Panasonic to cave in as well?

[vurbano]

Rumor: Panasonic and Sony Releasing Hybrid HD DVD/Blu-ray Players Next Year

An anonymous source heard from someone high-up in the company—we can't say who—that Panasonic/Matsushita is going to produce a dual HD DVD/Blu-ray player next year. This will be a hardware hybrid, and not a disc hybrid, as we posted about yesterday.

These sources say that Panasonic is doing this to protect itself, as the next-gen DVD wars aren't close to being resolved, and they don't want all their next-generation eggs in one next-generation basket, no matter how Blu that basket may be.

Also, it's rumored that Sony will be making one of these as well, but this is even more rumory than the Panasonic rumor. We'll believe it when we see it, since Sony's not one to throw in the towel and a hybrid drive would be somewhat of a concession. We're more likely to see a mea culpa from OJ Simpson than Sony.

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home...year-204039.php

 

[vurbano]

There is speculation and a report from someone close to an insider in this thread at AVS that CE manufacturers are about to bail on BD. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=729752

 

[jgantert]

Kinda suprising for this early on. But I guess companies go where the money is, and for the moment is appears HD DVD is way outpacing BR.

I'm still curious how BR's ace (the PS3) is going to come out on time when they are still changing the hardware specs just months before launch. Oh well... We'll see what happens. Should be an interesting holiday season for HD DVD vs BR and Xbox 360 vs PS3 (or maybe Xbox 360 vs Wii).

-John

 

[charper1]

I don't se the PS3 being their ACE, but maybe their fuse.

 

[JoeSp]

Do you guys really believe that the PS3 is not going to sell out this XMAS? If and that is a big if, Sony delivers on its plans to ship another 600,000 to 800,000 PS3 to North America that will give the BluRay market over 1 million units to sell movies to. That does not include all the other maufacturers bring out their BluRay drives.

Inclusion of VC-1 and MPEG4 for compression of the movies is right now turning out BluRay movies with the same PQ as HD-DVD (I am talking about the same movies released for both formats). Add to that in November the Dual Layer BluRay will start releasing and you will have an avalance of BluRay product on the market by XMAS. From here we will start to see how the numbers game is played.

Personally, I want both formats to survive and do well. Only with competition will the price of HD players and movies really come down. That is how these new products will move from the early adopters to the general population.

In addition, do you really believe that someone interested in BluRay and seeing the PS3 for $499 with HDMI 1.3 is going to see Toshiba's new HDMI player for $899 a good deal? I don't think so. Sony lost the Beta-VHS war with having the better product but no support. This time , IMO, they have the better product and they also have the numbers on there side. And as usual, flames may begin now, time will tell. XMAS is not that far away.

 

[teamerickson]

In addition, do you really believe that someone interested in BluRay and seeing the PS3 for $499 with HDMI 1.3 is going to see Toshiba's new HDMI player for $899 a good deal? I don't think so. Sony lost the Beta-VHS war with having the better product but no support. This time , IMO, they have the better product and they also have the numbers on there side. And as usual, flames may begin now, time will tell. XMAS is not that far away.

How about buying an Xbox with the HD DVD for $499, or just the HD DVD add on for $200? I bet microsoft will sell 10 million HD DVD add ons this winter!!

Joe where have you been hiding?

 

[jgantert]

Do you guys really believe that the PS3 is not going to sell out this XMAS?

Sure, all they make will sell.

If and that is a big if, Sony delivers on its plans to ship another 600,000 to 800,000 PS3 to North America that will give the BluRay market over 1 million units to sell movies to.

Good luck with those quantities since the PS3 isn't in production yet, and they are still changing hardware specs.

Inclusion of VC-1 and MPEG4 for compression of the movies is right now turning out BluRay movies with the same PQ as HD-DVD (I am talking about the same movies released for both formats).

Agreed. Some titles like The Big Hit are still poor, tho. It's hit or miss with BR (especially Sony releases). HD DVD so far, has been much more reliable and dependable in the quality of thier releases. Universal and Paramount have not (IMO) released a dud yet. And the few Warner duds were 1080i masters, which Warner has said they will avoid in the future. So, a blind buy for HD DVD is a much safer bet than a blind buy for BR (again IMO).

Add to that in November the Dual Layer BluRay will start releasing and you will have an avalance of BluRay product on the market by XMAS.

My crystal ball is hazy on the whole dual layer BR thing.

In addition, do you really believe that someone interested in BluRay and seeing the PS3 for $499 with HDMI 1.3 is going to see Toshiba's new HDMI player for $899 a good deal? I don't think so.

Thus my notation of the PS3 as BR's ace. BR is betting on the PS3 buyers buying BR movies as well. Maybe they will, who knows. We'll have to wait and see.

-John

 

[jgantert]

How about buying an Xbox with the HD DVD for $499, or just the HD DVD add on for $200? I bet microsoft will sell 10 million HD DVD add ons this winter!!

Ah good stuff. While I agree the XBOX HD DVD addon is a great product, no way 10 mil sold. Heck, it took about a year for there to be 10 mil 360's sold. There probably won't even be 10 mil addons produced this winter (even if every 360 owner wanted one).

The problem with the 360 addon is the same problem with the PS3 as a BR player. Namely game machines play games well. They may also play movies, but they who wants to do that? You can't play a game while you're watching a movie. And, you have to use the horrible interface as well. Yuck, no thanks. Lets all throw away our $50 DVD players and use the PS2 as our main DVD player.

-John

 

[teamerickson]

Ah good stuff. While I agree the XBOX HD DVD addon is a great product, no way 10 mil sold. Heck, it took about a year for there to be 10 mil 360's sold. There probably won't even be 10 mil addons produced this winter (even if every 360 owner wanted one).
-John

I picked an unusually large number in an effort to wake up Joe.

 

[vurbano]

Do you guys really believe that the PS3 is not going to sell out this XMAS? If and that is a big if, Sony delivers on its plans to ship another 600,000 to 800,000 PS3 to North America that will give the BluRay market over 1 million units to sell movies to. That does not include all the other maufacturers bring out their BluRay drives.

Inclusion of VC-1 and MPEG4 for compression of the movies is right now turning out BluRay movies with the same PQ as HD-DVD (I am talking about the same movies released for both formats). Add to that in November the Dual Layer BluRay will start releasing and you will have an avalance of BluRay product on the market by XMAS. From here we will start to see how the numbers game is played.

Personally, I want both formats to survive and do well. Only with competition will the price of HD players and movies really come down. That is how these new products will move from the early adopters to the general population.

In addition, do you really believe that someone interested in BluRay and seeing the PS3 for $499 with HDMI 1.3 is going to see Toshiba's new HDMI player for $899 a good deal? I don't think so. Sony lost the Beta-VHS war with having the better product but no support. This time , IMO, they have the better product and they also have the numbers on there side. And as usual, flames may begin now, time will tell. XMAS is not that far away.

Oh sure 800,000 American HDTV gamers have waited a year after the HD 360 for the PS3. I wouldnt be half surprised if they all caved in and bought the 360 already, meaning a mere 200 dollar add on literally puts Sony out of business. You are aware that SONY's BD guy was fired over this recently dont you?

 

[T2k]

Ah good stuff. While I agree the XBOX HD DVD addon is a great product, no way 10 mil sold. Heck, it took about a year for there to be 10 mil 360's sold. There probably won't even be 10 mil addons produced this winter (even if every 360 owner wanted one).

PS3, in very good case, will sell out that initial 4-500,000 units - which means if only every 20th-25th 360 owner buys a $200 HD DVD, Sony lost this round of the game again.

The problem with the 360 addon is the same problem with the PS3 as a BR player. Namely game machines play games well. They may also play movies, but they who wants to do that? You can't play a game while you're watching a movie. And, you have to use the horrible interface as well. Yuck, no thanks. Lets all throw away our $50 DVD players and use the PS2 as our main DVD player.

-John

Umm but but but...

an HD DVD player is $400, a Blu-Ray is $800, pal, not $50...

 

[JoeSp]

10,000,000!!! Ha, Ha, I was already awake but those numbers were too funny! I think that M$ pricing the HD-DVD at $199.99 is a good deal. I wish they would have included HDMI -- at least HDMI 1.2a and then you could have passed a native 5.1 lossless signal thru to your receiver. But that would have cost more money -- but VGA for 1080p? Can HDTV's doing 1080p and have VGA inputs do 1080p thru that input here in the states?

Since I know I will be purchasing a XBOX360 after the internal HD-DVD player/combo comes out I wonder if they will include HDMI in that unit? Now that will be a nice product to purchase.

T2k, if every 20th to 25th 360 owner purchases a HD-DVD player you might be correct in the numbers game for players but not the numbers game for movies. And if Disney stays with BluRay (they have just recently stated their resolve for BluRay) then families will only be looking at BluRay. But, there has never in the history of electronics been that big of purchase on a add-on to a console. The real number is more like 1 out of every 500 owners. Those numbers would equate more to a 60,000 to 70,000 HD-DVD sale for M$. Let's say they do twice as well as any other add-on -- 140,000 units is nothing to sneeze at and I believe that by XMAS this is the truer number you will be looking at.

Remember, no games will be playing on that HD-DVD drive so only those with a HDTV will be making the purchase. If the current adoptiion number for HDTV's is correct (about 12%) then that same number should hold true for customers available that own XBOX360s and would want a HD-DVD drive with their 360s. That is 12% of 360 owners are using their 360 with a HDTV and if they have not already purchased a Toshiba for $499 might be interested in M$ HD-DVD drive.

My problem with M$ HD-DVD drive is that without 5.1 analog out (which I doubt the drive has) you can not pass the HD audio codecs out to your receiver. The only other way is thru the HDMI port and there is none on the M$ HD-DVD drive. And last I checked, there is no 5.1 analog out on the XBOX360. If what I say is true, whether or not this drive can pass 1080p is moot -- no high def sound will make this unit a cripple in the HD movie viewing arena!

 

[jgantert]

an HD DVD player is $400, a Blu-Ray is $800, pal, not $50...

I was referring to SD DVD and PS2. Trying to show how popular it is to play SD DVD movies on the PS2, since the PS3 will use the same interface to play BR.

-John

 

[teamerickson]

Remember, no games will be playing on that HD-DVD drive so only those with a HDTV will be making the purchase.

No games on the HD DVD drive?

 

[T2k]

10,000,000!!! Ha, Ha, I was already awake but those numbers were too funny! I think that M$ pricing the HD-DVD at $199.99 is a good deal. I wish they would have included HDMI -- at least HDMI 1.2a and then you could have passed a native 5.1 lossless signal thru to your receiver. But that would have cost more money -- but VGA for 1080p? Can HDTV's doing 1080p and have VGA inputs do 1080p thru that input here in the states?

Since I know I will be purchasing a XBOX360 after the internal HD-DVD player/combo comes out I wonder if they will include HDMI in that unit? Now that will be a nice product to purchase.

T2k, if every 20th to 25th 360 owner purchases a HD-DVD player you might be correct in the numbers game for players but not the numbers game for movies. And if Disney stays with BluRay (they have just recently stated their resolve for BluRay) then families will only be looking at BluRay. But, there has never in the history of electronics been that big of purchase on a add-on to a console. The real number is more like 1 out of every 500 owners. Those numbers would equate more to a 60,000 to 70,000 HD-DVD sale for M$. Let's say they do twice as well as any other add-on -- 140,000 units is nothing to sneeze at and I believe that by XMAS this is the truer number you will be looking at.

Remember, no games will be playing on that HD-DVD drive so only those with a HDTV will be making the purchase. If the current adoptiion number for HDTV's is correct (about 12%) then that same number should hold true for customers available that own XBOX360s and would want a HD-DVD drive with their 360s. That is 12% of 360 owners are using their 360 with a HDTV and if they have not already purchased a Toshiba for $499 might be interested in M$ HD-DVD drive.

My problem with M$ HD-DVD drive is that without 5.1 analog out (which I doubt the drive has) you can not pass the HD audio codecs out to your receiver. The only other way is thru the HDMI port and there is none on the M$ HD-DVD drive. And last I checked, there is no 5.1 analog out on the XBOX360. If what I say is true, whether or not this drive can pass 1080p is moot -- no high def sound will make this unit a cripple in the HD movie viewing arena!

You're not making any sense again, Joe - since when it is assured that PS3 owners will flock to buy of those crappy quality PS3 movies? They are gamers, first and foremost and by the way that's the point in 360: the buyers of HD-DVD drive WILL BUY movies - because among all 360 owners the only people spend money on external HD-DVD are the HD movie fans.

HD-DVD gets 'quality' customers whereas PS3 gets mixed crowd - and quantiities look better for HD-DVD...

 

[T2k]

I was referring to SD DVD and PS2. Trying to show how popular it is to play SD DVD movies on the PS2, since the PS3 will use the same interface to play BR.

-John

But that's the point: this analogue doesn't make sense. DVD players cost $50 at every corner, HD players cost more than their respective game consoles.

 

[T2k]

No games on the HD DVD drive?

It plays DVDs as well so it loads games as well.
Joe doesn't know anything about it, he's only spinning the fact that games won't be released on HD-DVD discs for a while, due to the cost (because there's no game that wouldn't fit onto a DVD.)

 

[Jamey K]

I'm not sure if this means anything, but our PS2 is in the basement where the kids hang out. The HD-DVD is player is in the living room with the rest of my HT.

If my kids decide to upgrade to a PS3, I still don't want it where I'm at, BR or not.

 

[JoeSp]

T2k, teamerickson is questioning whether the HD-DVD add-on will play games on the XBOX360. Simple answer is no. It is just for Hd-DVD movie playback. That's what M$ says. Of course they always tell the truth right?

Hey, remember when they said that it was impossible to do games in 1080p and that the PS3 could not do that?:haha Oh yeah, there are games coming out on the PS3 for launch in 1080p and guess what -- Now your XBOX360 can do 1080p too!! :yikes WOW, another truth from M$.

 

[mikley28]

T2k, teamerickson is questioning whether the HD-DVD add-on will play games on the XBOX360. Simple answer is no. It is just for Hd-DVD movie playback. That's what M$ says. Of course they always tell the truth right?

Hey, remember when they said that it was impossible to do games in 1080p and that the PS3 could not do that?:haha Oh yeah, there are games coming out on the PS3 for launch in 1080p and guess what -- Now your XBOX360 can do 1080p too!! :yikes WOW, another truth from M$.

SO... Let me get this straight... You claim that MS is lying alot. You also say that MS said that the HD-DVD player will NOT be used for games. Now if MS lies alot then they are lying about the HD-DVD player not playing games? Is that what you are trying to say? In the gaming industry things change. They made that statement before the leaked rumor that they were planning a 360 with an internal HD-DVD drive. Now if it were internal don't you think its common sense that it COULD be used for games as well? MS is just providing the hardware platform and licensing to 3rd parties. Its up to the developers to create content.