No Go Shaw Direct on 100cm dish

[Othea]

Lot's of good suggestions, here. Thanks; it looks like I'll be busy f'or a while.

Joshuals, it looks like I've been getting more sleep than you do !

Regarding the spacing between lnbs: the first pair was old and the plastic was gone from one of them; that gave me a little extra wiggle room. (To keep rain from entering, I just cut out a circle from a plastic lid and glued it on with no overlap; signal quality was still fine). As for the second pair of brand new lnbs, they are much smaller and fit nicely side-by-side. I didn't even try to tweek the signal quality on these two yet, because it was high enough for an initial installation - or at least so it seemed!

 

[Mr Tony]

Have you tried connecting one LNB directly (no switch) to your receiver, pointing the dish at F1R, and letting it sit on 299 until all downloads/updates are complete? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the channel map for all channels and firmware updates are downloaded from F1R (see PS below). Once all the downloads and firmware updates are installed from 299, then you can begin to experiment with bringing the second LNB into the game.

thumbs up on that. Try that first (remove the switch and only hook up 107.3 until you can keep the signal for more than 12 or so hours)

 

[joshuals]

thumbs up on that. Try that first (remove the switch and only hook up 107.3 until you can keep the signal for more than 12 or so hours)

I'm thinking that once the OP gets all the downloads/updates into his receiver, he could then do the following:

1) with the same single LNB still connected directly to the receiver, rotate the dish 4 degrees west, change the elevation if necessay, and see if he gets the F2 channels. He will lose the F1R channels by so doing, but at least he will know if he has the correct channel maps & other stuff in the receiver to get both F1R and F2

then

2) rotate the dish back so he is again receiving F1R with the single LNB and peak the signal on F1R

then

3) reconncect the LNB's to the switch and the switch to the receiver.......seems like he should then be able to see both F1R and F2 simultaneously. If not, then the problem persists, but I still would like to know if he has the correct spacing between the LNBs......

I still can't get my arms around why he, at one time or another, is getting both F1R and F2, albeit not simultaneously. Can anyone tell me if it would be possible that the OP is receiving both F1R and F2 on the same LNB, if he were pointed, let's say, about halfway between the two satellites?? I wouldn't think so, especially at the signal levels he reports, but........?

Another thought......the OP states he is in Georgia. At that location, Anik F2 is considerably lower in the sky than F1R. I wonder if he's taken that into account when mounting the two LNB's on the same dish. I believe he mentioned that he is setting the skew on the LNB's, but isn't it true that what needs to be skewed is the dish itself? Or optionally, as shown on Mike Kohl's website under "Multi-Feed Systems", the LNB's need to be mounted on a vertical rod in order to properly adjust for the elevation difference in the satellites......??

 

[catamount]

Hey Joshuals,

Reread my post 13. Sounds like the same issue to me. Basically, in that thread a Canadian had xku lnb. He took his receivers to Mexico and hooked up to a multi-switch dish without changing v-code.

He says he got a picture on channel 700, so he must be aimed right

 

[joshuals]

Reread my post 13.

Yes....the symptoms certainly sound the same. But as you state, this was a case of a Canadian using a standard Shaw dish with a xku LNB. In that case, it makes perfect sense to have those kinds of problems when moving the receiver to non-xku setup. There are lot of other variables in the case cited by the OP, however; most notably, he started with a virgin receiver.

Mike Khol's site has the same Shaw setup shown as you have

This is very interesting. Mike has now resurrected some webpages that he removed from his site some time ago.....I recoginze some of the language on this page from when I was first getting into Star Choice five years ago. What's new on the webpage is the bracket for mounting two LNBs on a 90cm Hotdish. I'd be interested to know just how that works. Notice, however, that Mike states that "this can be a tricky alignment" and that "it works the majority of the time".

You can bet if Mike says it's tricky, it's tricky!

And yes, I realize that it appears from the OP's detailed description of things that both LNB's are aimed properly and functioning......so I'm just throwing out some ideas....I sure would like to see a photo of his setup.

 

[Othea]

Thanks everybody. Everything you've said makes good sense. I'm sure this will get solved one way or another. It will take me a couple of days before I have anything new to report, though - each factory reset has a very long cycle.

I've never posted pictures to a forum before and my camera is at work til Monday evening. What setting (jpg size?) should I use for this site?

My dish is not skewed, Joshuals. As you say, if the lnbs are on are on a vertical rod, one lnb is higher than the other one once a dish is skewed. Since my dish does not skew, I place the 2nd lnb higher and leave the 1st lnb at the focal point. That's the only way I can get a signal on the 2nd lnb anyway! My bracket is a metal band that I have pounded and bent to the right position. In the past, I used this bracket for a 3-lnb setup, with good results. The 3rd holder is still attached, but unused, so IF/WHEN this issue reaches a resolution, I suppose that I could place the F1-lnb off to the side and the F2-lnb in the focal position, like Iceberg's setup. Or better yet, I could bend the metal band a little more and place each lnbf in a "near-focal" point (each slightly off center). But I digress.

 

[catamount]

If you plan on getting HD channels then place F2 at the middle and offset F1. HD requires a lot higher quality/ebno to come in properly.

60 cm elliptical with quad:

channel 280 F2 sig 97 ecb 8.6
300 F1 sig 98 ecb 10.8

 

[Othea]

I took care of the computer virus (XP Security 2012) on my desktop computer rather quickly yesterday. It wasn't the major undertaking that I dreaded. One that I had about 5 years ago took me 3 days to get rid of. This one took about 3 hours. And I vacuumed and mopped the entire house.

Oh, and I left the receiver on 299 overnight with only one lnb, as suggested.

The gremlins came and did their work, as usual, while I was asleep. Here's what I found this morning:
1. A dormant receiver. No red light.
2. I turned it on with the remote: red light, no signal on 299. Software version 05.02; target version 06.22.
3. signal quality on 300, 302, 310, 407, 408, 409... - but no programs at all; a blank screen.
4. no signal on 299, 301, 309, 410... red light
5. I tried a forced download, which of course failed - no signal on 299, etc.
6. I have only 2 programs that come in -- BUT things are not what they seem -- channels "710 - TVA QUE" and "758 - ADDIK" Well, not exactly!!! The so-called channel 710 is actually the "Travel and Escape" channel!!! And the so-called channel 758 is actually the French described video channel (the equivalent of the English TAC). When I first saw TVA QUE and ADDIK, I thought that Joshuals was right and that I was pointed somewhere between F1R and F2. So I tuned into channel 299 with 0% signal and slowly moved the dish back to the east -- I got nothing. So I put I it back where it was (eyeball technology) and the signal was back when I tuned in to the "fake" 710 channel (actually the Travel and Escape channel).

As far as I can determine, the Travel & Escape channel is only available on F1R (am I wrong?); I couldn't find the French described video programm at Lyngsat, but can I assume that it, too, is on F1R?

So is my receiver screwy-balooey, or am I nuts?

Addition: My last factory reset was done with both lnbf's attached. When the suggestion came in to use just one lnb pointed to F1R, I simply removed the 2nd lnbf and 22k switch, of course - as always - with the power cord unplugged. I don't think that this procedure had any impact, but who knows? - it's worth mentioning at this point.

 

[Frenchophile]

receiver is not screwy; if you are getting from only one sat (F1R), some of the channels that are on F2 will remap. I learned about this shortly after I did my install. eventually figured out it was because of a faulty wire, so tone was not getting sent to the switch. anyway, I dug up an old post of mine which shows how some of the those F2 channels would show up:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/canadia...rchoice-issue-receiver-issue.html#post1780216

 

[Mr Tony]

Shaw uses the same transponders for both F1 & F2 so if the parameters match up properly you will get other channels mapped wrong like that. I did the same thing one time. Tuned to one of those Sportsnet One channels (the temp ones for specific hockey games) and all of a sudden it showed a PPV screen

 

[Mr Tony]

6. I have only 2 programs that come in -- BUT things are not what they seem -- channels "710 - TVA QUE" and "758 - ADDIK" Well, not exactly!!! The so-called channel 710 is actually the "Travel and Escape" channel!!! And the so-called channel 758 is actually the French described video channel (the equivalent of the English TAC). When I first saw TVA QUE and ADDIK, I thought that Joshuals was right and that I was pointed somewhere between F1R and F2. So I tuned into channel 299 with 0% signal and slowly moved the dish back to the east -- I got nothing. So I put I it back where it was (eyeball technology) and the signal was back when I tuned in to the "fake" 710 channel (actually the Travel and Escape channel).

As far as I can determine, the Travel & Escape channel is only available on F1R (am I wrong?); I couldn't find the French described video programm at Lyngsat, but can I assume that it, too, is on F1R?

that means you were aimed at F2. I checked Shaw's charts and they match up properly
710 is the 1st channel on 111.1 TP28
Travel & Escape is the 1st channel on 107.3 TP28

Again the Shaw receiver isn't "smart" enough to figure out the difference when working with one LNB.

Here is Shaw's Broadcast site that has the channel maps. This is where I get my info from.
Shaw Broadcast Services - Channel Charts
(dont worry about the C-Band one at the bottom...thats for cable co's)

When you open it you'll see 3 sets of numbers on the left. Middle column is what you want (DBS VCN) to match channels up. This list is way better than Lyngsat

 

[Othea]

Thanks again guys.

However, I only receive Travel & Escape and one other channel. If I'm not mistaken, Travel & Escape is only available on F1R, not F2. (I'll see if I can find the name of the other channel, but I'm betting that it, too, is only on F1R).

Since then I've done the following:
Factory reset w/ 1 lnbf; F1R (verification code 4128), 98%, Ecb 10.0; Software 5.02; Target software 00.00. Log fire, usual channnels from F1R... Now I wait for the next download.

Addition: Thanks for the suggestion Frenchophile. I'll run a temp cable next time to check for bad wiring.

 

[Mr Tony]

Travel is only on F1

 

[Othea]

Ok guys, I'm still very very very confused - thanks for your continued patience with me.

Right now I'm going to discuss my attempt to install my Shaw 600 HD w/ 1 standard linear 11.7-12.2 lnbf and no 22k switch. I have just installed the temporary F6 replacement cable - so all equipment except the receiver itself has at one point or another been replaced. I am awaiting the final result of this F6 cable replacement, which I expect will end in failure with only 2 channels available (Travel & Escape and The Accessible Channel). That result will be available in about 15-24 hrs.

Joshuals, I saw one of your earlier memos in another discussion, in which you point out that the little red box into which one types 4128 is itself supposed to turn green if one is pointed to the right satellite F1R. What turns green in my case is the little box next to T1:CH 299 and the signal quality indicator, now at 98%. The 4128 box remains red, at least now it does. Nonetheless, the log fire comes up quickly on 299 and the program (often) switches itself over to channel 407, which is also the same log fire. The channel list loads up fine (CTV, Global, Abc, Cbs, Know, Omni1, Chch, etc.)

That red box suggests that I am pointing to the wrong satellite, doesn't it?

However, everything else suggests that I am indeed pointing to F1R with 98% signal:
(a) the channel list installs and all of the most basic programming from F1R is available during the first 24 hrs. This part of the installation seems to go smoothly (with 2 lnbfs as before, or with 1 lnbf as now).
(b) now, with 1 lnbf only, after the nighttime download occurs, only Travel & Escape and The Accessible Channel come in; all others are lost. These two channels can only be found on F1R. Iceberg confirmed the location of Travel & Escape; as far as The Accessible Channel is concerned, I can only find VoxM, which more or less corresponds to The Accessible Channel, and that channel, too, is only available on F1R.

Hence my dish cannot be pointed to F2 and receive programming from F1R with 1 lnbf.

Now that little red box has me greatly concerned, perturbed and confused. And befuddled.

Also let me apologize for my last lengthy post (no. 48) - it wasn't as clear as it should have been. I hope that it hasn't caused too much confusion. I was late for an appointment and had already clicked 3 times by mistake on the "+ Reply to Thread" button, which then deleted my entire message, forcing me to start over. I now know that I have to use the "Post Quick Reply" button instead . It's just that the "+ Reply to Thread" button is right there in front of me and I forget so easily !!

 

[catamount]

On my 605, the EMM provider box is 4128 green on both satellites. Why don't you go back to the basics? Hook up your FTA box and use the TP's I suggested earlier to make sure you are aimed at both satellites

Catamount

 

[Othea]

Thanks Catamount, I've already gone back to the most basic setup and I'm pretty sure that the dish is pointed at F1R right now. If I remember correctlly, the FTA transponders that you suggested are located on F2, not F1R. If I felt that I needed to reorient the dish, I could go to Iceberg's list of "strong FTA transponders," but I really don 't think that that will help at this point. I'm getting rock-solid signal from all of the basic programming on F1R right now. It's the automatic software download that messes up.

Very soon I expect to have enough data to demonstrate to the Canadian dealership that the receiver either needs a new authorisation, a new "hit," a specific software download via satellite, a different v-code, or that it is simply defective and needs to be replaced.

 

[joshuals]

That red box suggests that I am pointing to the wrong satellite, doesn't it?

Now that little red box has me greatly concerned, perturbed and confused. And befuddled.

I would defer to input from other users (such as Catamount) of more up-to-date receivers than mine. I have a DSR-319, and perhaps the layout of the signal strength screen is different on the newer models. On mine, it's the background behind the box containing the "4128" that turns from red to green.

I think that fact that you are getting the fire log channel on 299 is a clear indication that you are pointed at F1R.

Right now I'm going to discuss my attempt to install my Shaw 600 HD w/ 1 standard linear 11.7-12.2 lnbf and no 22k switch. I have just installed the temporary F6 replacement cable - so all equipment except the receiver itself has at one point or another been replaced. I am awaiting the final result of this F6 cable replacement, which I expect will end in failure with only 2 channels available (Travel & Escape and The Accessible Channel). That result will be available in about 15-24 hrs

.

I'm a little confused, too.....are you still waiting for the results at this time?

 

[Frenchophile]

if the scenario happens again where you get only the travel and the access channels, also manually type in the channel numbers for Knowledge BC and CTV2 AB and see if you get anything.

 

[Othea]

Thanks again, everyone. It helps to have suggestions to cover all of the bases.

I'm still waiting for the metamorphasis, Joshuals - nothing downloaded last night, so the target version is still 00.00.

Frenchophile, I'll see what Knowledge BC and CTV AB are up to after the download occurs -- that is assuming that the F6 cable swap hasn't magically resolved the issue. I don't expect that it will; all of my cables are in decent shape, worked fine with my fta setup, and I always use compression connectors - no twist-ons.

Will this be my last attempt? Well, no. There is one that I still haven't tried. Two separate dishes!!!!!

I seem to remember that little red box being green - probably when the 22k switch was in the loop. So my "last" attempt will be with two separate dishes, 2 lnbf's and a 22kswitch. After all, that's what tech support has said will work from the beginning. In the meantime, I'll keep you posted regarding all future gremlin sightings.

 

[joshuals]

Here's something else to be aware of, while you're waiting. I don't think this has been discussed in your thread, at least I can't find it:

Shaw Direct has two channel lineups. One is called the "classic" and the second is called the "advanced". The advanced lineup was created by Shaw to be a more logical grouping of the the channels they currently offer.

The lisit that Iceberg provided to you reflects the "classic" lineup (in the column headed "DBS/VCN"). On the other hand, the Lyngsat lists that I have seen use the advanced lineup. This can be confusing if you're trying to find out what channels are on which transponders.

How to tell the difference between the "classic" and the "advanced"? Basically the "classic" channel lineup starts at 200 and goes upward into the 900's. The "advanced" lineup starts at channel 2 and goes upward. So if your guide lists any channels below 200, then you know you are mapped to the "advanced".

You can read about it and compare the two lineups here: Advanced Channel Lineup vs. Classic Channel Lineup - Shaw Direct

From the article, it appears that your receiver is likely already programmed for the "advanced" lineup; on the other hand, the list that Iceberg provided lists the "classic".......so beware.

Again....this doesn't explain your problem, but it's something to keep in mind.

So while you're still waiting for the firmware update, what are some of the channels you are able to see?

And tell me what you currently see on channel 730.......

As Iceberg pointed out, you may, at this time, see some channels in unexpected channel locations. This is because each time you attempt to view a F2 channel while being pointed at F1R with a single LNB, the receiver, in attempting to switch you to F2, fails to do so and gets confused because you are currently not receiving any signal from F2. That is why you were receiving an English language program on 710. Once you bring the second dish and switch into play, this situation will go away.

And lastly....

Will this be my last attempt? Well, no. There is one that I still haven't tried. Two separate dishes!!!!!

.....or......order a 75e Shaw dish and be watching TV in no time at all!!