OTA Locals - SubChannels Guide Display and updates

[Hall]

Dish gets the guide data from Tribune Media.

And Tribune has the data published yet it mysteriously disappears once they hand it off to Dish...

 

[D. Manley]

My local CW guide data was dropped when it was just moved to a new subchannel. Emailed Dish Quality & they said sorry, not happening. At the same time this happened the local ABC affiliate also changed to the subchannel previously occupied by the CW - it retained guide data & CW did not so it appears any changes other than the prime affiliates will be lost if change is made locally to them. My local CW is now fairly worthless minus the guide.

 

[hdrick103]

From what I understand if the channel is not on this list it not going to happen. These are the ONLY channels that have guided data loaded in my DMA. I called the local affiliates and they say they OTA data streams are working fine. It is up to Dish Network to maintain the OTA data on their receivers not them.

OTA Program Guide Data:
2-01 WKRN TSID 0x0A9F, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6340/8550)
2-02 WKRN2 TSID 0x0A9F, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14191)
4-01 WSMV TSID 0x0AA1, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6342/8552)
5-01 WTVF TSID 0x0AA3, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6341/8551)
5-02 WTVF2 TSID 0x0AA3, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14192)
8-01 WNPT TSID 0x0AA5, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6346/8556)
8-02 WNPT2 TSID 0x0AA5, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14807)
17-01 WZTV TSID 0x0AA7, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6343/8553)
17-02 WZTV2 TSID 0x0AA7, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 15349)
22-01 WCTE TSID 0x0A6D, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6345/8561)
22-02 WCTE2 TSID 0x0A6D, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 15122)
30-01 WUXP TSID 0x0AA9, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6344/8555)
39-01 WHTN TSID 0x0A9D, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 8557)
58-01 WNAB TSID 0x0AAB, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6347/8554)
66-01 WJFB TSID 0x0A8B, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 8560)

 

[Mr Tony]

and Dish wont add anything. Heck in some cases they wont even CHANGE anything. Minneapolis had a station switch its PSIP info and Dish still hasnt changed it. Oh that was like 3 YEARS ago

 

[hdrick103]

and Dish wont add anything. Heck in some cases they wont even CHANGE anything. Minneapolis had a station switch its PSIP info and Dish still hasnt changed it. Oh that was like 3 YEARS ago

Yes it appears to have stopped soon after Networks started getting paid for their channels. Dish may not be allowed to add channel data, with all the new agreements.

 

[Hall]

Dish may not be allowed to add channel data, with all the new agreements.

If they're truly adding it, that may be the case. If they're replacing, that's a different story. Everything I've seen says that if they REPLACE a channel, the guide data should work with the new channel. For example, the local CBS had a weather channel on 7-2 and it showed guide data. About two months ago, they switched to MyTV or METV - did the switch at midnight. When I looked in the morning around 7am, it was showing MyTV or METV guide data.

 

[Mr Tony]

exactly Hall. In those cases as long as the guide info from Tribune is updated, then the correct guide info should be too

 

[TheKrell]

My local Megahertz Network channels are so screwed up on Dish it isn't funny. They broadcast 12 SD international channels from 2 RF transmitters using one virtual channel number (30). Dish provides the .1 main channel from both transmitters via sat, but both channel numbers show the original RF channels and not those currently used by Megahertz Network since the transition! How many years has that been? Of course the 10 subchannels Dish doesn't provide have no guide information.

 

[Mr Tony]

They broadcast 12 SD international channels from 2 RF transmitters using one virtual channel number (30).

That is how it is in Minneapolis. There are 3 examples of this and dish has ALL of them wrong (bolded ones)

2-01 KTCA TSID 0x0645, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6353/8576)
2-04 KTCI4 TSID 0x0645, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14063)
4-01 WCCO TSID 0x0631, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6348/8571)
5-01 KSTP TSID 0x0647, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6347/8570)
9-04 KMSP2 TSID 0x0633, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14787)***
9-09 KMSP TSID 0x0633, Subchannel 09 (DISH Channel 6350/8573)***
11-01 KARE TSID 0x0635, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6349/8572)
11-02 KARE2 TSID 0x0635, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14785)
17-03 KTCI TSID 0x0649, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 6352/8580)SHOULD BE 2-3
23-01 WUCW TSID 0x0637, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 6354/8574)
29-01 WFTC2 TSID 0x0639, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 14789)SHOULD BE 9-2
29-02 WFTC TSID 0x0639, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 6351/8575)SHOULD BE 9-1
45-03 KSTC3 TSID 0x063B, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 14229)SHOULD BE 5-3
45-04 KSTC2 TSID 0x063B, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14230)SHOULD BE 5-4
45-45 KSTC TSID 0x063B, Subchannel 45 (DISH Channel 8577)SHOULD BE 5-2

Here is what makes it even goofier is on June 24th KMSP changed their PSIP from 9-1 to 9-9 and Bounce moved from 29-3 to 9-4 AND THOSE CHANGES WERE MADE. PBS (2) made the changes oh 4+ years ago. 5 & 45 merged together maybe 3 years ago

(yes Fox is on 2 RF stations in Minneapolis. RF29 for the folks who are UHF only and RF9 for the folks in the outer parts of the metro with outdoor antennas)

 

[foghorn2]

Here Dish is here in Vegas touting their equipment when NOW they cant even fix simple OTA sub channel guides RIGHT HERE IN VEGAS, THE HOME OF CES!!!

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/las-vegas-ota-subchannel-guide-inaccurate.344381/

 

[hdrick103]

Has dish given up on adding Sub Channel Guide info. for Local DMA's? Seems like I read where that the Dirt teams was working on this issue. Dirt was requesting which channels in your DMA do not have current or up to date channel grid info provided Listed are the sub channels in the Nashville DMA that are not updated or current.

02-3-Justice
04-2-Escape
04-3-COZITV
05-3-Laff
17-3-AntennaTV
30-2-GETTV
30-3-CometTV
40-1-Buzzer
58-2-American Sports Network
58-3-GRIT

 

[Hall]

Has dish given up on adding Sub Channel Guide info

Yes, they gave up on these years ago.

 

[Peter Parker]

Pretty strange results here in DC. Some subchannels like Comet got guide data as soon as they were added to a particular channel. Sometimes the guide data is dropped when a channel simply goes from -2 to -3. Sometimes when a subchannel moves from one station to another the guide data follows so to speak. Other times it is dropped.

I believe the Seinfeld Soup Nazi is involved in the decision making.

 

[The Fat Man]

Actually, I heard that Dish was going to start to provide guide info for American Sports Net...seeing that it's going out of buisness.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using the SatelliteGuys app!

 

[Hall]

Pretty strange results here in DC

Yes, there does seem to be a few circumstances where they do update the information but these are clearly the exception and not the rule.

Some subchannels like Comet got guide data as soon as they were added to a particular channel

Every 'change' is different or can be different. It's confusing as hell ! In this case, if the sub-channel already existed and Dish was providing guide data for it, simply changing networks shouldn't 'break' anything. If a station adds a -3, -4, etc sub-channel that didn't exist before, as a general rule, you will not get guide data.

 

[mwdxer1]

I bought a little stand alone digital tuner box that receives all of my OTA channels. The EPG goes out about 24 hours and it shows the guides for all OTA channels, so it is easy to check the schedule for a local OTA channel. Beyond that, I go online. The tuner box I use a thumb drive to record and thing OTA I want. Not as convenient as Dish, but it does work. When the 4th channel was added to our PBS station (PBS Kids), the .4 no longer shows the guide on Dish. It is radio only so it doesn't matter much.

 

[Timr]

Yes, they gave up on these years ago.

DISH finally fixed the subchannel info for WSBT 22-2 from the South Bend market 2 days ago. I had no Guide info for months. They also recently started providing info for WMEU 48-1 in Chicago which used to say 'Digital Service' until a few months ago. I still have no EPG for Metv, Decades, Escape etc.

 

[pattykay]

Every 'change' is different or can be different. It's confusing as hell ! In this case, if the sub-channel already existed and Dish was providing guide data for it, simply changing networks shouldn't 'break' anything. If a station adds a -3, -4, etc sub-channel that didn't exist before, as a general rule, you will not get guide data.

There are even cases where the station didn't change anything, but the guide data still got broken. When Dish first started carrying WMFD Mansfield, Ohio (Cleveland, Ohio DMA) they correctly mapped the guide data from the satellite-delivered 012-00 (matching WMFD's digital RF channel number) to the OTA 068-01 (WMFD's virtual channel number since they used to broadcast in analog on channel 68). Some time shortly after that, the link for the OTA guide data got broken, and it has never been fixed since then. Dish has been carrying WMFD in standard-def since 2009, and they have even been carrying the HD feed for quite awhile now, but the OTA guide data has said "Digital Service" this whole time. When WMFD converted to digital, they started out with only two digital channels (068-01 and 068-02) and they have never added or dropped any sub-channels since then. Dish has never carried 068-02 (a simulcast of WOHZ 041-01 which Dish also never carried) so I don't expect OTA guide data for that channel, which mostly just shows local weather. However, it would be nice if Dish would fix the OTA guide data for 068-01 which Dish does carry. (I think the fact that Dish puts WMFD on channel 012-00 is partly what is confusing Dish about providing the OTA guide data.)

 

[zippyfrog]

They also recently started providing info for WMEU 48-1 in Chicago which used to say 'Digital Service' until a few months ago. I still have no EPG for Metv, Decades, Escape etc.

I think they put the guide data in when they added channel 48 to the locals in Chicago, which was a couple of months back (maybe the fall?)

 

[Hall]

There are even cases where the station didn't change anything, but the guide data still got broken

In a case like that, and this is just a possibility, the TV station may have changed the TSID of the sub-channel(s). This is just part of the data carried in the PSIP stream - users, TVs, etc are generally oblivious to this. Your TV will still pick up the channel with no re-scan needed, a satellite receiver with OTA capabilities won't have any glitch either. The problem though is that Dish uses that TSID as the key piece of data for matching the guide data they buy from their guide data provider to the channels that our receivers pick up. For example,

Channel TSID
068-02 = 0x08F2 < everything matches, guide data shows up

If the station changes the TSID to 0x08F3, everything breaks.

In the past, someone at Dish simply updated the 'database' and the guide data would show up again. They no longer do that.

My local PBS has been broken since the official digital transition. Dish had the guide data set up properly at one point, but on the 'switch' day, the PBS station swapped two of the sub-channels. No one updated it and to this day, it's wrong. In the case of these two channels, it's not that they simply say "WPTD" or "Digital Service", they have the other's guide data !