New info in SEC doc filed 9/2

[txcruiser]

Top VOOM management must not be looking very hard at these posts.
Example.
They still are trying to sell from Sears (At least that's what I'm told since I haven't been to a Sears in the last 5 years literally) and they are still trying an installation promotion that is failing miserably.
I guess these ideas just don't fit their into their grand scheme of succeeding. I can't wait to see what they come up with on their own.

 

[Sean Mota]

If it's not Sears where else can they go seriously. All major vendors are already taken by the competition. At least Sears brings in 5%. So should they go ahead and give up on it. I would rather see management go to Sears and say "let's do it my way since your way is not working".

If you think Management is going react to every forum in the internet that will be too much to ask. They certainly can see what's going on and have their own way of interpreting what needs to be done which we do not know all the details.

 

[Seawaves]

If it's not Sears where else can they go seriously. All major vendors are already taken by the competition. At least Sears brings in 5%. So should they go ahead and give up on it. I would rather see management go to Sears and say "let's do it my way since your way is not working".

If you think Management is going react to every forum in the internet that will be too much to ask. They certainly can see what's going on and have their own way of interpreting what needs to be done which we do not know all the details.

The problem with Sears is Sears. It's too bad great HD is wated on Sears trying to show it off.

Does DTV have a exclusive contract at Best Buy? They are huge out west. How about The Good Guys now owned by CompUSA. They have some great HD sets to show off Voom. Set it to channel 100 and give away two months of a Voom sub. with an HD set.

Voom does need marketing help.

 

[Alan Gordon]

If it's not Sears where else can they go seriously. All major vendors are already taken by the competition. At least Sears brings in 5%. So should they go ahead and give up on it. I would rather see management go to Sears and say "let's do it my way since your way is not working".

I never had any interest in getting VOOM, but I was curious as to what it was like, so just a little after VOOM started up, I decided to check it out one day when I happened to be at Sears. My local Sears has this little corner where most of the Projection HDTVs go (eight or nine maybe) with most of the floor going to standard TVs, smaller HDTVs and Plasmas, LCDs, etc., but it was still kind of hard to miss VOOM as they had a banner up for it, and then when you got into the corner where the Projection HDTVs were, they had a BIG display for VOOM with brochures, and they had the Motorola VOOM box sitting on top of a 65 inch Mitsubishi HDTV with WorldSports (I believe playing), and I was NOT impressed with it as the picture on WorldSports looked HORRIBLE!! I'm serious now, I have seen better picture from an SD channel on DirecTV on my analog 4:3 50-inch Hitachi back when DirecTV was having issues with their PQ. I then picked up the remote to see what else was on that might have a better picture. I flipped around to a few things, Cinema 10 I remember looking at which didn't seem to have that great of a PQ either, but it was TONS better than WorldSports. A Sears rep then came over to ask if I needed any help, to which I replied that I was just interested in seeing what VOOM was like, she "smirked" and walked off. I then noticed my two local channels on the guide and tried to check them out as I had never seen my local digital channels, and whenever I tried to check them out, the box brought up some sort of message... I forget what it said, but I believe it was something along the lines of "channel not available", or something before I tried to change the channel and ended up getting the box locked up. After some frantic thoughts about having to pay the $799.00 for breaking the box on a poor man's salary, I managed to turn the power off and get it working again. I turned it onto either MOOV or Animania or whatever channel it was... it had a kaleidoscope going on the screen that looked like it would give burn-in to the TV in about five seconds. I grabbed a brochure and left knowing that I was NOT impressed with VOOM.

Time went by however, and after reading Sean and other's comments on how VOOM worked on the functionality of their box (software upgrades) and the PQ of their channels, I found myself seeing what difference it made the next time I was at Sears (I don't go there very often). First thing I noticed when I went in there was that on one of the TVs (the same Mits) they had VOOM playing, and on all the rest of the TVs, they had Discovery HD Theater from a Dish 6000 receiver, and the difference was STARTLING!!! Here's a TV that has a picture on it (I don't remember what channel it was, Rave HD or Ultraa maybe!) that looked like you had just thrown soapy water on a window and let it dry, and then you had ALL these TVs that had a picture on that made it look like you weren't looking out a window at all... I doubt they had many people wanting to buy the Mits!

Next time I went to Sears they had Dish Network HD playing on all of the TVs except for the Mits, and they left it off. Since that time, I have been back to Sears a half a dozen times scatter throughout the time since VOOM came onto the scene, and they always have it off... in fact, I'm not even sure the Motorola box works any more.

I'm not interested in VOOM, it makes no sense for me for numerous reasons. I'd need at least three boxes (that would go up into a lot of money for me, and I don't make much!), though I LOVE HD, I honestly still spend most of my time watching SD as the majority of programming I watch either isn't available in HD, or in the case of the networks, difficult to receive OTA. I also live with two other people who watch NO HD, and the majority of their viewing habits are on SD channels not currently available on VOOM, not to mention that I count on the East & West coast feeds of ABC and CBS for their programming, and am anxiously awaiting DirecTV adding locals for my DMA so I can get a better quality picture for NBC and FOX programming.

That being said, I'm not putting VOOM down, I'm putting Sears down! If VOOM really put out that horrible of a picture like what I saw at Sears, I don't think VOOM would have EVER gotten any subscribers, nor would I imagine that VOOM's box would still be as "buggy" as it was the day I played with it. I blame Sears for keeping a box that evidently is defective, I blame Sears for not taking the time to figure out why the picture was looking LESS than High-Definition, and I blame Sears for not making VOOM look attractive to people it would interest, but I don't blame them for turning off the box as I'm sure it would have hurt sales of the Mitsubishi.

~Alan

 

[Sean Mota]

Alan,

there is no surprise to this. As there were reports similar to your where the STB was connected via composite to the HDTVs and not component or DVI. Or the other problem was that the STB was connected through components but the Resolution was set to 480i or 480p and never to 720p or 1080i because the Sears personnel never bother to hit the red button in front of the stb. That's Sears...

 

[Alan Gordon]

Alan,

there is no surprise to this. As there were reports similar to your where the STB was connected via composite to the HDTVs and not component or DVI. Or the other problem was that the STB was connected through components but the Resolution was set to 480i or 480p and never to 720p or 1080i because the Sears personnel never bother to hit the red button in front of the stb. That's Sears...

Oh yeah, I read posts about VOOM occasionally, especially when they first started up, and I've read similar stories. However, in this case, I'd say it was none of the above as I'm sure the Dish 6000 was connected to multiple TVs, and I doubt it was hooked up correctly, yet it still looked tons better than the Motorola box. Also, I currently don't have an HDTV as I'm paying off other things first and I have a DirecTV HD receiver putting out 480i to my widescreen TV, and it looks FANTASTIC!! Not to mention that I checked and it was set to 1080i. However, the first time I was at Sears when it looked at it's worst was probably a week after they first started up, and didn't they have some issues with the PQ right at first?! The second time might have been caused by composite hookup and the difference in the subject material and that of what was on Dish, however, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a bad box. Still the fault of Sears for not trying to get a good one.

~Alan

 

[gutter]

I am sure that a few an Rainbow are reading this forum. This is the best research they could have. It is an on going focus group that they would pay tens of thousands of dollars to do to get so much opinion. I have done focus groups and I have to say the Sean is a very good moderato, fair and now more disciplined to keep the thread on subject. That is not an easy job to do. Comments...good and bad are useful. Just as they are for other forums on here. VOOM is not the only one getting negative comments about PQ, selection etc. That will always be the debate. Anyone not born before 1970 has no idea what TV was like with just 3 network channels and PBS.

 

[Dvlos]

Alan you make no sense, you don't have an HDTV and you want to compare HD signals. Not for nothing, but D* and E* aside from HDNet's 2 channels, look the on par or worse than Voom for HD. To me E* is the bottom line worse choice for PQ on SD or HD save for one or two nice HD channels. That's it my friend. I'm comparing on like TVs to like TVs, not a Mits to a Sony or what have you. For all we know, Sears hooked up Voom with a shoestring and a condom, and called it a day.

TV not calibrated, resolution not set right, old software, bad box, for sure they don't care. I don't even know how Sears stays in business, that last thing I bought from Sears was a jack to lift my truck like 3 years ago.

 

[Seawaves]

Oh yeah, I read posts about VOOM occasionally, especially when they first started up, and I've read similar stories. However, in this case, I'd say it was none of the above as I'm sure the Dish 6000 was connected to multiple TVs, and I doubt it was hooked up correctly, yet it still looked tons better than the Motorola box. Also, I currently don't have an HDTV as I'm paying off other things first and I have a DirecTV HD receiver putting out 480i to my widescreen TV, and it looks FANTASTIC!! Not to mention that I checked and it was set to 1080i. However, the first time I was at Sears when it looked at it's worst was probably a week after they first started up, and didn't they have some issues with the PQ right at first?! The second time might have been caused by composite hookup and the difference in the subject material and that of what was on Dish, however, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a bad box. Still the fault of Sears for not trying to get a good one.

~Alan

Alan,

I have both providers and to me Voom's stb is not as good as some that DTV uses. I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying that but this is based my my using both side by side.

The thing that is most frustrating is that subbed to Voom for great PQ and I sure did not go to Sears first. I would have only gotten vacum bags.

Voom has been releasing newer boxes and new firmware that Sears hasn't bothered to get a hold of but Voom needs better outside sales reps. to deal with those Sears monkeys.

For my high end hi-def stuff, I speed my car up when I get near Sears and head to a smaller place that just does hi-def.

If you want to get Voom you'll read many threads of Voom subs that have had zero problems. Rave, Rush and Equator to me (and HBOHD-W) make Voom stand-out.

 

[Alan Gordon]

Alan you make no sense, you don't have an HDTV and you want to compare HD signals.

Yes! One of the things that Sean said might have been resposible for VOOM looking so badly was that it was set to output 480i or 480p, and I said that I didn't believe that was the case as I output my HD signals to 480i and they look incredible on my Flat-Screen Widescreen. Is my signal HD, no, but the picture is MUCH sharper and more colorful than what I saw that day. I remember it looking better the second time I saw a channel on VOOM, it wasn't great, but I believe it was an older movie on one of the Cinema 10 channels, and so the age of the film would account for the lack of sharpness. The first time I saw it though looked like it was a bad quality SD picture from an old VCR tape, but it was indeed coming from the receiver as I was changing channels. Just because I don't have an HD set yet, doesn't mean I can't tell when something looks real grainy and not very sharp.

Not for nothing, but D* and E* aside from HDNet's 2 channels, look the on par or worse than Voom for HD. To me E* is the bottom line worse choice for PQ on SD or HD save for one or two nice HD channels.

With the exception of Discovery HD Theater on Dish Network, I honestly haven't seen any other HD channels on Dish Network, however, I've never cared for the PQ on their SD channels. While DirecTV isn't as good of a picture as it used to back when I first got it in '94, there have only been a few occasions through the years when their picture bothered me.

That's it my friend. I'm comparing on like TVs to like TVs, not a Mits to a Sony or what have you.

Well, actually, they had more than one Mits there, and the other two Mits were hooked up to a Dish 6000, different channel of course, but the difference was STAGGERING!!! One channel looked like the program was in HD, the other one did not! The next time I went it looked like one channel was HD, and the other one was a DVD. I'm not trying to insult VOOM, I'm just stating that I can tell the difference between an apple and an orange, and Sears didn't seem to care whether or not VOOM looked as crappy as it did, and they evidently still don't!!

~Alan

 

[Alan Gordon]

Voom has been releasing newer boxes and new firmware that Sears hasn't bothered to get a hold of but Voom needs better outside sales reps. to deal with those Sears monkeys.

That's what I'm saying, these stores and Sears in particular tend to crap out when it comes to high-end technology. I mean, I can talk circles around their salesmen and have on several occasions as I had a five minute discussion with the person in charge of the electronics department who kept trying to tell me that Sony Wegas were pronounced "WAY-GAHS" after I called them "VAY-GAHS", and one dude who kept telling me the reason why a certain TV looked better than the others was because it was wider than the others! These are the same people who probably wouldn't know any difference between a faulty receiver, a mixed up connection or anything else other than the fact that the Dish channels looked better than the VOOM ones. Of course, I also had a conversation with a Radio Shack employee trying to sell me Dish Network telling me that DirecTV was about finished, but that's a different story...

For my high end hi-def stuff, I speed my car up when I get near Sears and head to a smaller place that just does hi-def.

If you want to get Voom you'll read many threads of Voom subs that have had zero problems. Rave, Rush and Equator to me (and HBOHD-W) make Voom stand-out.

I don't really have a smaller place that does Hi-Def, but I do have a Circuit City that usually has more informed employees and a Rex store who from time to time has people in the know.

Rave, Rush and Equator really don't stand out much for me, although TNT-HD (sorta) and Starz-HD are really the only two that interest me all that much, and I'd then lose HDNet, CBS-HD E&W, CBS E&W, ABC E&W, HGTV, FOOD Network, DIY, Fine Living and several other channels that I'd really hate to lose and I'd have to get three receivers which doesn't make it all that tempting to me. I just posted because no matter what I think of VOOM for me, or VOOM's future, I think that Sears does a HORRIBLE job of promoting VOOM and if VOOM was something that would suit my needs, then my experience with VOOM at Sears (which is my only experience with VOOM, BTW) would certainly turn me off from VOOM!! Simple as that!

~Alan

 

[jgantert]

Or the other problem was that the STB was connected through components but the Resolution was set to 480i or 480p and never to 720p or 1080i because the Sears personnel never bother to hit the red button in front of the stb. That's Sears...

Not Sears, but the installer.

When I first had Voom installed (back in April, I think), the installer left it in 480i, and I was not impressed. If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't know about the red button, and I would have disconnected long ago.

-John

 

[Dvlos]

If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't know about the red button, and I would have disconnected long ago.

This is just insane, Voom/Installs Inc. should set up a database at least with names of their installers so that we can leave positive/negative feedback with them. OR find a way to start VOOM O&O tech groups that can service their more populated subscriber areas first.

 

[mkwillia]

Back on the topic......The SEC document displayed a very real view of Voom's state of affairs. It is very impressive that Voom has this many customers (and growing) just by word of mouth. Their product is highly marketable and is IMO presented in "considerably above average" quality. Sean was correct in the statement that Voom needs to do something quickly to add to its consumer base. I think we all believe it starts at advertising. Somehow they need to sway one of the bigger electronic chains out of their contract with D*, so that they can have some type of foothold in that arena. What about Fry's, HHGregg's, Brandsmart, SAMS, and BJ's, as a second tier approach. The more eyes that see this product will equate to more sales. Period.

Local SD wouldn't hurt either. Or they could maintain their niche for being the HD one stop shop, by developing a business plan that would allow them to carry Local HD in major metropolitan areas.

Also, I believe that the prices will HAVE to increase to the consumer in some format. Box rental fees, Commitment criteria and contracts, and/or additional services fees (PPV, DVR's, etc) are was this can occur.

This report is a true testament to the "reality bites" statement. Even though the boat has not sunk for Voom, it needs major repairs. Call me crazy, but I am optimistic about Voom's future.

 

[Dvlos]

Call me crazy, but I am optimistic about Voom's future.

As am I, think about it, Voom grows to 1 million HD subscribers by end of next year and growing? What does that tell networks and producers about people's interest in HD? What about cable, D*, and E*? I think you'd see more reshuffling and demand for HD grows the better it is for all of us, no matter who you sub to in the future.

 

[Bruce]

As am I, think about it, Voom grows to 1 million HD subscribers by end of next year and growing? What does that tell networks and producers about people's interest in HD? What about cable, D*, and E*? I think you'd see more reshuffling and demand for HD grows the better it is for all of us, no matter who you sub to in the future.

The problem is they can't grow to 1 million subs without running out of cash,remember they are capping the cash flow at 150 million a year.
Based on current stories each sub cost about $600.00 each

$600.00 x 1,000,000=$600,000,000.00

And as much as I wish they were growing in subs,from page 1 of this thread

As of August 31, 2004 we had
approximately 28,700 activated customers and an additional 1,200 customers
awaiting installation..

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=24874&page=1&pp=15

Rainbow DBS - VOOM
As of June 30, 2004, Rainbow DBS had approximately 25,000
activated VOOM customers...

This means they have gains of 4900 subs,that is a long way to go to a million.

 

[txcruiser]

This means they have gains of 4900 subs,that is a long way to go to a million.

Which means a whopping 245 customers bought it from Sears during that same time span.

 

[andrzej]

Which means a whopping 245 customers bought it from Sears.

Your math, txcruiser, surely fits your negative attitude towards Voom. If Sears is responsible for 5% of all current customers you are short by ~1,000. It's still ridiculously low but not as low as you want it to be.

 

[Kentstater72]

Which means a whopping 245 customers bought it from Sears during that same time span.

Andrzej,
I hate to disagree with on of my favorite posters, but I believe txcruiser was using 5% of the new 4900 customers.

What they do not understand is there is also income from new customers, and a sound business plan accounts for steady growth over a period of three to seven years, and that money as well as debt is put into growth.

 

[gutter]

Listen...if VOOM had orders for one million installs. I am sure they would get the extra money. They would be an instant success.