OTA Info in EPG

[digiblur]

I have no reason to defend anyone nor am I avoiding a subject. If you are looking for numbers and not picture comparisons then here they are.

DirecTV gets about 38 megabit out of each KA TP and runs 5 HD MPEG4 streams. DishNetwork gets about 41 megabit out of each 8PSK TP and runs 7 HD MPEG4 streams. Some will say due to the numbers alone that DirecTV looks better but theres too many other factors in play...channels muxed together, encoder types, etc.

You'll have to find an unbiased person with both DirecTV and DishNetwork on the same set. Good luck...

 

[MikeD-C05]

Hello I am that person. I have both DISH and DIrectv in HD on the same input using hdmi over an hdmi selector with Tolink dolby digital sound. Directv has the slight edge to me over DISH on most hd channels. DISH has the better dvr than DIRECTV in my opinon. DIRECTV has about 9 more hd channels that DISH doesn't with the exception of SPorts where DIRECTV rules. In the end I think that DISH is slightly more compressed on their hd channels than DIRECTV due to the 7 hd channels on the same transponder. DISH looks a little more softer than Directv on hd . Funny thing is that DISH has always looked a bit softer on sd channels as well compared to DIRECTV , where the sd looked sharper but with more artifacts in the background. I am betting that DIRECTv would do the same thing with 7 on one transponder, if they could figure out how to do the compression like DISH. THey both compress the sh*t out of the sd channels. So advantage DIRECTV on HD Picture quality , DISH advantage on their hd dvrs( 622/722/612) over DIRECTV's hr 21 dvr. DIRECTV has MORE hd channels than DISH in both regular and Sports. I expect DISH to remedy that, with the exception of more exclusive sports, once they launch the eastern arc and more sats moved to 72.7 and possibly to 77 . NO ADVANTAGE to either company on SD channels- they both suck.

 

[GaryPen]

Thanks Mike. It sounds like the DishHD pack might be worth considering, then. The dbs SD channels become irrelevant, as I was going to use OTA for locals, anyway.

If I was going to go with a ful package, D* certainly has the advantage in price/programming value. But, for only $30 for E*'s package of HD channels, combined with the pristine quality of OTA digital and HD, this sounds like a very viable option for me. Plus, E* has TV Japan, with no guarantee of it ever getting to D*. The icing would be the Sling features of a future 722 "S", as we have a Slingbox in Japan, and it would be great to receive the streams directly into the sat box.

Thanks again.

 

[FCom911]

Is E* still making you pay extra to sub to locals in order to get OTA local guide info?

Also, have they added digital subchannel info yet?

EDIT: I do not pay for locals into locals. All my locals are captured via rooftop antenna and viewed via 722.

I have 21 OTA stations that are processed through my 722 (large-capacity HHD, circa 2007/2008).

Not one station's program content, ratings, or schedule is presented via the 722's DTV tuner(s), ONLY channel's ID.

Some of you are reporting or alluding to, your STBs are presenting some program information, etc from stations via the STBs DTV tuner without local into local subscription. I wish those who are actually recipients of such service would state their STB model(s). As for my situation, with my 722 capturing 21 OTA stations, you'd figure I'd see something, if it were inclusive.

At present, there is an active Senate investigation into the willful withholding of mandated stream content that is also supported by the NAB. TVs and all STBs with DTV tuners as of 2007 and 2006 must provide a minimum of mandated tuner services.

It is my belief, Dish faces potential fines and will be forced into compliance, regarding the public's interests (or they'll get with the game and comply avoiding eventual complicity) . Of central topic, the complaint sights the willful withholding of ratings services and content information, subverting v-chip mandates set into place to protect children (although be it, the true intent of the complaint is to require Dish to provide mandated services in leu of circumvention for profit).

 

[GaryPen]

I don't think anybody stated they received the guide info without subbing to Dish Locals. It was established at the top of the thread that it is required, in order to get the local guide info.

But, I do agree that it is a load of BS to have to pay for channels I will not watch, in order to get guide info for channels that the receiver is designed to receive. I hope that Dish decides it is technically easier to provide the guide info for free, rather than integrate PSIP guide info from the OTA broadcast, as the traditional EPG info is generally more desirable, if the gov't decides to enforce the rule. (More detail, 14-days in advance, etc.)

 

[Hall]

FCom, What market do you live in ? Do you pay for locals ? If Dish carries your local NBC, for example, you will get the guide data for the main "-01" digital channel (and -02, -03, and so on, if applicable).

 

[LER]

you won't necessarily get all the data for the subchannels. Only if Dish deigns to turn it on. See for example my post about KEYE-DT2 (42-2 here in Austin).

 

[vr005]

I have 21 OTA stations that are processed through my 722 (large-capacity HHD, circa 2007/2008).

Not one station's program content, ratings, or schedule is presented via the 722's DTV tuner(s), ONLY channel's ID.

I have the local channel package, on the 722, scan for local shown 17 OTA stations, press Select all, Done - writing to memory. But only 12 of the 17 channels shows up on the EPG! Channels not offer by Dish never show up on the EPG since day 1 (not even the channel numbers), although the sub-channels of the main do show up with descriptions. Lately, I do get a lot of DTV program without descriptions on those sub-channels.

I called tech support but was told "OTA is not part of DISH programming and we don't support it, if you wish to have a tech come out and help fix your problem, there will be a $45 charge"

I switched to Dish many years ago because of the OTA tunner built into all dish receivers and the ability to use the PVR with it.

With 1/2 of HD cahnnels gone and the lost of OTA programming for PVR, there really is no reason for me to stay with Dish.

 

[FCom911]

FCom, What market do you live in ? Do you pay for locals ? If Dish carries your local NBC, for example, you will get the guide data for the main "-01" digital channel (and -02, -03, and so on, if applicable).

Sacramento DMA; I take all my Locals via OTA, I don't pay local into local. All that is provided via the 722 as far as informations is the PSIP Channel ID.

 

[FCom911]

I have the local channel package, on the 722, scan for local shown 17 OTA stations, press Select all, Done - writing to memory. But only 12 of the 17 channels shows up on the EPG! Channels not offer by Dish never show up on the EPG since day 1 (not even the channel numbers), although the sub-channels of the main do show up with descriptions. Lately, I do get a lot of DTV program without descriptions on those sub-channels.

I called tech support but was told "OTA is not part of DISH programming and we don't support it, if you wish to have a tech come out and help fix your problem, there will be a $45 charge"

I switched to Dish many years ago because of the OTA tunner built into all dish receivers and the ability to use the PVR with it.

With 1/2 of HD cahnnels gone and the lost of OTA programming for PVR, there really is no reason for me to stay with Dish.

I don't pay for my 21 locals (local into local). I capture all local signals via rooftop antenna and view via 722.

There's nothing wrong with your 722. Since you're paying for 'locals into locals', Dish only provides limited support concerning stations they actually provide. The other channels and subs (6.2, 6.3) are ignored as they are not provided. The station, on the other hand, transmits content, ratings and schedules which is imbedded in the content stream. Dish elects to withhold such information to get clients to pay for program guide info. One way or another, Dish will have to eventually comply.

 

[vr005]

I
There's nothing wrong with your 722. Since you're paying for 'locals into locals', Dish only provides limited support concerning stations they actually provide. The other channels and subs (6.2, 6.3) are ignored as they are not provided. The station, on the other hand, transmits content, ratings and schedules which is imbedded in the content stream. Dish elects to withhold such information to get clients to pay for program guide info. One way or another, Dish will have to eventually comply.

Should the 722 EPG shown ALL the OTA channels from my antenna in addition to the one provided by DISH? Only 12 of the 17 are shown and they are in YELLOW, I have no idea where the FINAL FIVE are Maybe the answer is to watch the Sci-Fi channel since DISH sure have no clue.

 

[FCom911]

Should the 722 EPG shown ALL the OTA channels from my antenna in addition to the one provided by DISH? Only 12 of the 17 are shown and they are in YELLOW, I have no idea where the FINAL FIVE are Maybe the answer is to watch the Sci-Fi channel since DISH sure have no clue.

If you indeed pay for locals, AND you are using an antenna for OTA capture via your 722, the channels in yellow are channels picked up by the 722s DTV tuner. Yellow stations are ones your 722 is picking up, but Dish doesn't include in locals service (locals into locals) so it does not provide EPG for the yellow stations. You can watch the yellow channels, and see their channel ID, but you'll not be privy to the content, ratings nor schedule info. That's Dish's doing.

My question to you, unless it is a necessity for you, why pay Dish for locals when you get locals OTA already (I can't justify paying $72 p/yr, but that's just me)?

 

[vr005]

If you indeed pay for locals, AND you are using an antenna for OTA capture via your 722, the channels in yellow are channels picked up by the 722s DTV tuner. Yellow stations are ones your 722 is picking up, but Dish doesn't include in locals service (locals into locals) so it does not provide EPG for the yellow stations. You can watch the yellow channels, and see their channel ID, but you'll not be privy to the content, ratings nor schedule info. That's Dish's doing.

5 of the 17 stations NEVER show up on the EPG - NOT even the channel ID

My question to you, unless it is a necessity for you, why pay Dish for locals when you get locals OTA already (I can't justify paying $72 p/yr, but that's just me)?

I can't pick up the locals that are still analog (they are snowy). When I signed up for HD with the Everything pack, DISH thrown in the local as a promo.

 

[GaryPen]

My question to you, unless it is a necessity for you, why pay Dish for locals when you get locals OTA already (I can't justify paying $72 p/yr, but that's just me)?

Actually, it's $60/yr, if you are adding locals to any base package. Yes, it's a ripoff, in that you should be receiving at least the OTA PSIP info for free. (Or, if you are paying the $60, you should receive all data for your DMA, including sub-channels, regardless of whether or not Dish carries them.)

OTOH, if I do go back with Dish, I will pay it, as I want the guide data, such as it is. They will have to do the right thing at some point, once the FCC gets on their ass.

 

[foghorn2]

I usually side with Dish, but in this case they are way wrong in this. They should provide the guide data without having to subscribe to locals.

Out of being a great service provider should be the reason, but come on, you can't even screen the programming for the kids the way its set up now, and that enough would be a good reason.

 

[Hall]

Sacramento DMA; I take all my Locals via OTA, I don't pay local into local. All that is provided via the 722 as far as informations is the PSIP Channel ID.

The 722 doesn't support PSIP and Dish has NEVER stated that it did or would. Since you're not paying for locals, you won't get the guide data populated for the OTA digital channels. I understand you may not like this or agree with it, but it's what it is.

 

[memo90061]

i remember when i got dish they didnt have info on the sub channels and i just checked and most of them do have info! i was surprised. lol

 

[Hall]

Channels not offer by Dish never show up on the EPG since day 1 (not even the channel numbers)

Yes they do. As I mentioned above, I pick up the local TBN affiliate, WKOI, with my antenna. It DOES show up in the guide, but because Dish doesn't carry this channel, it simply reads "Digital Service" for all (5) channel slots.

 

[FCom911]

The 722 doesn't support PSIP and Dish has NEVER stated that it did or would. Since you're not paying for locals, you won't get the guide data populated for the OTA digital channels. I understand you may not like this or agree with it, but it's what it is.

The 722 STB I'm referring to is the larger HDD capacity unit that was made available early 2008 (possibly late 2007).

But again, the Commission's rules apply to ALL TVs and STBs containing DTV tuners manufactured Spring 2006 forward.

It's not a matter of misrepresentation, it's simply a matter of noncompliance.

BTW, the Senate and NAB investigations will eventually push compliance. Just how long that'll take is anyone's guess.

 

[vr005]

Yes they do. As I mentioned above, I pick up the local TBN affiliate, WKOI, with my antenna. It DOES show up in the guide, but because Dish doesn't carry this channel, it simply reads "Digital Service" for all (5) channel slots.

After doing more research (searching with google) I discovered that even the 722 scan found 17 OTA channels, only 12 of them are in my DMA, the other 5 are not and their channel number won't even show up on the guide, not to mention EPG. I have E* local but I can't even tune to those OTA channel, which make the OTA tuner kind of useless.

E* stated they will NEVER support PSIP except mapping of channels.