No Signal on Every Other Transponder?? Dish Says Bad Cable?

[Offroad]

This afternoon I started getting a lost signal message on alot of the channels in my favorites list. (AT60 +HD Pkg).

I tried the usual soft boot then switch check with no luck, pulled the power cord then ran a switch check again with no luck. The switch check passed both times.

When I called Dish support they had me go into "Point Dish" and started checking signal strengths on different transponders. In the range they had me check, every other transponder on both the 110 and 119 bird showed no signal at all. The ones that had a signal showed in the 90-100 range. Can't remember now if it was the even or the odds but every other one showed nothing.

Dish said this was a classic sign of a bad cable. That didn't make sense to me because every other transponder seemed fine. The cable is a straight run of RG6 put in by a Dish installer about a year ago. There is one barrel connector within the first foot or so just as the cable runs down the mast tube. There is also an Acoustic Research surge protector just before the 811 receiver. (Taking the AR out didn't help)

I borrowed a friends 311 receiver and hooked it up to the same cable and it seemed to be having no signal with most of the even transponders.

Afterwards I hooked the 811 back up and rechecked all transponders on both the 110 and 119 satelites and the problem seems to have disappeared except for a couple of transponders.

This time I checked "every" Transponder, my results are below:

119 Satellite:

Trans--Signal
01--84%
02--112
03--82
04--105
05--80
06--106
07--74
08--109
09--No Signal
10--112
11--116
12--112
13--113
14--108
15--111
16--114
17--111
18--110
19--120
20--108
21--112

110 Satellite

Trans--Signal
01--110
02--No Signal
03--115
04--97
05--101
06--86
07--99
08--No Signal
09--99
10--No Signal
11--101
12--99
13--93
14--97
15--93
16--96
17--95
18--98
19--95
20--97
21--108

I went through all the channels in my favorite list and could tune to and display the program on every one.

Do these numbers look ok?? Should I expect to see a signal on "All" Transponders or could some just be offline? Any ideas what caused this and if its on my end what should I check??

Thanks for any/all help.

 

[Dawgman]

I had the same thing one time and after a week they said to send them my lnbs off the dish and they sent me a replacement which worked. They said LNB went bad.... Is yours grounded corredtly I think that was the problem with mine, personally.

 

[SimpleSimon]

There's nothing wrong. Your signal numbers are quite good.

Not all transponders exist, and even of those that do, some are spotbeamed and you may not be in their footprint. If I felt like it, I could probably tell what part of the country you're in by looking at the relative strengths of the lower-number transponders.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed part of the original post. Sorry.

IF the problem returns, It could be a failing LNBF as the others say, but if it's the even tps on both birds, and you have a DishPro LNBF, I'd look at the cable. Due to the way DP works, the even tps are much more sensitive to cable issues. Could you be having a moisture problem? Water in the connectors is a bad thing.

 

[dishdude]

They had a bad batch of twins, sounds like you have one. On the silver sticker it will have the number CCS9601

 

[Offroad]

I think I have found my problem but still have questions.

There were three outside connectors, one on the LNB (119 side), and two more on either side of a barrel conector that connected a short cable from the LNB to the lead running down the mast and house and inside.

Of the three connectors the one on the LNB and the one on the bottom of the barrel connector were outdoor types with the o-ring inside. The one on the top side (towards LNB) of the barrel connector was a standard indoor type.

The one on the bottom of the barrel connector (heading down the mast to the house) had alot of corrosion inside and looked like it had been subjected to moisture. The other two looked ok. I replaced all three with new outdoor types and also installed some boots I found at Home Depot that cover the connector nut and whatever its screwed on. I also used some tape on the back side of the connectors where its crimped on the cable.

The Dish guy that did the install in October of 2003 had not grounded anything. I installed an 8ft. ground rod right beside where the cable enters the house. I tied a ground block to the rod with heavy gauge copper wire and installed two outdoor connectors with drip loops on the cable as above.

Given that the RG6 sheild is now grounded to the ground rod should the Dish itself also be grounded or is this not needed? If so what should it be tied to? Also to the ground rod or to the house wiring ground? What gauge should this be?

After everything was hooked up I did a switch check with the satellite cable disconnected from the 811. Did a power cycle and another switch check then hooked up the Sat cable and did one more switch check.

My signal strength readings are:
110 Sat / 11--100%, 12--100%
119 Sat / 11--114%, 12--107%

Although these seem fine I am still confused by some of the readings on other transponders. I have a couple on the 119 Sat that show good signal but say "Locked Unknown" Also transponder 05 and 07 are in the mid 50% range.

On the 110 Sat I have transponders 16,18,20,27 & 29 all in the High 90's to low 100's but show "Locked Unknown" All others on both 110 and 119 show "Locked and either 110 or 119"

Is this a problem??

QUOTE=Dishdude]They had a bad batch of twins, sounds like you have one. On the silver sticker it will have the number CCS9601[/QUOTE]
My LNB does show number CCS9601 on its sticker, given my readings should I request another from Dish??

I seem to be able to get to all the channels in my favorites list fine.

Thanks for any/all help. Sorry for so many questions.

 

[VOOMER]

edit

 

[SimpleSimon]

All the grounding is for static discharge. Yes - as VOOMER says, attach a wire to the dish itself somewhere - the LNBF is electrically isolated from it, so ground the dish. Messenger wire (typically small gauge) is fine. I use standard 12AWG green wire if I have to run a separate one. If it's not too difficult, attaching the ground rod to the home's electrical ground is a good idea.

As for your CCS9601 - call E* and tell them that's what you've got and they'll send you a replacement - even if that's not the primary problem of the moment, it'll bite you later.

Good move on replacing and protecting those connectors - no doubt if it's not the immediate problem, it also would've come back to bite you.

You've got A+ signal readings - your dish aim is right on the money. Some 110/119 transponders do not belong to dish, and therefore look 'funny' depending on the receiver model. I don't remember which is which offhand, but you can go here: http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/america.shtml to find out just what's what.

Note that some lower-numbered transponders are spotbeams and the low reading there means you're not seeing that beam - no problem as long as the channels you want are OK. Here's the reference and maps for that: http://ekb.dbstalk.com/297

Finally, http://www.dishchannelchart.com will tell you which transponders your chanenls are on - so find your locals (if any) and you might see that you get them using a different spotbeam.

 

[Offroad]

All the grounding is for static discharge.

What happens if too much static builds up?

Thanks for all the quick responses.

 

[SimpleSimon]

What happens if too much static builds up?

Thanks for all the quick responses.

Either of at least 2 bad things are possible. Static buildup in the air can 'attract' lightning. A static discharge into the LNBF can fry it.

Side note: A static discharge like the kind you get when touching a doorknob after shuffling along the carpet is typically at least 25KV. Yeah - you heard me - 25,000 volts. Someone that's very sensitive can feel it as low as 10-15KV, but that's rare. Fortunately, there's no current behind that voltage, or we'd all be walking around with ground straps.

 

[GaryPen]

What happens if too much static builds up?

Your slacks cling to your legs.

 

[Carl B]

There is a spray for that!

 

[goaliebob99]

could be a low frequancy barroll in the line too... i have seen them do this on dp systems with a low freq barroll.. if the barrolls in the line are white then you have low frequancy barrolls.. if there blue in the center then you are good to go..

 

[Offroad]

if the barrolls in the line are white then you have low frequancy barrolls.. if there blue in the center then you are good to go..

Well, I didn't pay much attention to the color of the barrel connector when I was on the roof replacing the connectors. Come to think of it I probably didn't check the Ground block I added to make sure it was good for high frequency either. Seems to be working ok though.

I did call Dish and they "are" sending me a replacement LNB free of charge and including prepaid shipping for the old one.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Goaliebob is right - but it's a fringe case where the white ones will not work. By that I mean, 200' cable run and a really cheap barrel connector.

If it's working I wouldn't bother with it, but if you have more trouble, definitely look at them.

 

[Offroad]

attach a wire to the dish itself somewhere - the LNBF is electrically isolated from it, so ground the dish. I use standard 12AWG green wire if I have to run a separate one. If it's not too difficult, attaching the ground rod to the home's electrical ground is a good idea.

Ok, I drilled a hole in the Mast Base and used star washers to connect a 12ga wire. I assume tying a ground wire to the base is fine since the mast and dish are bolted to the base with metal nuts and bolts??

I tied the 12ga ground wire to the ground rod, and since I had a power box for my A/C Compressor unit right beside it I also tied it to the ground wire in that box. The Ground wire feeding the A/C power box is very heavy gauge and is a short run to the Power Service for the house.

When I was picking up wire, I looked at a package containing the Coax Ground Block I used. On the package it says for DBS but doesn't give any frequency specs. I see the cable the Dish installer used says 3ghz and looking at splitters etc. in stores and online, I see figures like 5-950mhz, up to 1ghz, 2.3ghz, and 3ghz.

What specs should I be looking for when buying parts for my Dish system? I also have a VHF/UHF antenna in the attic on a separate run of RG6 that I use for both analog and off air HD signals, What specs does this setup require??

Even with my signal readings looking as high as they do, I'm still a bit concerned with the angle the installer put the Dish at. I have a standard gable roof and he mounted the Mast Base to the 2"x6" Facia on the edge of the roof. If you look at the Mast, its very easy to see that its not vertical but leans to the West. I'm thinking of getting a Satelite Finder and remounting the Base so the Mast is vertical then setting everything else up correctly.

Is this worth the trouble since my readings are now good?

Thanks.

 

[VOOMER]

edit

 

[SimpleSimon]

Short answer is you know enough to be helping others here.

Your grounding is good. Someone might try to argue against what you did - until they think it through.

Cable ratings indicate the highest frequency that can handle. E* DishPro goes up to 2150MHz (2.15GHz). Last cable I picked up was 2.3GHz. VHF/UHF is 50-900MHz - so the RG-6 you use for satellite is just fine - and should be used because it's very low-loss at the lower frequencies. A "DBS" rating should mean up to at least 1450MHz, and will most likely work fine up to the needed 2150MHz.

I would not touch your dish mount - as long as it is secure. Maybe he angled it so that the base had better "grip", and then compensated by adjusting the other settings. The emphasis on plumb vertical is to avoid issues with installers that don't really understand the aiming concepts. Your signal numbers are A-OK - don't fix what ain't broke.

 

[Grandude]

I agree with Simon. I wouldn't bother to remount the pole unless there were issues to resolve. If your signal strength is very good or better from both/all birds, I would leave it alone until there was a better reason to reinstall it. (like hurricanes, etc.)

 

[Offroad]

I received the new LNBF from Dish and installed it.
For some reason however, my 110 readings are now a bit lower.

My original CCS9601 LNBF:
110 Sat / 11--100%, 12--100%
119 Sat / 11--114%, 12--107%

New LNBF:
110 Sat / 11--91%, 12--90%
119 Sat / 11--112%, 12--109%

After seeing this, I hooked up a Satelite finder and tweaked the signal until it was as strong as possible first on the 119 Sat then on the 110.
The result is the same, it seems I've lost about 10% on the 110 Satellite.

I know the 110 Satellite is supposed to be weaker than the 119.
Since these numbers are still good, should I go ahead and return the CCS9601 LNBF??

I guess at least I don't have one thats from bad run waiting to cause me problems later.

Thanks.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Yes - return the CCS9601 - even if it's OK now, it will fail.

As for the signal strength differences, it might be the LNBF, and it might be that the arm has twisted slightly or the skew is a bit off (same result, BTW).

It is rather difficult to "balance" 110 & 119, but by this time, you probably have the experience to do it - assuming you understand what the "skew" actually is for. If not, let us know and someone will explain it.

Your numbers are still fine, but if you're feeling adventurous, carry on.