OFFICIAL External Storage Information

[8bitbytes]

480 Mbps is the peak transfer rate of USB 2.0, not the sustained transfer rate. This is precisely why FireWire 400 (400 Mbps) blows USB 2.0 out of the water: you get very close to 400 Mbps sustained transfer rates.

No, this is incorrect. The only reason the transfer is slow is because of the chipset and / or the protocols used. 480mbps is NOT a PEAK measurement. USB 2.0 however has a bad rep because of all the USB1.1 implementations that have been modified to support USB 2.0 devices, making it seem slow. A good, true USB 2.0 implementation is very fast.

Firewire doesn't blow anything out of the water either. It all depends on the chipset and implementation.

Mac users tend to spout off like this though to make themsleves feel better about being such a miniscule percentage of the tech community. The truth is that Apple has adopted PCI, USB, and Intel processors because they work. Apple then, to their credit, implements good support for these technologies in their products.

 

[Hall]

Seems that the tech forum guys said that this 3 moves option was included for those who have a receiver failure and need to replace it. I guess they don't anticipate any one person having four 622 failures.

I believe the (3) moves is an interim limit until they fix the software to allow unlimited transfers among receivers in your house.

 

[Smith P.]

Actually, the counter came in last second without warning - I suggest this is other hardcore limit what Dish/RIAA want to put into a stone.

 

[/dev/null]

Yes, but I've found this to be true any time you unplug the drive and plug it or another drive back in....needs a reboot. So things work great it you have one drive and leave it plugged in, but swapping to another drive is a pain.

I find it odd that the receiver would need to be rebooted at all since the O/S is Linux (albeit, closed). Linux itself has zero issues with this. Sounds to me like the Dish software developers botched some things! Nevertheless, I applaud Dish Network for bringing external storage availability to us all!

 

[/dev/null]

You might want to check the external drive bug thread before getting too far into transferring a lot of content to the drive. It seems many of these external USB models use the spin-down feature which seems to be causing problems.

IOW, it might be a good idea to adjust the FW on the drive before doing a lot of transferring.

If you've got yourself a Linux box sitting around (or if you don't, just grab your favorite Linux LiveCD distribution and boot your box from that) there are certain things you can program a drive with using the S.M.A.R.T. interface. I believe, one of those things is HDD spindown timeout.

 

[primetimeguy]

I find it odd that the receiver would need to be rebooted at all since the O/S is Linux (albeit, closed). Linux itself has zero issues with this. Sounds to me like the Dish software developers botched some things! Nevertheless, I applaud Dish Network for bringing external storage availability to us all!

I've found rebooting the drive rather than the 622 takes care of the issue as well. So, yes, I'd say something isn't quite right with the software.

 

[/dev/null]

We need a guinea pig to try this for us. I think it will probably work, as someone reported that there are two partitions on the drive when formatted on a 622, the first being just 1gig and is probably the area storing the information.

I'm going out today and picking up an external HDD (I was absolutely overjoyed last night to find this thread!). I only have one 622, so, I will not be able to verify moving the drive to and from multiple receivers. However, I predominately run Linux, so, once I get the HDD set up and going, I will examine the HDD via Linux and report back. It might be interesting to see what the real scoop is; just don't know how difficult it will be. And, to help give you a feel good, I've worked with Linux for over 9 years, and am a veteran software engineer and systems architect with a passion for figuring things out.

BTW, Linux native filesystem is ext3.

 

[/dev/null]

You'll need better understanding this interface - NEVER USB 2.0 had PEAK transfer rate as 480 mbps ! Forget it. You have no clue of method of building USB commands, nor its structure.
Take a learning lesson by using USB sniffer for start, look for overhead level when transferring data, check what bandwidth you can allocate for one device, etc.

You're right, I don't possess knowledge of building USB commands nor its structure. I am aware that there is protocol overhead, just don't know how much. But... if one takes into account data transfer and protocol overhead, it should (in theory) come out to a peak rate of 480 Mbps. Theory in this case probably doesn't map well onto the real world however.

Nevertheless, you made your case and point. Thanks for the correction (hey, I can admit when I'm wrong!)

 

[mike123abc]

An interesting experiment would be a whole drive copy. Copy a test program to a drive, duplicate the drive, see if the duplicate is accepted as the original. Then move it back and forth until the program locks. Then see if the original can be moved. 2 small identical USB drives would be needed for the experiment.

The real solution of course is to get the whole house key working ASAP. I really would like to be able to move my disk around now between my 622s.

 

[Smith P.]

An interesting experiment would be a whole drive copy. Copy a test program to a drive, duplicate the drive, see if the duplicate is accepted as the original. Then move it back and forth until the program locks. Then see if the original can be moved. 2 small identical USB drives would be needed for the experiment.

The real solution of course is to get the whole house key working ASAP. I really would like to be able to move my disk around now between my 622s.

I see only you, who have more then one 622, would do that .

 

[cparker]

However, I predominately run Linux, so, once I get the HDD set up and going, I will examine the HDD via Linux and report back. It might be interesting to see what the real scoop is; just don't know how difficult it will be. And, to help give you a feel good, I've worked with Linux for over 9 years, and am a veteran software engineer and systems architect with a passion for figuring things out.

BTW, Linux native filesystem is ext3.

My external enclosure hasn't arrived yet. I also run linux only. If you start playing with this take a look at the UUID when the partitions are created. I'd be curious to know if you manually create the partitions on a linux box, will the 622 still repartition the drive. If it recreates the filesystem it should be generating new UUIDs as well.

Just curious.

 

[abricko]

so far it's a pretty lame feature, i can't believe they charged for this. Should be able to record (or cache to local drive then transfer to EXT) drive, should be able to see what's on the drive in the normal recordings list (show us the fun icon next to it to know it's on the drive rather than internal) should be able to do something with it on TV2

i'm hoping this stuff gets fixed with future releases.

 

[mike123abc]

I see only you, who have more then one 622, would do that .

I would do it if I had 2 identical external USB drives too... Unfortunately only have 1 USB drive that I bought just to offload the 622 at the moment.

 

[KAB]

Dish E-Letter, no mention of HD support

Got the monthly e-mail newletter, with the typical stuff. NOTHING about the HD support.

 

[MikeD-C05]

so far it's a pretty lame feature, i can't believe they charged for this. Should be able to record (or cache to local drive then transfer to EXT) drive, should be able to see what's on the drive in the normal recordings list (show us the fun icon next to it to know it's on the drive rather than internal) should be able to do something with it on TV2

i'm hoping this stuff gets fixed with future releases.

IT does seem like it is a feature that is to work only in single mode best. IF you use a second tv then it doesn't work at all for them. Maybe this is a first step in getting the external hard drive support and it will improve with subsequent software updates.

 

[Hall]

Got the monthly e-mail newletter, with the typical stuff. NOTHING about the HD support.

Do they ever mention features that are specific to certain equipment ?

 

[cparker]

IT does seem like it is a feature that is to work only in single mode best. IF you use a second tv then it doesn't work at all for them. Maybe this is a first step in getting the external hard drive support and it will improve with subsequent software updates.

On the tech chat they did mention this was just the beginning. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and look forward to more features and better integration. The ability to save stuff off to an external hard drive AT ALL is a great first step. And I have to say I agree with how they're doing it if they intend to make improvements. First get it out there and get the basics working. THEN go after refinements and additions.

I mean... look at the ethernet feature. If you already have a phone line to your receiver, the ethernet thing in its current form is about as close to useless as can be. BUT..... it's working and it paves the way to add functionality.

I'm also... as long as I'm making my opinion known anyways.... going to say I think $40 to activate teh external storage option is a bit steep. they should have tossed it out to early adopters at $20 and waited until they made it a bit more seamless before upping it to $40 for new activations.

Just my 2 cents. Fact is.... it is what it is. And you either pay the $40 or you say, "this ain't worth it to me" and you pass ....

options, baby.... it's all about the options.

 

[/dev/null]

My external enclosure hasn't arrived yet. I also run linux only. If you start playing with this take a look at the UUID when the partitions are created. I'd be curious to know if you manually create the partitions on a linux box, will the 622 still repartition the drive. If it recreates the filesystem it should be generating new UUIDs as well.

Just curious.

Got back home about an two hours ago with my new external HDD. The first thing I did was hook it up to my Ubuntu Linux box. I am currently in the middle of collecting information from the device as is, out of the box. My next step will be to hook it up to my 622 and go from there (all the while, documenting each and every thing as best as I can - I have not yet called DISH to activate, but I will). Basically, I'm collecting baseline information that I can use for comparisons. When I finish, I will happily post my findings and experience to this thread. And, cparker, thank you for mentioning to look at the UUID - I have already incorporated this into my findings from the out of the box state.

My plan, after I hook it up to the 622 and making sure I can manage the device is NOT to send anything to it. I will then hook it back up to my Linux box and repeat the same information operations (documenting along the way, of course) - and investigate file system details as best I can. Then, I will hook it back up to the 622 and transfer some recording to it; once that's completed, I will again repeat procedure. Depending on how things go, I may have to insert some additional steps in my procedures in order to gain further information.

Once I got the basic information, I will reformat the drive using Linux and see what happens when I hook it back into the 622. In fact, I should, first, probably just change the volume UUID first without formatting.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[KAB]

Got back home about an two hours ago with my new external HDD. The first thing I did was hook it up to my Ubuntu Linux box. I am currently in the middle of collecting information from the device as is, out of the box. My next step will be to hook it up to my 622 and go from there (all the while, documenting each and every thing as best as I can - I have not yet called DISH to activate, but I will). Basically, I'm collecting baseline information that I can use for comparisons. When I finish, I will happily post my findings and experience to this thread. And, cparker, thank you for mentioning to look at the UUID - I have already incorporated this into my findings from the out of the box state.

My plan, after I hook it up to the 622 and making sure I can manage the device is NOT to send anything to it. I will then hook it back up to my Linux box and repeat the same information operations (documenting along the way, of course) - and investigate file system details as best I can. Then, I will hook it back up to the 622 and transfer some recording to it; once that's completed, I will again repeat procedure. Depending on how things go, I may have to insert some additional steps in my procedures in order to gain further information.

Once I got the basic information, I will reformat the drive using Linux and see what happens when I hook it back into the 622. In fact, I should, first, probably just change the volume UUID first without formatting.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Yes, hook it up and go with it. Unless you have a Seagate, you should be all right. You are thinking too much. My WD5000AAKS in an exteranl has been FLAWLESS.

 

[/dev/null]

I mean... look at the ethernet feature. If you already have a phone line to your receiver, the ethernet thing in its current form is about as close to useless as can be. BUT..... it's working and it paves the way to add functionality.

I've had the Ethernet hooked up to my router for the past 24 hours now. At first connection, I had to "Reset Connection" on the 622 and it happily and quickly acquired an IP.

You're right, the Ethernet enablement is really close to useless as it can be, but, as you said, it does work and paves the way for additional functionality. I spent some time today running TCP and UDP port scans against my 622 - nothing. nmap politely informed me that all the ports I scanned were filtered; I was also running WireShark in conjunction while running the port scan. After the port scans, I kept WireShark up and capturing packets while I instructed the receiver to both send the status and upload logs (with my land line disconnected from the 622). I never saw any confirmation that sending the status succeeded (nor failed); but, it did upload the logs (at least, according to the on-screen progress bar). However, WireShark did not capture any packets whatsoever (except for a lot of ARP requests and a DHCP request or two). I suspect the reason is more due to the switch in my router than anything else - so, I will have to work on this aspect of it at a later date.

I'm also... as long as I'm making my opinion known anyways.... going to say I think $40 to activate teh external storage option is a bit steep. they should have tossed it out to early adopters at $20 and waited until they made it a bit more seamless before upping it to $40 for new activations.

I absolutely agree!

options, baby.... it's all about the options.

Sure is. I'm just glad to finally have the option to have external storage. I want more functionality (but, we all do!). At least DISH is making progress - and in the right direction.