New VOOM channels listed in January Dish Magazine
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during the last charlie chat, charlie made a comment that the voom exansion would bring better quantity and I'm pretty sure he said quality of the picture as well. To this most of us believed he was addressing our e-mails to dish
Who lowered the resolution Dish or Voom? I e-mailed voom and asked some questions. Dont know if it will do any good but I did let them know that people are concerned about the quality.
findoutmore@voomhd.com
Steve
findoutmore@voomhd.com
Steve
gdarwin said:
Thats it, right on the money and the nerve of Dish
, if Voom content was native 1280x1080i this would not be a problem, the problem is that the content is 1920x1080i, so a downconversion destroy's the picture qualityIf I want enhanced SD I will watch DVD, which is often much better than HD-Lite, because you are expecting to be viewing DVD while viewing DVD, while viewing HD-Lite you are expecting to see TRUE HDTV and you get far from that and it sticks out like a sore thumb
of course we all know this already
-Gary
On the Enhanced SD with the DVD Upconversion to HD Lite--we bought a Sears Upconverting DVD player for $148 and so can watch most of our DVD's at this same upconverted HD-Lite--so why would we pay for VOOM in HD Lite when, for $150 we are now enjoying it with our present movies, etc?Gary Murrell said:Thats it, right on the money and the nerve of Dish
If I want enhanced SD I will watch DVD, which is often much better than HD-Lite, because you are expecting to be viewing DVD while viewing DVD, while viewing HD-Lite you are expecting to see TRUE HDTV and you get far from that and it sticks out like a sore thumb
of course we all know this already
-Gary
If you had been a former VOOM customer, you would better understand--there are other programs besides movies, but the VOOM content that was most interesting in HD was the several movie channels, but they are being reduced and so, with our particular viewing habits, VOOM HD could easily be replaced by Upconverted DVD's. We don't watch a lot of HD sports--occasionally Disc HD, so really, the viewing habits are not that clear cut for anybody--it isn't Sat TV or nothing. Again, VOOM Satellite Services, had a variety and their SD was good, too--that third competitive Dish Service was not only filling a HD hole, but programming in general and when it went, so did good old healthy competition which always upgrades quality when it is unadulterated.M Sparks said:
So I looked through this twice and still don't see an answer...what is the actual channel lineup. What's going away, either part time or full?
Some people have said Kung Fu and Film Fest would be combined, but that still makes 16.
It also makes more sense that Kung Fu be combined with World Cinema as 1)Kung Fu usually IS foreign and 2)That particular channel number has switched identifiers between KNGFU and WORLD since they were "uplinked".
Perhaps a better slogan would be "All Martial Arts Action- All the time- Except when we're not on the air".
Oddly, Film Fest was not even included in the first 11 channels that were "uplinked", nor has it shown up since they began moving stuff after the Charlie Chat (as World Cinema and Family Room did.)
Anyway, this is good news for me. And bad news for the VOOM programmers that developed all those new channels that were dumped.
RIP "Renew HD", "Sizzle HD", "Cosmic HD", "Coda HD", and "Torque HD". 2005-2005. We hardly knew ye. (In fact, we didn't know ye at all.) Sadly, all five died in the birthing process. May you join your young brethren "Divine HD", "Gunslingers HD", "Vice HD", and "HaHa HD" in Voom Heaven. Your ancestors "Epics HD" and "Moov HD" will watch over you.
Some people have said Kung Fu and Film Fest would be combined, but that still makes 16.
It also makes more sense that Kung Fu be combined with World Cinema as 1)Kung Fu usually IS foreign and 2)That particular channel number has switched identifiers between KNGFU and WORLD since they were "uplinked".
Perhaps a better slogan would be "All Martial Arts Action- All the time- Except when we're not on the air".
Oddly, Film Fest was not even included in the first 11 channels that were "uplinked", nor has it shown up since they began moving stuff after the Charlie Chat (as World Cinema and Family Room did.)
Anyway, this is good news for me. And bad news for the VOOM programmers that developed all those new channels that were dumped.
RIP "Renew HD", "Sizzle HD", "Cosmic HD", "Coda HD", and "Torque HD". 2005-2005. We hardly knew ye. (In fact, we didn't know ye at all.) Sadly, all five died in the birthing process. May you join your young brethren "Divine HD", "Gunslingers HD", "Vice HD", and "HaHa HD" in Voom Heaven. Your ancestors "Epics HD" and "Moov HD" will watch over you.
oh well
wow you paid 5k for a VCR
I will probably order the new channels cause i watched alot of world sport when I
had voom. As for the down rezing i dont like it, but what can ya do? Its way better
than SD and as good as my upconverting samsung DVD. And if I wanna Watch full rez I will watch OTA and wait for HD DVD.
T2k said:
wow you paid 5k for a VCR
I will probably order the new channels cause i watched alot of world sport when I
had voom. As for the down rezing i dont like it, but what can ya do? Its way better
than SD and as good as my upconverting samsung DVD. And if I wanna Watch full rez I will watch OTA and wait for HD DVD.
Technically, I believe all Dish promised was that they would improve it or go to a true HD format over the present 1280x1080. So 1440x1080 would accomplish that. Or, scary, scary thought, they could downconvert VOOM's 1920x1080i material to 1280x720p, which is an official HD standard. This could easily result in even lower quality images on many HDTV sets.
the content is not 720p so a conversion is needed, that destroys picture quality to a point of no return
any conversion of 1280x720p to 1920x1080i is nearly unseen and can be done very well, as you have seen with Fox OTA on your 811
-Gary
any conversion of 1280x720p to 1920x1080i is nearly unseen and can be done very well, as you have seen with Fox OTA on your 811
-Gary
I'm not an expert on this subject, but as I understand it, it is possible for to convert 1080i to 720p very well. It requires very high end equipment.
However it is common to take shortcuts in this process. 1080i consists of a 540 line field for 1/60th of a second, then a second 540 line field in the next 1/60th, interlacing them to appear like 1080 lines over 1/30th of a second. 720p has 720 lines for 1/60th, updating the next 1/60th with another full 720 lines. So one can argue that along the vertical axis, that 720p conveys more information in 1/30th of a second than 1080i does.
So to convert to 720p, you take one of the 540 line frames and upscale it to 720 lines, which is altering the information. Very good, expensive scalers do this better than lower-end scalers, which might just double every third line to produce 4 lines out of 3, which equates to 720 out of 540.
It also has to downconvert the 1920 horizontal lines to 1280, losing 33% of the information.
What scares me about Dish going to 1280x720p across the board is that they just might use a lower end solution. And even in the best case, with the best equipment, it is still altering the information from the original.
By comparison, converting 1920x1080i to 1280x1080i throws away 33% of the original information, along the horizontal, just like converting from 1920x1080i to 1280x720p, however it doesn't alter the vertical content, thus it can be (& likely is) higher quality.
Native 1280x720p content is the output of cameras capturing the information at 1280x720, which has some advantages over 1920x1080i in capturing motion. All of the information captured is passed along to your TV. So it can look very good, as compared to a "cheap" downconversion to 720p which can look crappy due to the information loss.
Thus comparing true 720p vs downconverted 720p is not an apples to apples comparison. Downconverted CBS or VOOM may not look anywhere near as good as ESPN or FOX true 720p. One contains all of the original information, in its original format, the other is a combination of a loss of 33% of it's information along the horizontal with altered information along the vertical.
Now if any of the above is rife with error, I'll trust others to post more correct info.
However it is common to take shortcuts in this process. 1080i consists of a 540 line field for 1/60th of a second, then a second 540 line field in the next 1/60th, interlacing them to appear like 1080 lines over 1/30th of a second. 720p has 720 lines for 1/60th, updating the next 1/60th with another full 720 lines. So one can argue that along the vertical axis, that 720p conveys more information in 1/30th of a second than 1080i does.
So to convert to 720p, you take one of the 540 line frames and upscale it to 720 lines, which is altering the information. Very good, expensive scalers do this better than lower-end scalers, which might just double every third line to produce 4 lines out of 3, which equates to 720 out of 540.
It also has to downconvert the 1920 horizontal lines to 1280, losing 33% of the information.
What scares me about Dish going to 1280x720p across the board is that they just might use a lower end solution. And even in the best case, with the best equipment, it is still altering the information from the original.
By comparison, converting 1920x1080i to 1280x1080i throws away 33% of the original information, along the horizontal, just like converting from 1920x1080i to 1280x720p, however it doesn't alter the vertical content, thus it can be (& likely is) higher quality.
Native 1280x720p content is the output of cameras capturing the information at 1280x720, which has some advantages over 1920x1080i in capturing motion. All of the information captured is passed along to your TV. So it can look very good, as compared to a "cheap" downconversion to 720p which can look crappy due to the information loss.
Thus comparing true 720p vs downconverted 720p is not an apples to apples comparison. Downconverted CBS or VOOM may not look anywhere near as good as ESPN or FOX true 720p. One contains all of the original information, in its original format, the other is a combination of a loss of 33% of it's information along the horizontal with altered information along the vertical.
Now if any of the above is rife with error, I'll trust others to post more correct info.
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Since they are scaning film wouldn't movies originate in 1080p? If so it shouldn't be hard for voom to convert the movie channels to 720p
Funny thing about the 720 vs. 1080i i have two 720p and one 1080i High def sets. Hdnet Hockey and CBS football look the best on all sets! When i had the real voom all voom channels were great. Worst one was Espn and that was not bad at all. I will take a native 720P or 1080i or 1080p Goodness any day. Now when people come over they all like the 1080i display the best for the picture and the 720p set look cool they are so thin.. All sets are calibrated all look great. So its best just to go with you own eyes and budget..
