Panasonic to cave in as well?

[mike123abc]

I think most have missed the point behind the HD-DVD add on to the 360. It is not really meant to sell, it is to prevent vetos. It is like fast food hamburger places selling salads. They really do not want to sell salads, they are low margin and very low profit. They prevent the restaurant from being vetoed by one person in a crowd.

What Microsoft is trying to prevent is a comparison of 360 vs PS3 by uninformed consumers (and anyone doing the comparison is uninformed, those that are informed already know which platform they want), ruling out the 360 since it does not play HD movies. What Microsoft wants is the consumer to look at the two units see both can play High Definition videos, but then notice that they do not have to commit to HD right now and can save big $$ over the PS3 now and in the future can always come back for the add on box (which they never really do).

The price that MS is quoting on the HD-DVD player will probably be 0 profit or even a loss. They really do not want to sell you it. After all they do not have any real after market monies generated by it (i.e. Microsoft is not producing HD-DVDs to sell to you). They just want you to see the 360 in a better light and buy it so they can make money selling you tons of video games.

Sony on the other hand has a movie studio and it is another way to make money on you. They are very interested in selling you Blu-Ray. They stand to make money on this deal, so they do not make it optional.

 

[lovswr]

I think most have missed the point behind the HD-DVD add on to the 360. It is not really meant to sell, it is to prevent vetos. It is like fast food hamburger places selling salads. They really do not want to sell salads, they are low margin and very low profit. They prevent the restaurant from being vetoed by one person in a crowd.

What Microsoft is trying to prevent is a comparison of 360 vs PS3 by uninformed consumers (and anyone doing the comparison is uninformed, those that are informed already know which platform they want), ruling out the 360 since it does not play HD movies. What Microsoft wants is the consumer to look at the two units see both can play High Definition videos, but then notice that they do not have to commit to HD right now and can save big $$ over the PS3 now and in the future can always come back for the add on box (which they never really do).

The price that MS is quoting on the HD-DVD player will probably be 0 profit or even a loss. They really do not want to sell you it. After all they do not have any real after market monies generated by it (i.e. Microsoft is not producing HD-DVDs to sell to you). They just want you to see the 360 in a better light and buy it so they can make money selling you tons of video games.

Sony on the other hand has a movie studio and it is another way to make money on you. They are very interested in selling you Blu-Ray. They stand to make money on this deal, so they do not make it optional.

Mike, that is the best explanation that I have seen yet of the PS3/BDA HD-DVD product strategies. It makes so much sense. Thank you. Thank you very much.

 

[vurbano]

I think most have missed the point behind the HD-DVD add on to the 360. It is not really meant to sell, it is to prevent vetos. It is like fast food hamburger places selling salads. They really do not want to sell salads, they are low margin and very low profit. They prevent the restaurant from being vetoed by one person in a crowd.

What Microsoft is trying to prevent is a comparison of 360 vs PS3 by uninformed consumers (and anyone doing the comparison is uninformed, those that are informed already know which platform they want), ruling out the 360 since it does not play HD movies. What Microsoft wants is the consumer to look at the two units see both can play High Definition videos, but then notice that they do not have to commit to HD right now and can save big $$ over the PS3 now and in the future can always come back for the add on box (which they never really do).

The price that MS is quoting on the HD-DVD player will probably be 0 profit or even a loss. They really do not want to sell you it. After all they do not have any real after market monies generated by it (i.e. Microsoft is not producing HD-DVDs to sell to you). They just want you to see the 360 in a better light and buy it so they can make money selling you tons of video games.

Sony on the other hand has a movie studio and it is another way to make money on you. They are very interested in selling you Blu-Ray. They stand to make money on this deal, so they do not make it optional.

With a copy of KONG on HD DVD bundled with the drive I think a large amount will become HD DVD buyers.

 

[BlackHitachi]

With a copy of KONG on HD DVD bundled with the drive I think a large amount will become HD DVD buyers.

I know i will!

 

[hpman247]

I bought a 360. The Sony Fanboy that I am. I LOVE IT. I am extremely happy that I waited 12 hours for it. I wanted it to come with an HDDVD drive, but it didn’t but I bought it anyway. I will buy the HDDVD Drive when I am in line for the PS3.

I'm not made of money either. I am simply a college student that usually wants everything new on the market. And I find a way to get it. Usually the grandparents haha. But to me it does not matter. Both Blu-ray and HDDVD produce an excellent HD picture. However, Blu-ray has the possibilities for the FUTURE in my opinion with their increased storage capacity. Sure, right now it doesn't make much of a difference. For games no matter the compression techniques used, the games are going to look basically the same.

But in a couple of years, we'll have to see what happens. Look at a Madden game from year one of the PS2 and look at the one released in August for the PS2. The difference is astonishing. The same storage medium was used on both consoles P2-XB; however I think with the Blu-ray capacity, it will be able to take advantage of better compression techniques that 360 will not have the space for in the future. I want to be prepared and therefore I am buying both. Right now for Movie Playback, but when there is a winner or an extreme drop in price I will buy standalone units because of PQ concerns. The PS2 was my first DVD player (This was before I was a technology buff) and I thought it was awesome when I first used it, and I see no reason for the same to not hold true for the PS3 Blu-ray. But in time obviously a standalone unit is the way to go. Some kind of Farouga chip equivalent will be in a Blu-ray or HDDVD drive in due time. I will buy all my movies in Blu-ray, unless HDDVD has a title I want that is not out for HDDVD. Obviously, this is just my POV and I am sure many people disagree. I am not trying to speak for any group of people; I am just giving my perspective.

The PS3 IMO will surpass the 360 in sales in the next year in a half because of the name. If you bought a 360 you were either a Fanboy, or someone who was tired of old generation games that probably had an HDTV and hated playing games on it. I fall into the latter category. I suppose there are those computer geeks out there who live off of computer games and gigabyte graphics cards, but PC games are no fun to me. Only Age of Empires. I hate WoW, Half-Life, or any other PC game out there. However I do have a massive computer to play them on if I wish b/c, like I said I like to have the newest and greatest on the market.

I also like the consistency of the controller and being able to view it on a TV. And no I am not stupid and I know everyone will catch me on that last comment, I know you can play PC games on a big screen HDTV. But what normal person out there wants to deal with Powerstrip, matching resolutions, and fixing overscan problems. The AVERAGE person will not do this or want to bother with it. Even for me personally, I CAN do it but that doesn't mean I want to. Since I don't like the games and don't want to waste my valuable time messing with it I don't.

It just seems to me that people are going crazy over this. Dying to be on either side. Every post I go to in the forum has T2k bashing Blu-ray. There are those Bashing HDDVD as well, even thought at the present moment HDDVD has the better picture. Honestly I don't care about the downrezzing over component. Who is going to use component in 5 years. (Not exactly sure how long I just know that it is not in the near future). I really don't care about all these extreme specifications. I just care that it looks HD, and it looks GREAT (No DISHHD on these mediums). I also care that I am not using old technology and the 360 is outdated already. I love the games on it, but in the future its not the console of choice and I seriously don’t see how anyone can say it is. Ok I am going to end this long rant now even though I have much more to say about the PS3, 360, Bluray, and HDDVD in general,but I will stop.

 

[NOHDjunkie]

yeah... yeah. Yep, uh huh, Hmmm.

another Blu Ray "Potential benifits" post

A couple of years ago I didn't have a 100" screen and a projector

A couple years from now I might have a 150" screen

A couple of years ago I only had one HDTV. Now I have three.

A couple years ago I had VOOM DBS.

A couple years from now I might have cable instead of Dish Network.

Tomorrow I might be whisked away by aliens.

Right now I have HD DVD. cause it's affordable and works well.

Next January I might have Blu ray.

in 1976, when I was 12, I wished there was a magical machine I could use to record my favorite TV shows.

Next march I may poke my eyeballs out.

right now I just burn myself with cigarettes.( but it's OK cause I like it)

 

[JoeSp]

Gee, I noticed no one here picked up on my High Def audio statement about the XBOX360 HD-DVD drive. Without HDMI or 5.1 analog out with that drive there is no way to get any of the new HD Audio signals out of the drive. This alone criples it- but M$ is hoping that you either 1)don't notice, 2) don't care 3) really believe that the HD picture is all there is to the High Definition movie experiance!
Could this be why the VGA output?

As for gameplay, could anyone here show me the stats on how the XBOX360 is going to do 1080p if the HD-DVD player only outputs the movie video in 1080p thru the VGA connector? I don't seem to remember there being a VGA connector on the XBOX360? Maybe I missed that spec? Sure, I hear how M$ is going to release an update so that the 360 can do 1080p -- but that is not what the graphics system is set up to do.

Another nugget to struggle with (and here I pick a bone with both M$ and Sony). Most new 1080p sets only do that resolution thru the HDMI port. The highest resolution that I have seen thru the componet port is 1080i (with the set upgrading to 1080p-this is not a true 1080p signal). And most of the sets do not have a VGA input. I think in this reguard both M$ and Sony is pulling some wool over our eyes. I think this 1080p is just a gimmick as you would have a real hard time seeing the differance between 1080i and 1080p. That is unless you a viewing something higher than 60fps and higher bit color. And you absolutely can not do that without HDMI 1.3 without complete support in the HDTV for all VGA resolutions. Maybe we are all supposed to go back to computer CRT monitors. Good thing I kept my NEC FP912sb.

 

[vurbano]

And most of the sets do not have a VGA input.

Another BD troll said that over at AVS a few days ago. I went over to TV authority and clicked on a sammy DLP, a JVC DILA, and a plasma all 1080p and they ALL had VGA input.

 

[T2k]

T2k, teamerickson is questioning whether the HD-DVD add-on will play games on the XBOX360.

Which is a pretty werid question as it will play DVDs ergo it will play games...

Simple answer is no.

Really? And how so? Let me guess: another uneducated but loud guess you pulled out of your bottom part...

It is just for Hd-DVD movie playback.

It could be just but it's certainly no only for HD-DVD movie playback...

That's what M$ says. Of course they always tell the truth right?

No. Why, who said that?

However they are still nowhere close to the completely ridiculous level of lying Sony performed during past few years... Sony has lost it's credibility completely.

Hey, remember when they said that it was impossible to do games in 1080p and that the PS3 could not do that?:haha

Did they?

Oh yeah, there are games coming out on the PS3 for launch in 1080p and guess what -- Now your XBOX360 can do 1080p too!! :yikes WOW, another truth from M$.

I don't recall such an idiotic statetement - especially when the unified PC/360 devkit supports every single resolution you can imagine.

 

[T2k]

I bought a 360. The Sony Fanboy that I am. I LOVE IT. I am extremely happy that I waited 12 hours for it. I wanted it to come with an HDDVD drive, but it didn’t but I bought it anyway. I will buy the HDDVD Drive when I am in line for the PS3.

I'm not made of money either. I am simply a college student that usually wants everything new on the market. And I find a way to get it. Usually the grandparents haha. But to me it does not matter. Both Blu-ray and HDDVD produce an excellent HD picture. However, Blu-ray has the possibilities for the FUTURE in my opinion with their increased storage capacity. Sure, right now it doesn't make much of a difference. For games no matter the compression techniques used, the games are going to look basically the same.

But in a couple of years, we'll have to see what happens. Look at a Madden game from year one of the PS2 and look at the one released in August for the PS2. The difference is astonishing. The same storage medium was used on both consoles P2-XB; however I think with the Blu-ray capacity, it will be able to take advantage of better compression techniques that 360 will not have the space for in the future. I want to be prepared and therefore I am buying both. Right now for Movie Playback, but when there is a winner or an extreme drop in price I will buy standalone units because of PQ concerns. The PS2 was my first DVD player (This was before I was a technology buff) and I thought it was awesome when I first used it, and I see no reason for the same to not hold true for the PS3 Blu-ray. But in time obviously a standalone unit is the way to go. Some kind of Farouga chip equivalent will be in a Blu-ray or HDDVD drive in due time. I will buy all my movies in Blu-ray, unless HDDVD has a title I want that is not out for HDDVD. Obviously, this is just my POV and I am sure many people disagree. I am not trying to speak for any group of people; I am just giving my perspective.

The PS3 IMO will surpass the 360 in sales in the next year in a half because of the name. If you bought a 360 you were either a Fanboy, or someone who was tired of old generation games that probably had an HDTV and hated playing games on it. I fall into the latter category. I suppose there are those computer geeks out there who live off of computer games and gigabyte graphics cards, but PC games are no fun to me. Only Age of Empires. I hate WoW, Half-Life, or any other PC game out there. However I do have a massive computer to play them on if I wish b/c, like I said I like to have the newest and greatest on the market.

I also like the consistency of the controller and being able to view it on a TV. And no I am not stupid and I know everyone will catch me on that last comment, I know you can play PC games on a big screen HDTV. But what normal person out there wants to deal with Powerstrip, matching resolutions, and fixing overscan problems. The AVERAGE person will not do this or want to bother with it. Even for me personally, I CAN do it but that doesn't mean I want to. Since I don't like the games and don't want to waste my valuable time messing with it I don't.

It just seems to me that people are going crazy over this. Dying to be on either side. Every post I go to in the forum has T2k bashing Blu-ray. There are those Bashing HDDVD as well, even thought at the present moment HDDVD has the better picture. Honestly I don't care about the downrezzing over component. Who is going to use component in 5 years. (Not exactly sure how long I just know that it is not in the near future). I really don't care about all these extreme specifications. I just care that it looks HD, and it looks GREAT (No DISHHD on these mediums). I also care that I am not using old technology and the 360 is outdated already. I love the games on it, but in the future its not the console of choice and I seriously don’t see how anyone can say it is. Ok I am going to end this long rant now even though I have much more to say about the PS3, 360, Bluray, and HDDVD in general,but I will stop.

Based on your post - ie being apparently hopelessly clueless and not paying for anything - I must ask how much pot did you smoke before you found the current Blu-Ray lineup "great" looking HD...

...let alone there's no "extreme specifications" mentioned anywhere, not to mention that I usually trashtalk about Sony instead of Blu-Ray...

But hey, these pretty small problems with your comments after those truly hilarious stuff WRT Powerstrip and TV-out - boy, we don't need those things for long years now, you really have to stop smoking that stuff: you plug in your TV and that's it for years now...

 

[JoeSp]

Someone asked if Microsoft lies? Let's see, There was the time M$ said that it was only interested in computers on desktops --- then along came Windows98 with server and online capablity. Then they said there really were not interested in the internet and after their offer to buy Netscape failed they brought out Internet Explorer and locked out Netscape and that decision cost them a cool 250mil here in the states and 500 mil in Europe. Same thing happened with the better product Word Perfect -- anyone remember them , Sun Systems (court is still out on that one) , non use of Java and until a court order would not let it work with XP. Man, M$ really tells the truth.

Lets see if there are any more big M$ woppers out there -- Bill Gates in the Key Address at E3 during the announcement of the XBOX -- "I am not trying to replace the PC." And just what is the XBOX360? Easier online gaming and surfing than a PC. Fastest growing online network in history so far. Heck, XBOXLIVE really destroys the PC. You can do HD gaming on the 360 for way less then a high powered PC and you can play the same games? That's right Bill, you don't want to replace the PC -- you are trying to make it obsolete in the home! All you are missing is a keyboard, mouse and printer (uh, are these products available for the 360 yet?)

And after a year of having XBOX360's meltdown and gamers paying for the repair while M$ said that they had repaired a problem that they hadn't , Microsoft admits problems and that they will reimburse those who had to shell out good money to repair their systems.

And I will not list the XP and VISTA promises that did not and are not going to come to the light of day. And now there is a hearing in Europe about VISTA being allowed to be sold there because after promising not to close up the operating system it seems that is exactly what M$ has done with some areas of Vista!

Oh yeah, I get it. If you DON'T GET CAUGHT its not lying. SURE!!!

 

[JamesJ]

Someone asked if Microsoft lies? Let's see, There was the time M$ said that it was only interested in computers on desktops --- then along came Windows98 with server and online capablity. Then they said there really were not interested in the internet and after their offer to buy Netscape failed they brought out Internet Explorer and locked out Netscape and that decision cost them a cool 250mil here in the states and 500 mil in Europe. Same thing happened with the better product Word Perfect -- anyone remember them , Sun Systems (court is still out on that one) , non use of Java and until a court order would not let it work with XP. Man, M$ really tells the truth.

Lets see if there are any more big M$ woppers out there -- Bill Gates in the Key Address at E3 during the announcement of the XBOX -- "I am not trying to replace the PC." And just what is the XBOX360? Easier online gaming and surfing than a PC. Fastest growing online network in history so far. Heck, XBOXLIVE really destroys the PC. You can do HD gaming on the 360 for way less then a high powered PC and you can play the same games? That's right Bill, you don't want to replace the PC -- you are trying to make it obsolete in the home! All you are missing is a keyboard, mouse and printer (uh, are these products available for the 360 yet?)

And after a year of having XBOX360's meltdown and gamers paying for the repair while M$ said that they had repaired a problem that they hadn't , Microsoft admits problems and that they will reimburse those who had to shell out good money to repair their systems.

And I will not list the XP and VISTA promises that did not and are not going to come to the light of day. And now there is a hearing in Europe about VISTA being allowed to be sold there because after promising not to close up the operating system it seems that is exactly what M$ has done with some areas of Vista!

Oh yeah, I get it. If you DON'T GET CAUGHT its not lying. SURE!!!

Joe, first, its called Growth. Companies have to adapt to the new trends, if they want to make it, trust me I own 9 of my own restaurants, and its tough, The customers decide in the end what you do...not you. Also your comment about the 360 being easier then a computer to do online gaming and surfing shows how much you really dont know...as it doesn't have a internet browser, and everything I have played, has pretty much the same online abilities as a computer, this is your statement you are trying to say as fact when really you make factless statements.

 

[JamesJ]

also about the whole blu ray vs. HDDVD... I normally dont say much as I am still learning a lot in this area, but I saw a Blu ray at Best buy and I have to say, it looked like CRAP. It was hooked up HDMI to a Smasung DLP. The noise and overall general picture quality was horrible, oh and did I mention the noise in the blacks, it really looked like little sparklies all over the shadows and blacks, and it wasnt the TV, becasue the day before they had their HD Server on it, and it looked amazing, but then hooked up to Blu ray

 

[JoeSp]

stuart628, I agree with you on the BluRay demo at Best Buy. I saw a differant demo in San Franciso at the Sony Style store in Sony's new BluRay player on a Sony 1080p and it was considerably sharper. Don't know if it was differance was because of the demo or the player. I asked if I could get a copy and was told that they were not for distribution but I would really like to see that Sony demo in the Samsung player. It would answer alot of questions right now.

 

[JoeSp]

stuart628, for those who do not use a PC or have very little usable knowledge of the PC and the internet the XBOX360Live is a blessing. These folks would never be able to set up a PC game to play over the internet. XBOXLIVE gives these folks a simple way to do this and enjoy an experiance that most PC gamers have been enjoy for over 20 years. That was the basis for my statement.

And I was premature on the surfing part. I understand that M$ is bringing out a browser with their big update later this year. This might go along with their annoucement of a 100gb HD. I sense that the M$ browser will be very simple to use with a very limited set of features to adjust as compared to the browsers available for PCs. Why you might ask, I beta test stuff for M$ all the time and I can see especially in Vista that they are going a long way around the bush to make things simpler for people to use. The real heady stuff is being hid behind the faceplate. This simpler access would be perfect with the 360 so I see this as the direction that M$ could and should take. Of course I could be wrong, but the new upgrade is just a few weeks away and we will see then.