Over the air... really?

[Asket]

Yeah "Is that legal?" Get that a lot. The Dorkaphone crowd has 0 understanding of just about anything other than chasing Pokemon or whatever. It is amazing how dumbed down people are now. There are 130 OTA channels in my area all free many of which are the same ones on cable etc. You really don't need most of them what with supersize LOGO and advertising bugs all over the screen making it impossible to enjoy the programming. And they pay for this repetitive garbage??? How bad off can they be?

 

[harshness]

How bad off can they be?

If you've examined the situation in the San Francisco Bay Area (where this topic started), it can be pretty bad. OTA for some is great but for others, it is next to impossible. The hills above Oakland put quite a damper on reception to the east while the south hills are their own reception treat. While some, such as yourself, live in a valley with a good chance at line-of-sight, others live in hills where things aren't so easy.

If you think about it statistically, half of the people on every good-sized hill are on the wrong side and the fact that UHF doesn't bend well makes it worse.

Cable and satellite bring channels to the have-nots and some of the haves that couldn't be otherwise bothered to jump through what may be substantial hoops of receiving DTV.

Then there's the unspoken side of the coin where, in more than a few cases, the pay TV PQ is better than the OTA PQ because it comes from a direct feed and doesn't have to share bandwidth with 1-4 subchannels.

 

[navychop]

Wyoming? There are still people there? I thought they closed that state.

 

[comfortably_numb]

Yeah "Is that legal?" Get that a lot. The Dorkaphone crowd has 0 understanding of just about anything other than chasing Pokemon or whatever. It is amazing how dumbed down people are now. There are 130 OTA channels in my area all free many of which are the same ones on cable etc. You really don't need most of them what with supersize LOGO and advertising bugs all over the screen making it impossible to enjoy the programming. And they pay for this repetitive garbage??? How bad off can they be?

Many of them don't have any kind of standard pay TV. My younger brother is in that overhyped "Millenial" age group. He uses OTA, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc. Has absolutely no desire to pay for Dish, Direct etc. Haven't talked to him about Sling or DTVNOW so I don't know his thoughts on that, but many in his age range are doing the same thing. Most use all IP-based content. They're a lot smarter with technology than you might think and they're willing to try new tech also. They just don't see a necessity in paying a lot of money for TV packages.


Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!

 

[harshness]

They just don't see a necessity in paying a lot of money for TV packages.

Given the current state of television, I can't say I disagree. They keep asking more and delivering less.

 

[EarDemon]

Yeah "Is that legal?" Get that a lot. The Dorkaphone crowd has 0 understanding of just about anything other than chasing Pokemon or whatever. It is amazing how dumbed down people are now. There are 130 OTA channels in my area all free many of which are the same ones on cable etc. You really don't need most of them what with supersize LOGO and advertising bugs all over the screen making it impossible to enjoy the programming. And they pay for this repetitive garbage??? How bad off can they be?

Which ones?

 

[localclassictvfan]

Why do you have to try to hijack every thread towards being about you?

I'll just leave it alone....bye

 

[Ian416]

I've gotten the "isn't it illegal?" response here in Toronto. I point to the CN Tower and say, "Yes, the tallest free-standing structure in the Western hemisphere is actually a criminal enterprise. The police have it surrounded."

When I ride the bus, I always keep my eye open for new installations. It's always funny when you see two houses side-by-side with the exact same antenna. "What's that Bob?" "We reduced our TV bill to $0." "Can you show me how?"

 

[Asket]

If you've examined the situation in the San Francisco Bay Area (where this topic started), it can be pretty bad. OTA for some is great but for others, it is next to impossible. The hills above Oakland put quite a damper on reception to the east while the south hills are their own reception treat. While some, such as yourself, live in a valley with a good chance at line-of-sight, others live in hills where things aren't so easy.

If you think about it statistically, half of the people on every good-sized hill are on the wrong side and the fact that UHF doesn't bend well makes it worse.

Cable and satellite bring channels to the have-nots and some of the haves that couldn't be otherwise bothered to jump through what may be substantial hoops of receiving DTV.

Then there's the unspoken side of the coin where, in more than a few cases, the pay TV PQ is better than the OTA PQ because it comes from a direct feed and doesn't have to share bandwidth with 1-4 subchannels.

I have seen many cable and Sat services and other than 4DTV which is gone all of them degrade the signal. Of course HBO seems immune to that but otherwise not really worth it. OTA is the best if you can get it but television available now from any source is so contaminated with logos and popups and inane commercials it is hardly worth ones time. I buy the shows I like when I can on DVD and watch it the way in which it is actually entertaining and not a chore.

 

[Asket]

Many of them don't have any kind of standard pay TV. My younger brother is in that overhyped "Millenial" age group. He uses OTA, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc. Has absolutely no desire to pay for Dish, Direct etc. Haven't talked to him about Sling or DTVNOW so I don't know his thoughts on that, but many in his age range are doing the same thing. Most use all IP-based content. They're a lot smarter with technology than you might think and they're willing to try new tech also. They just don't see a necessity in paying a lot of money for TV packages.


Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!

The Dorkaphone crowd does not necessarily include just "Millennials" whatever that new speak means. Many people take "new" technology and abuse and misuse it. They end up falling into subway tracks etc while..... well you know. They have 0 understanding how things work and don't care to!

 

[harshness]

I have seen many cable and Sat services and other than 4DTV which is gone all of them degrade the signal.

As does having an HD subchannel or more than one SD subchannel.

In the event that the pay service gets a direct feed, the pay PQ may be as good or better than the OTA feed. My local Comcast signal for our ABC affiliate (KATU) is usually at least as good as the OTA feed that has three streams.

 

[comfortably_numb]

As does having an HD subchannel or more than one SD subchannel.

In the event that the pay service gets a direct feed, the pay PQ may be as good or better than the OTA feed. My local Comcast signal for our ABC affiliate (KATU) is usually at least as good as the OTA feed that has three streams.

Wouldn't you need to have some way to measure the quality of that stream in order to make a comparison? For example, you can measure the throughput of an OTA signal. KCTV is 19.8 mbps. But how can you tell what bandwidth Comast is streaming it at? It may indeed *look* the same quality, but might not be..

 

[osu1991]

Wouldn't you need to have some way to measure the quality of that stream in order to make a comparison? For example, you can measure the throughput of an OTA signal. KCTV is 19.8 mbps. But how can you tell what bandwidth Comast is streaming it at? It may indeed *look* the same quality, but might not be..

Depending on the cable system, you can see it with a Tivo.
I see
11.0Mbps from ABC 1280x720p
10.2Mbps NBC 1920x1080i
13.1mbps Fox 1280x720p
7.5Mbps from Hallmark 1920x1080i
6.5Mbps from Velocity 1920x1080i
11.0Mbps FoodNetwork 1920x1080i

 

[harshness]

It may indeed *look* the same quality, but might not be..

If it looks the same or better, what else matters?

 

[comfortably_numb]

If it looks the same or better, what else matters?

Because that's subjective. What looks good to you might not look good to me!

 

[harshness]

Because that's subjective. What looks good to you might not look good to me!

Will adding technical data prove which is visually more appealing to the average consumer?

In the grand scheme, bandwidth is not equal to quality. You can compress with high bandwidth demands and still produce a lousy product. There are many trade secrets (and even some patents) involved in reducing bandwidth requirements without obviously sacrificing quality.

 

[mdonnelly]

Well, with NFL Divisional Playoffs weekend coming up, and Griffin stations in Oklahoma still in a dispute with dish, I'm glad that I have my OTA antenna.

If you look hard enough on the KWTV website you can find one line that says what OTA channel the station is on, but you have to dig hard. I couldn't find a suggestion to use OTA anywhere in their pleas for Dish subs to call Dish and demand refunds. They want the money, not necessarily the viewers.

 

[comfortably_numb]

Will adding technical data prove which is visually more appealing to the average consumer?

In the grand scheme, bandwidth is not equal to quality. You can compress with high bandwidth demands and still produce a lousy product. There are many trade secrets (and even some patents) involved in reducing bandwidth requirements without obviously sacrificing quality.

I don't know why anybody, myself included, ever responds to your posts. You always have to come back with some kind of contrary view, no matter what the subject is. I guess that's why you refer to yourself as "Harsh," right?

 

[osu1991]

Well, with NFL Divisional Playoffs weekend coming up, and Griffin stations in Oklahoma still in a dispute with dish, I'm glad that I have my OTA antenna.

If you look hard enough on the KWTV website you can find one line that says what OTA channel the station is on, but you have to dig hard. I couldn't find a suggestion to use OTA anywhere in their pleas for Dish subs to call Dish and demand refunds. They want the money, not necessarily the viewers.

Did you see the new BS personal plea from David Griffin on the websites now. Saying they didn't pull the signal, Dish did, then turns around in the next sentence and says leaving the stations up with an extension would have just postponed the inevitable.

I see Griffin got themselves added to PSVue now. I've heard advertisers are starting to pull out, but I expect this to last a while. This will be 3 weeks with no CBS NFL games in Tulsa or OKC on Dish covering 3/4 of the State.

 

[harshness]

You always have to come back with some kind of contrary view, no matter what the subject is.

So do you believe that bitrate is unconditionally (or even occasionally) a better indicator of PQ than your own eyes for your purposes?