Not impressed with Dish HD

[EricBskiVT]

I get 5 OTA stations (the 3 standard plus Fox and PBS) and see very little difference between OTA (the best) and what you guys are calling HD Lite. Compared to OTA SD, Dish HD looks great to me on a 52" 720p Panasonic.

 

[spiegelj07]

I think after the new birds go up the pq will be better

 

[DSpud]

Thank you Buddy, People that see a huge difference have a problem, somewhere, in most cases. Then again some people like to bitch just because they aren't getting the greatest picture out there.

 

[Skibum]

Have you checked your TV? I haven't really been impressed with many of the "nice" HDTV's out there either. XD Any Dish system I hook up using an HDMI cable generally looks really nice, depending on the quality of the TV.

I agree with a couple posts, though. MENU-6-8 and check the output resolution, check your TV resolution, check your cable, etc. I've had no HD installs that I haven't been able to see a clear and discernable difference between SD and HD (even on a sub-par HDTV).

edit: Oh I see, comparing channels with Comcast. Dunno! I just install the crap; I don't use it at home.

 

[BuddyBoy]

I get 5 OTA stations (the 3 standard plus Fox and PBS) and see very little difference between OTA (the best) and what you guys are calling HD Lite. Compared to OTA SD, Dish HD looks great to me on a 52" 720p Panasonic.

DUH, your TV doesn't have the resolution to show the difference between HD and HD-Lite. Your TV is only 1280x720, and the difference between HD and HD-Lite is 1920x1080 vs. 1440 x 1080. Buy a better TV and maybe you'll see the difference.

 

[BuddyBoy]

Thank you Buddy, People that see a huge difference have a problem, somewhere, in most cases. Then again some people like to bitch just because they aren't getting the greatest picture out there.

1080i should be 1920x1080. Dish is only sending 1440 x 1080i. I can see a small difference on my TV (1920x1080p LCOS) by comparing the spatial detail and compression artifacts on HD CBS OTA vs HD CBS via Dish. The difference is more noticeable when I compare individual frames from captures on my PC, but that's not a normal viewing distance.

 

[JH1949]

.....HD lite if thats what they call it, i see no differance in it than SD maybe a little bit....

Bob,

Can you see a big difference in picture quality?
(a) between CH140SD & CH140HD ESPN
(b) between the weather maps at CH214SD and CH9482HD

If you cannot see a big difference, please post this additional information:

#1: What is your TV set maximum resolution:
(a) 1920 x 1080 p
(b) 1920 x 1080 i
(c) 1440 x 1080 i
(d) 1280 x 1080 i
(e) 1280 x 720 p
(f) 480 p

#2: How is your Dish receiver connected to your TV:
(a) HDMI
(b) component (3 wire video)
(c) S-video
(d) composite (1 wire video)

#3: When you went into your Dish receiver HD setup menu, what was it originally set to:
(a) 1080i
(b) 720 p
(c) 480 p
(d) 480 i

#4: What is the diagonal size of your TV ?

#5: What type is your TV:
(a) LCD
(b) Plasma
(c) CRT

 

[Ronnie-]

DUH, your TV doesn't have the resolution to show the difference between HD and HD-Lite. Your TV is only 1280x720, and the difference between HD and HD-Lite is 1920x1080 vs. 1440 x 1080. Buy a better TV and maybe you'll see the difference.

Thats a small part of it, however the difference between 1920x1080 and 1440x1080 is not readily noticable to most on anything but a large projector screen. What most people are complaining about when they talk about HD-lite (whether they realize it or not) is the overcompression, not the resolution.

 

[jwfgeol]

I did have Comcast and there HD looked better than dish. Comcast and dish both have some of the same HD channels so thats what i am comparing it to.

Is Dish just upscaling and calling it HD?

off topic but i signed a 18 month contract and got dish HD free for 6 months will i be required to keep the HD channels for 18 months?

but all in all i like Dish better than comcast.

I will reiterate what others have said in this thread. Make sure your receiver is outputting 720p or 1080i. The installers left mine at 480p and I had to go in and change it. HD Lite, while not true HD, is much, much better than anything SD.

 

[BuddyBoy]

#1: What is your TV set maximum resolution:
(a) 1920 x 1080 p
(b) 1920 x 1080 i
(c) 1440 x 1080 i
(d) 1280 x 1080 i
(e) 1280 x 720 p
(f) 480 p

A more sensible list of resolutions for HD devices would be:

1920x1080p (rear projection and direct-view)
1280x720p (rear projection and direct-view)
1366x768p (direct-view only)
1080i CRT (rear projection and direct-view)
720p CRT (rear projection and direct-view)

That should cover 99% of RP and direct-view HDTV displays. If you are using an LCD computer monitor as a display, all bets are off. These are TV resolutions.

CRTs are not fixed-pixel devices, and their resolution is dependent on the frequency response of the analog electronics and spot beam size, so it is unlikely that their true horizontal resolution is known, unless you have a way of measuring it. Fixed-pixel devices are almost always square-pixel, so the vast majority of devices should match one of the resolutions listed above.

 

[Ronald_Jeremy]

Then again some people like to bitch just because they aren't getting the greatest picture out there.

For me it is the bandwidth. The picture could be better, but I don't like to see macro-blocking when the slightest action picks up!!!!!!!!!

 

[BuddyBoy]

What most people are complaining about when they talk about HD-lite (whether they realize it or not) is the overcompression, not the resolution.

There are multiple sources of compression - for example, besides the compression from MPEG-encoding, the typical pixel encoding downsamples chroma by a factor of two in each direction while sampling luma at full resolution. So there's compression (and associated information loss) before the signal ever hits the MPEG encoder, and then the compression that occurs as a result of MPEG encoding.

I believe the "softness" I see in Dish HD-Lite is more due to the compression (actually filtering) done by Dish before the signal hits the MPEG encoder. Some of this is due to the downsampling from 1920 to 1440, but on top of this, there appears to be some additional filtering of high frequency content. I believe this is occurring before MPEG encoding because were this loss of high frequency content occurring as a result of the MPEG encoding, I'd expect to see certain telltale patterns of compression artifacts in the affected areas, and I am not seeing them.

 

[JH1949]

BuddyBoy,

Thanks for the clarification.

Any idea what kind of TV the OP could have that he cannot see a big difference between Dish SD and Dish 1440x1080i ?

I was wondering if it might be an EDTV ?

 

[8bitbytes]

Bob211 has not come back around to tell us how he was originally hooked up with Comcast and then how he is currently hooked up with Dish and what he is viewing his HD on. However, he only has 5 posts and this one is somewhat informative of why he might have started this thread other than try to solve his supposed question:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/1197906-post3.html

As for me, I watch HD on a 7.5 foot screen and for me Dish HD is significantly better than SD.

As for Comcast, in my area they are not a desirable supplier of television in any format so I can't comment on what he is claiming to see.

 

[JEFFinINDY]

BuddyBoy,

Thanks for the clarification.

Any idea what kind of TV the OP could have that he cannot see a big difference between Dish SD and Dish 1440x1080i ?

I was wondering if it might be an EDTV ?

A vision disorder, or an incorrect setup is more likely.

 

[Ronnie-]

BuddyBoy,

Thanks for the clarification.

Any idea what kind of TV the OP could have that he cannot see a big difference between Dish SD and Dish 1440x1080i ?

I was wondering if it might be an EDTV ?

Even an EDTV would see the improvement over an SD signal.

 

[Ronnie-]

There are multiple sources of compression - for example, besides the compression from MPEG-encoding, the typical pixel encoding downsamples chroma by a factor of two in each direction while sampling luma at full resolution. So there's compression (and associated information loss) before the signal ever hits the MPEG encoder, and then the compression that occurs as a result of MPEG encoding.

I believe the "softness" I see in Dish HD-Lite is more due to the compression (actually filtering) done by Dish before the signal hits the MPEG encoder. Some of this is due to the downsampling from 1920 to 1440, but on top of this, there appears to be some additional filtering of high frequency content. I believe this is occurring before MPEG encoding because were this loss of high frequency content occurring as a result of the MPEG encoding, I'd expect to see certain telltale patterns of compression artifacts in the affected areas, and I am not seeing them.

You seem to have all of the technical terms and info down, I hope this will be helpful to the thread later on.
The main point I am making is what E* and D* have done that most people call hd-lite. Send the signal out at a lower bitrate than they did in the past. Its apparent in the SD signal (compared to what it used to look like) and the HD signal (mpeg 2 with D* and E* and to an extent mpeg 4 with E*). Even a full rez signal sent out at a low bit rate will show artifacts and look crappy. This is the main problem most have with the signal IMO. The small loss in resolution really makes no difference in these cases, however people have a tendancy to get hung up on numbers.

 

[EricBskiVT]

DUH, your TV doesn't have the resolution to show the difference between HD and HD-Lite. Your TV is only 1280x720, and the difference between HD and HD-Lite is 1920x1080 vs. 1440 x 1080. Buy a better TV and maybe you'll see the difference.

Well, DUH, then I would be as unhappy as these other posters!

 

[geekboy2000]

Im not going to pay extra for HD lite if thats what they call it, i see no differance in it than SD maybe a little bit but not anough to justify paying more for it.

I would think anyone that has seen real HD would be disappointed when they checked out what dish calls HD.

I did want to see them add USA network in HD but going by the other HD channels now i could care less because i know its not going to be real HD and not look much better so why bother with it.

I agree, and am disappointed as well, but I'm sticking with it, as although not "true HD", the "HD Lite" channels (IMO) are still better than SD. Also, though there aren't as many true HD channels as I'd like, I do watch them, and they look phenomenal. See this thread here as well (I just asked about it yesterday):

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/122083-channels-truly-hd.html

Mark

 

[hammerdown]

...All 1080i I've captured is sent as 1440x1080i. I've looked at HDNet, Showtime, HBO, Starz, PPVs, Voom channels and locals, and they've all been 1440x1080i. 720p seems to go out at 1280x720p (ESPN, Fox, ABC).

I am very interested your capture method. Are you using the R5000-HD? I have been on the fence about getting an R5000-HD, but for me mpeg4 seemed to be an obstacle. So what software are you using for playback and analyzing mpeg4 streams? PM if off topic