OTA not the best way!!

[JoeSp]

I have constantly read posts about those who can get OTA HD from local providers and those that can not. You who can receive them I salute you. You are very fortunate. You are also very naive! That's right -- those of you who receive your HD signals have no idea what is currently going on in the broadcast community.

First, not all stations are broadcasting HD even if their signal is digital. Second, not all stations are using PSIP correctly which causes signal loss and/or information loss between signal and receiver. Third, they are all not at full power even though they were supposed to be at full power at the end of Feburary this year.

I feel for those who can not receive a constant digital signal for their OTA HD stations. It is not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. I had a installer come out who gaureenteed me that he would be able to receive the three stations that I either can not receive or cannot receive constantly. He took one look at my setup and bowwed out. He simply stated that he could not do anything more than I had already done to receive the signals.

Let's face it, only half of the people who live in an area where their digital signals are at full strength can receive them all. So when someone post that they can not receive their HD-LIL signals I understand exactly what they are talking about. Local HD - LIL is very important and I am going to make a prediction here --- and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. Whoever puts HD-LIL up first is going to take alot of business away from the other one. They will get my dollars for service as soon as they start broadcasting HD-LIL in my area -- Raleigh, NC. I am willing to bet that they will get alot of other individuals dollars too. How else could digital cable with a poorer picture and less stations be gaining in populartity -- HD - LIL is what will drive future and current subscribers to a provider.

 

[SatinKzo]

OTA being free is still better than paying for HD locals, IMO. But I would pay for HD locals if they were all carried by someone that I can get service from. The current trend I have seen is that affiliates are wanting to charge a fee to cable and satellite for their HD signal and both companies have bawked at the idea.

Case in point being my local cable company has all locals in HD except CBS. The local affliate provides the SD signal, but wants to charge for the HD signal. The cable company refuses to pay extra so no CBS HD on cable. I can get it free OTA though, so I don't care.

 

[mdonnelly]

I feel for you, since I've been through Raleigh, and I know the terrain. Here in OKC, if anybody within 50 miles of the towers isn't getting the big 4 in digital OTA, they just aren't trying. I would think Dallas would be the same, most of Denver, the LA basin, and any other place with a relativly flat terrain.

I'm really glad to get the OTA stations, 'cause I sure don't want to shell out more bucks to E* for overcompressed, bit-starved HD locals.

 

[boy921]

I have constantly read posts about those who can get OTA HD from local providers and those that can not. You who can receive them I salute you. You are very fortunate. You are also very naive! That's right -- those of you who receive your HD signals have no idea what is currently going on in the broadcast community.

First, not all stations are broadcasting HD even if their signal is digital. Second, not all stations are using PSIP correctly which causes signal loss and/or information loss between signal and receiver. Third, they are all not at full power even though they were supposed to be at full power at the end of Feburary this year.

I feel for those who can not receive a constant digital signal for their OTA HD stations. It is not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. I had a installer come out who gaureenteed me that he would be able to receive the three stations that I either can not receive or cannot receive constantly. He took on look at my setup and bowwed out. He simply stated that he could not do anything more than I had already done to receive the signals.

Let's face it, only half of the people who live in an area where their digital signals are at full strength can receive them all. So when someone post that they can not receive their HD-LIL signals I understand exactly what they are talking about. Local HD - LIL is very important and I am going to make a prediction here --- and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. Whoever puts HD-LIL up first is going to take alot of business away from the other one. They will get my dollars for service as soon as they start broadcasting HD-LIL in my area -- Raleigh, NC. I am willing to bet that they will get alot of other individuals dollars too. How else could digital cable with a poorer picture and less stations be gaining in populartity -- HD - LIL is what will drive future and current subscribers to a provider.

I'll drink to that! Only one and 1/2 out of five stations in my area does HD. They all do digital but at 480i and having contacted the non-HD stations, they have a strong, don't care about it attitude because of the expense they will have to incur. They feel that they are unfairly being forced. Podunk mentality.

 

[keith]

How else could digital cable with a poorer picture and less stations be gaining in populartity -- HD - LIL is what will drive future and current subscribers to a provider.

You also overlooked another factor which works against OTA. For many, good OTA reception needs a large antenna. The Dish dish isn't too intrusive, but put up a 10 foot long ugly stick and it's a whole new level of inconvenience. I just can't see most homeowners going backwards to install ugly outdoor antennas anytime soon. Getting all your OTA's with rabbit ears or the mediocre antennas that clip onto a dish is just not happening for most people.

 

[bhawley]

other one. They will get my dollars for service as soon as they start broadcasting HD-LIL in my area -- Raleigh, NC.

Joe, what area of Raleigh are you and what antenna setup do you have?
I am in the Clayton area.

 

[Cyclone]

You who can receive them I salute you. You are very fortunate. You are also very naive! That's right -- those of you who receive your HD signals have no idea what is currently going on in the broadcast community.

I am naive because I can receive OTA in a solid fashion? Not only that, but I have no idea what's going on. hehe. Some of us keep very well informed on the status of our local Digital stations thank you very much.

But I do want to point a few things out.

1. DBS providers currently compress the local SD channels horribly. Do you really think that the fat bandwidth HD channels won't also be compromised?

2. Before "Must carry", DBS providers only cherry picked which channels in a market to carry. Must Carry doesn't apply to Digital channels at this time. Do you think that you'll get all of the digitial signals in your market?

3. "First, not all stations are broadcasting HD even if their signal is digital.", you say. Well, what makes you think that if Dish carries your market's digitial signals, that these rouge stations will be HD for you as opposed to OTA? If a WXYZ-DT hasn't bought the HDTV equipment for their station, they can't show HDTV programming. Regardless of whether its OTA or DBS transmissions carrying the signal.

4. Dish currently charges for local channels. They also charge extra for the HDTV pack. Do you really think that the HDTV locals from Dish won't include an additional premium fee?

5. How will DBS handle sub-channels? With OTA they are available immediately. Will we have to "wait" for dish to add them to the channel lineup? Will they even carry sub-channels?

HD LIL still has a lot of unanswered questions out there before you can go smacking OTA folks over the head with it.

heheh, Naive.... hehee, good one.

 

[TuxCoder]

Indeed, Cyclone

 

[GaryPen]

Cyclone's points #3 and #5 are especially strong ones to counter Joe's mostly incorrect POV. One thing he forgot to add is that even at 480i, digital OTA broadcasts look orders of magnitude better than Dish's horribly compressed SD locals.

I personally don't care that most of my local stations have no plans to go HDTV. Most of their programming doesn't require it.

 

[boy921]

Yes they do over compress the DMA Lil's! They look crappy as compared to the OTA digitals. MPEG-4 will vastly improve the crappy compression picture that we currently suffer when viewing.

1. DBS providers currently compress the local SD channels horribly. Do you really think that the fat bandwidth HD channels won't also be compromised?

I doubt that they will every get all DMA HD locals. However, I think that the FCC will allow those who live in areas where some of the DMA channels don't provide HD, to get HD from another DMA until the local provides HD. I think that it should be allowable for E* to provide HD network broadcasts to those who live in areas where the stations don't provide HD.

3. "First, not all stations are broadcasting HD even if their signal is digital.", you say. Well, what makes you think that if Dish carries your market's digitial signals, that these rouge stations will be HD for you as opposed to OTA? If a WXYZ-DT hasn't bought the HDTV equipment for their station, they can't show HDTV programming. Regardless of whether its OTA or DBS transmissions carrying the signal.

I currently pay E* for the lil in my DMA . I expect to pay for them if and when they are carried in HD

4. Dish currently charges for local channels. They also charge extra for the HDTV pack. Do you really think that the HDTV locals from Dish won't include an additional premium fee?

I doubt that they will handle many sub-channels. I suspect that they will only carry those that qualify E*'s, "Compelling Content" rule.

5. How will DBS handle sub-channels? With OTA they are available immediately. Will we have to "wait" for dish to add them to the channel lineup? Will they even carry sub-channels?

 

[BFG]

yeah...

sure...

you betcha...

 

[NightRyder]

I don't care about HD-LIL (I think it's a terrible waste of bandwidth) but I do want HD Networks available on E* (besides CBS), Just NY and LA would be fine, but most of all I want the FCC to get off their fat collective ass and define digital white areas so I can qualify for them when they become available.


NightRyder

 

[PhillyOTA]

OTA is very simple in some markets/locations.

OTA is incredibly complex in others. These locations require the "art" that you can't get on antennaweb.org

OTA is the best way to get your locals in most MAJOR markets.

Eddie

 

[enoree]

I get 16 DT stations from 3 different markets with ALL networks doing HD availible to me, my local market has only the UPN station not doing HD and they plan on doing it soon, and best of all its FREE and not compressed anything like SAT HD is.

 

[NightRyder]

OTA is very simple in some markets/locations.

OTA is incredibly complex in others. These locations require the "art" that you can't get on antennaweb.org

OTA is the best way to get your locals in most MAJOR markets.

Eddie

Add - OTA is IMPOSSIBLE in many areas regardless of skill (art?) or want.


NightRyder

 

[JoeSp]

Joe, what area of Raleigh are you and what antenna setup do you have?
I am in the Clayton area.

I live in South Granville county -- it is a Wake Forest address. I work in Raleigh. I have a CM4228 35ft in the air. I use a power amplifier and my run from the antenna to the 811 is about 60 ft. This my third antenna and it gets the best reception yet but I still cannot get channels 22, 28 , or 17 consistantly.

As for reception of OTA digital signals I will agree that they are better OTA than a condensed signal from a cable or satellite provider. However, when you cannot receive them anyway you can get them is better than nothing.

 

[Jordan420]

Yes they do over compress the DMA Lil's! They look crappy as compared to the OTA digitals. MPEG-4 will vastly improve the crappy compression picture that we currently suffer when viewing.

You will not see many of the small markets locals in MPEG-4 for a looooong time, if ever.

There are just way too many non MPEG-4 receivers out there for E* to replace them all.

 

[boy921]

You will not see many of the small markets locals in MPEG-4 for a looooong time, if ever.

There are just way too many non MPEG-4 receivers out there for E* to replace them all.

One nice thing about OTA, they don't have the compression woes as does satellite. Currenty OTA as compared to Satellite is much better and I see no hurry for a quick conversion in the local market. E* will plan for and do a good job in switching over to MPEG-4. Currently the majority of their subscribers are 4:3 480i regular TV's. No need to hurry with that majority.