New Receiver

[GRExpert]

Hi all, looking for some tips. Have had a Sony Home Theatre in a box receiver that I have used for years (10 probably). Looking to get rid of that and get a true 5.1 receiver. I do not want to spend a fortune (less than 300-400). What would you recommend? I have looked at Onkyo, Denon, etc, all very confusing. Thanks!!

 

[harshness]

Is this just for TV sound or are you looking for a system that covers more bases (audio streaming from Pandora, Spotify and Internet radio, Airplay, TV upconversion, hi-fi audio)?

Sony and Onkyo have some modest subwoofer-satellite packages for under $300 that cover TV audio fairly well.

Once you leave the confines of HTIB class gear, the speakers alone get expensive fast.

 

[GRExpert]

Just for TV and blu-ray. I would still be using the HTIB speakers. Really the biggest problem is the sony I have doesn't accept the wires, the wires have to go to an adapter which is then put into the "receiver". I can't get those to stay in and the sound keeps dropping.

 

[jayn_j]

Basically what Harshness said.

I tend to prefer Denon and Onkyo for receivers. I am assuming the $300-400 limit is for the receiver alone, right? Keeping the speakers for now.

The following features start coming in at that price point, and most $300 receivers will not have all of them. Here is what I prioritize:

1. HDMI Inputs - These days I would look for a bare minimum of 4. Look for ones that have the audio return feature in the HDMI, so you can have a single cable connection.
2. Analog video inputs. Important if you have older non-digital sources, such as laserdiscs or VHS you want to still access.
3. Streaming content. Audio streaming of Pandora or internet radio directly to the receiver. You need an internet connection for these as well.
4. Up conversion of source material. Especially true if you are using older analog sources so you can up-convert to HDMI and have a single connection and 1 point switching.
5. Pretty much everything these days has high def audio codecs, as long as you use the HDMI inputs, so that is a non-issue.
6. Check to see if your TV implements the audio return channel over HDMI. If it doesn't, you will need either an optical (TOSLINK) cable, or in worst case the red and white RCA connectors available on both for analog audio. Make sure you can map different audio sources to the HDMI. Most reasonable receivers do this these days.
7. Try to get Audessey or some other automatic setup program. It does wonders on getting things close to correct.

Sub may be an issue. A lot of the HTIB units have the sub amplifier in the receiver part and the subwoofer itself is unpowered. In pretty much all standalone systems, the sub output is at line level and assumes that the sub has an amplifier.

You will probably have to cut off the ends of the speaker wires and pick up some banana plugs, or just use the binding posts. Banana plugs are a better long term solution, especially the dual ones. They make it easier to work on the system.

 

[harshness]

Sony offers some very good values for AVRs and they're usually pretty competitive features-wise.

 

[harshness]

2. Analog video inputs. Important if you have older non-digital sources, such as laserdiscs or VHS you want to still access.

Doesn't sound like they're in play here. Analog inputs other than composite are very expensive as they appear on only the "mo' money is the object" gear.

6. Check to see if your TV implements the audio return channel over HDMI. If it doesn't, you will need either an optical (TOSLINK) cable, or in worst case the red and white RCA connectors available on both for analog audio. Make sure you can map different audio sources to the HDMI. Most reasonable receivers do this these days.

Unless you're using the TV tuner or using the TV as your source selection device (something I recommend against where an AVR is involved), I wouldn't get too wound up about ARC.

7. Try to get Audessey or some other automatic setup program. It does wonders on getting things close to correct.

While great if you have a dedicated theater with horn speakers, I'm not sure how much utility you'll get out of something like this in a typical home setting (den, bedroom, living room).

Sub may be an issue. A lot of the HTIB units have the sub amplifier in the receiver part and the subwoofer itself is unpowered. In pretty much all standalone systems, the sub output is at line level and assumes that the sub has an amplifier.

This is where the reuse issue hits the wall. I can't say that I've seen a conventional AVR that could drive a sub directly. Adding insult to injury, finding a good sub for under $100 that can match up to kit speakers is next to impossible as the kit speakers were often designed to be used with a woofer as opposed to a subwoofer.

Banana plugs are a better long term solution, especially the dual ones. They make it easier to work on the system.

It doesn't sound like this system has to endure much in the way of being worked on or moved around.

 

[jayn_j]

Hmm, I said these were things to consider.

2. Has component inputs at his price point: Amazon product ASIN B00B7X2OTY. He may not need them, and if so, move on. But that is still one heck of a receiver at that price (last year's model but NIB)

6. ARC is important if the OP is receiving his TV over the air. A reasonable assumption since he didn't mention a sat receiver or cable box. If not the case, please excuse me for trying to accommodate an assumption. Again, if you are using the TV tuner, this is important.

7. I have found audessey or equivalent to be very helpful. It is generally available at the price point. I think we can also assume that the HTIB speakers are a temporary solution until something better comes along.

I am not a big Sony fan, but to each his own. I see this as an opportunity to expand the OPs horizons and look at receivers in the price range from Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, and yes, Sony. Look for the features you need. Take my list as things you might need to consider and don't let others limit you.

 

[harshness]

Again, if you are using the TV tuner, this is important.

Going to TOSLINK is straightforward and usually trouble-free if all the other performance requirements are met. ARC obviously demands that the TV is ARC capable.

I'm of a mind that very few are using the TV tuner anymore in favor of outboard receivers (cable, DBS) and/or OTA DVRs/HTPCs.

I approach questions like this with my sister's living room in mind as a common example. The room is only 10' deep and there is one 8' couch and a recliner that are 3' apart so speaker placement and soundfield imaging are next to impossible even with Audessey Pro.

My sister's family doesn't like my Dolby Digital system because not enough sound comes from the back speakers compared to the simulated surround that they're used to from an old Kenwood AVR.

What needs to be considered is usually a subset of what could be considered so you have to fish a bit to find out what's important before trying to cover every conceivable base in a dedicated home theater.

 

[jayn_j]

OK. The important thing is whether we helped GRExpert. Does this make sense on the things to look for? Perhaps if you told us a bit more about your room, your TV and whether you have some sort of satellite receiver or cable box, it might help us make better recommendations.

One serious question is about your subwoofer. Does it plug into a power outlet? If not, this will be an issue. If so, there are settings on these receivers that can deal with the other issues Harshness raised.

I like to overspecify a bit because in my experience, setups grow over time. You might decide to get a streaming box, like a Roku, or go with a TIVO later on. At that point, you would need more inputs. That's really the biggie.

 

[GRExpert]

Thank you for the information. I have an older rear projection HD tv. Has a couple HDMI inputs, only is 1080i. I hope to keep this TV for a couple years. I have a Samsung Blu-Ray player and the Hopper for my Sat receiver. I don't have any gaming systems and don't see having any of those for the next few years at least. I don't believe the Sub-Woofer I have is plugged into the wall. My room is probably 20x12. I sit about 16 feet from the TV and the rear speakers are in the ceiling basically right above where I sit.

 

[jayn_j]

OK, that helps a lot.

Forget about anything I said about ARC, as you use Dishnetwork for programming. You will feed the HDMI from the Hopper into the receiver, and the same with the BluRay.

The speakers and room have enough separation that a setup program will be useful. This is kind of academic because all the reasonable receivers have a setup program these days.

The biggest issue is that if the subwoofer doesn't plug into the wall, that means that the sub amplifier was in the old receiver. This is not going to work. Your best bet would be to find a powered subwoofer off craigslist. It doesn't need to be a great one, as frankly, the old one wasn't very good. As harshness said, you are looking for mid bass and not deep bass in this setup. The key to searching here is to avoid car subs and only look at ones with built in amplifiers.

I looked at the grand rapids craigslist and a quick scan showed these, among others. I only looked at ones under $100, figuring that could work in your budget.
http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ele/4692116447.html
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/ele/4612099380.html
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/ele/4702937274.html

 

[Foxbat]

I am helping a friend of mine get into the 21st century (she just bought her first HDTV a couple of months ago!) and she needed to replace her old Kenwood AV receiver (composite switching only) with something she could use to watch movies from her DVD/VCR combo as well as her U-verse (HDMI, composite, or component). Her Ex got involved with the process of getting the HDTV which meant she missed on getting the Toshiba with 3 HDMI and multiple component / composite inputs (with analog audio out) and had to settle for the less-capable LG set for the same price. She could have waited on replacing the receiver but it's a hassle with the three or four remotes, and I had to create a cheat-sheet with all the different scenarios so she could watch TV.

Most AVR units in her price range (under $300) do not upconvert from 480i to 1080i/p, but I found the Denon AVR-E400 on sale for $349. It does the conversion between the lower resolutions so all she needs is a single HDMI cable to her TV. It also includes Internet radio, Pandora, Spotify, things she doesn't "need" but I think that once she experiences the ability to pull in music from anywhere in the world she might be hooked.

The AVR-E400 has 5 HDMI assignable inputs on the back, one on the front, a USB on the front for music player, one component input, two composite inputs, two assignable digital audio inputs (coax & TOSlink) and directly supports AirPlay. If you browse to the device's IP Address, it allows you to control and configure the receiver through your PC. Apps are also available from the Google and Apple App Stores. I'm really impressed with everything this receiver can do for under $350!

The negatives are: no analog video output, just the one HDMI output. Also, it supports CEC control over HDMI, but I've been playing with this setup and I've noticed that sometimes the receiver sends audio to the TV instead of playing it directly. That could be because my old 2007-era Toshiba HDTV doesn't fully support CEC and ARC. If I turn the TV on first, then the receiver, it seems to work, but turning on the receiver also causes the TV to turn on a few seconds later. If I turn the TV off, it shuts off the receiver, even if I'm listening to the radio! Hopefully, the LG 39LN5300 has full ARC support.

After playing with this for a week, I'm thinking about getting one for myself to replace the Yamaha I'm using now for my HT setup.

 

[harshness]

Upconversion is only useful if the TV doesn't do a serviceable job. I don't see that being a problem anymore unless you're talking about ultra-cheap 4K TVs or big box loss leader HD models.

It was a big issue when some of the TVs couldn't handle all resolutions but that time passed quite a few years ago.

 

[Foxbat]

Got my friend's Denon AVR-E400 installed tonight. I like the push-button speaker connections on this receiver which made the connections go fast considering the limited amount of room I had to work with in the entertainment center she has.

The VCR and DVD video looked pretty good, considering the VCR tapes we had to watch were old Highlander episodes from 1999 (Dolby ProLogic II, through!) and she doesn't have the remote for the APEX DVD/VCR combo so I couldn't set the output to 16:9 on the DVD-side. Other than the stretch-o-vision, the Denon did a great job with the upconvert.

Another nice feature on the Denon is the HDMI Passthru when the receiver's turned off. If she just wants to watch TV without the stereo there's nothing special to do on the TV.

I did disable the Zone 2 output for now. The remote code for the U-verse remote seemed to power-up both zones. I'll need to re-visit this as my friend liked the idea of having outdoor speakers.