so how much money is Dish losing when a subscriber drops the locals? And how much is the broadcaster losing?

And the networks will get 59% of retrans next year according to the same article. So that leaves a given station getting less than $1/month/sub. How much profit does Dish make from locals?

 

[The Fat Man]

For anyone on the side of the networks. Something that was designed as part public service and part buisness based on ad revenue (like FM radio), then I have to say that it's disgusting that the networks jumped on the chance to charge subscription for streaming. My brother-in-law does only streaming. He has to pay CBS to access the daily newscasts from WBZ. That's not what he watches, he pays so he can see Patriots games in the Fall. But, to even see the local news, CBS charges. I'm simply against that model.

 

[sam_gordon]

For anyone on the side of the networks. Something that was designed as part public service and part buisness based on ad revenue (like FM radio), then I have to say that it's disgusting that the networks jumped on the chance to charge subscription for streaming. My brother-in-law does only streaming. He has to pay CBS to access the daily telecasts from WBZ. That's not what he watches, he pays so he can see Patriots games in the Fall. But, to even see the local news, CBS charges. I'm simply against that model.

I agree with you. I understand charging Hulu, YouTube, Playstation, etc, but you shouldn't charge people to watch your own live stream. That being said, many stations will stream their live newscasts for free.

 

[The Fat Man]

I agree with you. I understand charging Hulu, YouTube, Playstation, etc, but you shouldn't charge people to watch your own live stream. That being said, many stations will stream their live newscasts for free.

Hearst stations are some of my favorite for that. They do it on their ap. Happens to be yet another reason that CBS's buisness model is what I don't like. I have a bias disdain for CBS's buisness model since they systematically destroyed rock radio across the east coast, in the name of Sports Talk. Boston, New York, Philly, Orlando, and so on. They murdered heratige stations like WBCN and WYSP by purposefully destroying the playlists, turning off the listeners, then saying that since people aren't listening they were going to flip formats. New York is the only place where it made sense. Also, in Orlando, the station was flipped to classic hits. So perhaps Orlando made sense.

In Boston, during that whole Free FM era after Stern went to Sirius, they wanted to make WBCN a Free FM station, but ratings were decent to justify not doing it. So, funny how WBCN slowly went to crap after. They saturated it with 90s grunge and only played horrible new acts and ignored more popular acts of the time.

 

[NYDutch]

I didn't ask you for "proof". I asked you how they use immediate autohop (or autohop) in general as a negotiating tool. This will be the third time I've asked and you haven't given a single argument on how it will play out. I do find it interesting that you accept the broadcaster's spin (and you know that's what it was) from when they were in court over autohop, but don't accept it in retrans disputes.


And the networks will get 59% of retrans next year according to the same article. So that leaves a given station getting less than $1/month/sub. How much profit does Dish make from locals?

With an average of $2/subscriber that Dish pays each broadcaster, and an average of 6 broadcasters per DMA (guesstimate), Dish makes nothing on the $12/subscriber locals charge, while the broadcasters make a $1/subscriber in net profit. How much the broadcaster pay the networks for content is not Dish's problem. Maybe the broadcasters should start taking a hard line with the networks over their fees...

 

[ChadT41]

I have given you ways, and said there are countless amounts of other ways that you have rejected, and I believe I gave it to you twice already... your choice not to recognize it because it doesn’t pass your sniff test, regardless of that last part, is not something that will change this circular argument.

 

[sam_gordon]

With an average of $2/subscriber that Dish pays each broadcaster, and an average of 6 broadcasters per DMA (guesstimate), Dish makes nothing on the $12/subscriber locals charge, while the broadcasters make a $1/subscriber in net profit. How much the broadcaster pay the networks for content is not Dish's problem. Maybe the broadcasters should start taking a hard line with the networks over their fees...

Right off the bat I challenge the average of 6 broadcasters per DMA. Five, maybe. Again, we're talking average across the country.

I also don't think they're getting $2/sub. Your article takes a guess at getting to $2.10 next year, which, if you're right about them getting $2 now would only be a 5% increase. Haven't we heard from Dish for years that the proposed increases have been up to 100%? All of a sudden it's down to 5%?

 

[ChadT41]

Right off the bat I challenge the average of 6 broadcasters per DMA. Five, maybe. Again, we're talking average across the country.

I also don't think they're getting $2/sub. Your article takes a guess at getting to $2.10 next year, which, if you're right about them getting $2 now would only be a 5% increase. Haven't we heard from Dish for years that the proposed increases have been up to 100%? All of a sudden it's down to 5%?

The contract renewal at up to 400% increase. Not the annual.

 

[sam_gordon]

I have given you ways, and said there are countless amounts of other ways that you have rejected, and I believe I gave it to you twice already... your choice not to recognize it because it doesn’t pass your sniff test, regardless of that last part, is not something that will change this circular argument.

I went back and looked. And all I found was you pointing to the argument the networks made in court when they tried to block autohop. If that's all you've got, ok. I still say advertisers will never find out if their ad block gets skipped. If you've got something that says different, I'd love to see it. Do you believe the broadcasters would tell advertisers they got skipped?

 

[ChadT41]

Do you think providers would tell their major advertisers? Like I said, if that is all you found, that explains why this conversation is circular and not changing.

 

[sam_gordon]

Do you think providers would tell their major advertisers? Like I said, if that is all you found, that explains why this conversation is circular and not changing.

When you say "providers" are you talking MVPDs or the locals? Why would either one tell their major advertisers? Or are you saying that Dish is telling Toyota "Hey, 80% of people are skipping your add on WXYZ."?

No, I don't think ANYONE is telling the advertisers their ads are being skipped. Why would you?

 

[ChadT41]

Because of leverage. That’s why Dish could hold that card. Run a whole marketing campaign about it, like they have since 2013.

 

[NYDutch]

Right off the bat I challenge the average of 6 broadcasters per DMA. Five, maybe. Again, we're talking average across the country.

I also don't think they're getting $2/sub. Your article takes a guess at getting to $2.10 next year, which, if you're right about them getting $2 now would only be a 5% increase. Haven't we heard from Dish for years that the proposed increases have been up to 100%? All of a sudden it's down to 5%?

Six per DMA average would be the Big 4 and 2 independents. Larger DMA's may have a lot more than that. San Francisco has around 15 or 16 OTA stations, and even Rapid City, SD with a population of just ~75,000 lists 6 OTA stations on Dish. And no, I'm not including subs. But even if 5 stations is a closer average, Dish still likely isn't making any money on locals since the larger DMA's with more stations also have the largest percentage of viewers that Dish is paying for. They might make a few bucks on East Podunk, but then lose money on NY, LA, etc...

The only huge increases in demands we hear about are those that are in dispute. The majority of renewals occur without incident. I'll stand by $2 being a fair estimate for this year.

 

[ChadT41]

Big 4 and then atleast 2 Spanish or kids stations would sound right for the average.

 

[sam_gordon]

Because of leverage. That’s why Dish could hold that card. Run a whole marketing campaign about it, like they have since 2013.

OK, I"m confused. WHO is telling advertisers their spots are getting skipped? You think Dish network is telling the local car company their commercials are being skipped? Or do you think the local car company execs are watching Dish promos about autohop and putting together that their ads are being skipped?

Six per DMA average would be the Big 4 and 2 independents. Larger DMA's may have a lot more than that. San Francisco has around 15 or 16 OTA stations, and even Rapid City, SD with a population of just ~75,000 lists 6 OTA stations on Dish. And no, I'm not including subs. But even if 5 stations is a closer average, Dish still likely isn't making any money on locals since the larger DMA's with more stations also have the largest percentage of viewers that Dish is paying for. They might make a few bucks on East Podunk, but then lose money on NY, LA, etc...

The only huge increases in demands we hear about are those that are in dispute. The majority of renewals occur without incident. I'll stand by $2 being a fair estimate for this year.

OK.

 

[ChadT41]

The local car company isn’t paying a large enough bill for that to matter. The billion dollar companies that advertise in the prime spots, however, is all they have to talk to.