New D* ad advertising 130 HD channels by end of year!

[skottey]

And the fact remains that if you take a look at the channels DirecTV is including in their '95' channel count - it DOES include both the East and West Big 4 Network feeds (which I think is NOT RIGHT - they should only count as 4 IMHO, not 8 total), and also their 15 HD PPV channels (DISH also counts its HD PPV channels so this is a wash)

If they were to count the big four broadcast networks, then they should count them as 8 since there are 8 stations. Just like HBO East and HBO West should count as two. However, I do not think they should count the big four broadcast networks as nationals at all. Those feeds are not available to all and are only there for those in NY or LA, or those that are outside the coverage area of a local version of the broadcast station. We all cannot get ABC out of NYC, so no way should that count as a national.

As for the PPV channels, those should certainly not count either. What if Verizon FIOS, who has the bandwidth, pumped out 400 HD PPV channels and then said their count was 435 HD nationals? That would certainly be incorrect. They could say "we have 35 national HD channels, and the most HD PPV available," but you don't count an HD PPV channel in the count. Both sat providers are wrong to count these.

Cable is no better. Bright House Cable counts their normally crappy "HD Showcase On Demand" in their HD count.

Every provider is inflating numbers in one way or another. Most of us that visit this site are wise to this, but think about the Average Joe Doe that doesn't have a clue about HDTV and the insides outs of cable and sat. It isn't a hobby or an interest to him the way it is to many of us. He falls for the numbers, and that is what each of these providers are counting on.

Incidentally, I went into a Sears Essentials (old Kmart) last week on my search for Civ Rev and a wii Fit and stopped by the Dish Network Display. I picked up a brochure and laughed as they were promoting the VOOM Networks. I think they need to update their promotions. This is false advertising and ignorance (on behalf of Sears) is no excuse.

 

[rad]

This chart is the most comprehensive and fair listing of available HD channels by provider.

HDTV programming compared - HDTV World - CNET.com

Right off the bat I see errors, Altitude HD is DirecTV on 681-1 (game only channel), CSN West HD 691-1 (game only channel), Sportstime Ohio HD 657-1 (game only channel) .

 

[skottey]

The national HD count is D 58, E 47.

That is without duplicate channels like HBO East and HBO West only count as 1.
RSN's don't count since they are not national.
Count may be off but it should be close.

Why would you not count HBO East and West as two? They have two HD channels. You are going to say that it is the same thing delayed by 3 hours. So what. It is still two channels. They count east and west SD feeds of channels like HBO, Nick, Disney, etc in their SD count and have for years.

If you don't think HBO West HD should count as a second HBO in HD, you should call and tell them to block yours. I'll keep mine and count them as two.

 

[paulman182]

If they were to count the big four broadcast networks, then they should count them as 8 since there are 8 stations. Just like HBO East and HBO West should count as two. However, I do not think they should count the big four broadcast networks as nationals at all. Those feeds are not available to all and are only there for those in NY or LA, or those that are outside the coverage area of a local version of the broadcast station. We all cannot get ABC out of NYC, so no way should that count as a national.

Most people either get local HD channels or DNS HD networks, so there is a rationale for counting them as four.

 

[skottey]

Most people either get local HD channels or DNS HD networks, so there is a rationale for counting them as four.

The key word is local, I would not count ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX as nationals at all. Even if you are one of the few people that get one or more of these stations from NY or LA, they are still not national HD channels. If a provider wants to include them in their HD count, fine, but these should not be included in an HD nationals count.

I am really sick of these games being played on behalf of all providers. We all know what an HD national cable channel is. SCIFI, Science Channel, HGTV, Weather Channel, Fox Business, CNN, HBO, Cinemax... they are nationally offered cable channels by definition. ABC and the other networks are broadcast networks by definition with local stations. Broadcast networks are not HD nationals. When they count them up, they shouldn't be counting PPV, broadcast networks, and RSNs are debatable. How are you going to count a NY sports channel in HD in my count when you black out all the games and offer me Center Ice, Sunday ticket, etc. Sorry, the RSNs that black out all the games shouldn't count.

 

[Curtis0620]

The RSN's have other programming in HD other than games. Check YES for example. PPV's are national the last time I looked.

 

[atp1313]

This chart is the most comprehensive and fair listing of available HD channels by provider.

HDTV programming compared - HDTV World - CNET.com

What's this crap?

East/West duplicates: DirecTV offers East and West feeds of the major movie channels, such as HBO East and HBO West. As with RSNs, a subscriber on one coast typically cannot watch the feed from another coast. <emphasis added>

Last time I checked, I am able to watch the west coast feed of HBO here on the east coast.

I know this is like beating a dead cat, but my take is this: if you had some sort of unlimited deep pockets and bought every single programming package offered by any provider, what is the total number of channels in HD available to you. I agree that East/West DNS should not count as national since you need a waiver from your local affiliate if you are not in the New York/LA DMA. But even then, let's assume that you have the needed waivers, you can only get New York OR Los Angeles...not both.

So basically, if I was rich enough and bored enough that I wanted to watch every available HD channel on any provider, what would be available to me (with waivers for one E/W DNS feed)? That is the true HD Channel count.

 

[DodgerKing]

What's this crap?

East/West duplicates: DirecTV offers East and West feeds of the major movie channels, such as HBO East and HBO West. As with RSNs, a subscriber on one coast typically cannot watch the feed from another coast. <emphasis added>

Yes you can. I, on the west coast, can watch NESN, YES, SNY, ex.. Just like the premium channels I can pay extra to see these channels. And yes I can watch the pro games on them as well if I pay for those sports packages, which I do btw.

 

[atp1313]

My point exactly. If I am willing to pay extra, can I get it? If so, then it counts as an available channel. Available should not be limited to "free" or "included in your local package only".

 

[Jimbo]

what I heard wasn't the terminator commercial but rather a plug by Joe Buck when they were giving credit to the directv blimp for the overhead camera shots, it was not actually a commercial.

I mentioned MCCarver in a previous post, I got the wrong guy, that said, do you really think D* would announce such large news during a game where it will get blown over and lost minutes later ?

Jimbo

 

[Jimbo]

This chart is the most comprehensive and fair listing of available HD channels by provider.

HDTV programming compared - HDTV World - CNET.com

For your particular area, try :
whereisHD.com

Jimbo

 

[skottey]

The RSN's have other programming in HD other than games. Check YES for example. PPV's are national the last time I looked.

Again, I'll use the hypothetical example. If Verizon FIOS, who has the bandwidth, suddenly launched 400 HD PPV channels with start times of the same movies like every five minutes apart, would you then say Verizon FIOS has 435 HD Nationals? (the current count is probably higher than 35, but you get my point) No, you wouldn't. HD PPV channels should not count in a national HD count.

 

[DodgerKing]

My point exactly. If I am willing to pay extra, can I get it? If so, then it counts as an available channel. Available should not be limited to "free" or "included in your local package only".

I am sorry. I didn't realize that the bolded portion was a quote from someone else. I thought those were your words.

 

[DodgerKing]

Again, I'll use the hypothetical example. If Verizon FIOS, who has the bandwidth, suddenly launched 400 HD PPV channels with start times of the same movies like every five minutes apart, would you then say Verizon FIOS has 435 HD Nationals? (the current count is probably higher than 35, but you get my point) No, you wouldn't. HD PPV channels should not count in a national HD count.

I don't care if they count them, even though I personally would not, but they do need to indicate somewhere which channels they are referring to, this way the costumer becomes more informed.

 

[atp1313]

I am sorry. I didn't realize that the bolded portion was a quote from someone else. I thought those were your words.

No problem...was cutting and pasting from that linked page on CNET. Seems somewhat irresponsible to amke such a claim when 1 phone call would have clarified the situation.

FWIW, I actually regularly take advantage of the 3 hour delay of the west coast HBO (or the second showing on Discovery/TLC/Smithsonian/etc) so that I can record my preferred OTA network prime time shows and then catch the "prime time" from the west coast. It's a beautiful thing!

 

[skottey]

I don't care if they count them, even though I personally would not, but they do need to indicate somewhere which channels they are referring to, this way the costumer becomes more informed.

Additionally... another key difference between a national cable channel and PPV is that the provider is paying for each national channel, regardless if anybody is watching the actual channel, where as, they are paying a portion of each PPV "rental" to the owners of the rights to that program, and not for carriage of the channel itself. It wouldn't matter if they had 2 PPV channels or 200, they are paying for a portion of the rentals. Having more channels just means a better chance of selling more rentals. All the customer gets is more choice, for a price.

Proudly announcing 60 HD channels should mean, "we the provider, are paying $X for each of these channels per subscriber, to present them to you the subscriber." More channels by a provider means a higher level of commitment on behalf of the provider.

PPV doesn't come at a higher cost financially, only bandwidth wise, to the provider.

 

[Jimbo]

Additionally... another key difference between a national cable channel and PPV is that the provider is paying for each national channel, regardless if anybody is watching the actual channel, where as, they are paying a portion of each PPV "rental" to the owners of the rights to that program, and not for carriage of the channel itself. It wouldn't matter if they had 2 PPV channels or 200, they are paying for a portion of the rentals. Having more channels just means a better chance of selling more rentals. All the customer gets is more choice, for a price.

Proudly announcing 60 HD channels should mean, "we the provider, are paying $X for each of these channels per subscriber, to present them to you the subscriber." More channels by a provider means a higher level of commitment on behalf of the provider.

PPV doesn't come at a higher cost financially, only bandwidth wise, to the provider.

So your saying that the PPV's for D* to have up there are FREE and they just pay for the movies ?
I guess that makes sense at least a little, your putting them on YOU OWN system, why would you charge yourself for them.

They do the same with every channel they have on thier system, they pay for teh channel, what goes on that channel is not D*'s call, but seeing it is on thier system they have to pay the provider for the use of it.
With PPV's they STILL have to pay for the use of what the provider puts on it, so in essence it's just like any other channel, just probably doesn't make the same type of money over the large scheme of things.

 

[Rey]

I just saw a new D* ad on Fox tonight. It stated they'd have 130 HD channels by the end of 2008. I hadn't seen this one before; it has Robert Patrick playing the T-1000 in Terminator 2.

i've looked at this commercial 10 times already and nowhere does it say anything on an HD count.

 

[skottey]

With PPV's they STILL have to pay for the use of what the provider puts on it, so in essence it's just like any other channel, just probably doesn't make the same type of money over the large scheme of things.

I think it works like this... They (provider) make an agreement to carry a "new release" movie or other event. Let's say they charge $4.99 for a PPV movie in HD. Well, they turn around and pay the studios, or the one with the rights to the movie $3.00 (just my guess) and keep the $1.99 as their portion. So if they sell 100 viewings of "Superbad" (for example, going back a few months, I know), DirecTV would earn $199 on that particular showing, and pay the owner of the movie $300. DirecTV gets a cut of this because they are brining it to the table for the viewers they have. So, it makes sense for DirecTV to cram as many PPV channels as they can, for potential revenue. So, if they sell no rentals, they probably pay nothing to the content owner since nobody "rented" that viewing.

Move over to a national cable channel, HGTV for example. They have to pay, let's say, $.26/subscriber per month for the carriage of that channel. So adding new true national (SD or HD) channels does three things, 1- increases their cost because they are paying for another channel on a per subscriber basis, 2- give them new revenue for the ad blocks they get to sell on that channel (so many minutes per hour at set times) 3- viewers are made happy. They have to weigh new channels and find a balance between making money and keeping viewers happy.

The PPV doesn't cost them any more unless they are selling it and making money off the showings. It is a fail safe. The more they sell, the better for them. The less they sell, oh well, it only cost them bandwidth. Some providers like Dish (and probably DirecTV) use PPV HD channels as place holders. Why not? It is a chance for more revenue while sitting on otherwise unused bandwidth.

But having the PPV HD channel up shows they have the bandwidth to maybe replace one PPV HD and add one national HD channel like Fox News HD. They need to weigh the pros and cons.

My thing is that I don't think they should be counting these PPVs in the HD nationals count. It just isn't right.

I could be wrong about all this (the pricing and agreements I mean, not whether or not they should be added in the count.)

I'd like to hear from somdbody that actually works in this division of a cable or sat provider, setting up agreements and the pricing structure for PPV. You probably cannot tell us how much of the $4.99 for a movie DirecTV keeps, but I'll bet it is around $3.00.

 

[paulman182]

I thought I clicked "Reply" and somehow I thanked skottey for his useful post.

Oh well, thanks, skottey.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was, you are probably right about how regular channels are paid for, as compared with PPVs being divided between the studio and DirecTV. The problem is, if everyone else counts PPVs as channels, DirecTV will also, in order to keep up.

I think the way some cable companies count "choices" is very much more misleading.