Need some advice please

[R0ss]

I have a Antennas Direct 91xg feeding 4 TVs through a pct-ma2-8p distribution amp. There is also a rotor on the antenna mast. Over all reception is very good. Occasional pixelation and occasionally we loose a channel for a while. Given that there are a lot of potential obstructions between my home and the three transmission antennas, 24+ miles southeast I'm ok with this. However about 2 months ago channel 38.1 (rf 39) WSBK rarely comes in. And when it does the pixelation is so bad it's not worth watching. The other channels transmitting from the same tower do not have the problem.
Just wondering if there is anything I can do to improve reception on this channel. I'm including my tv fool report

http://www.tvfool.com/modeling/tmp/46ae/1ed/e0667d8/Radar-All.png

Ross

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[. Raine]

Two months ago, maybe when the leaves really started coming in thick on the trees? I know around May/June I have trouble with WGBY out of Ma and some New York stations and then they come back strong when the leaves start to fall off of the trees. Although you're only 24.9 miles from WSBK, that's real close. I'm 50.6 miles from WGBY, further with the NY stations. A good pre-amp probably would help if you don't have one already and if your not using all of the ports on your distribution amp you could put 75 ohm terminators on the unused ports, that may help a bit. RG-6 cable throughout the whole system is a must with digital OTA, if you have any RG-59, replace it with RG-6. What other stations transmit from that tower? For a pre-amp I use a Winegard AP-8275 and it works real well for me, 29 db gain VHF and 28 db gain UHF, but that might be too much for your close stations like WUNI and WUTF though. I think the distribution amp I use is similar to yours, I use a CM-3418, 8 port. If your coax and all connections are good I'd say try a pre-amp, the difference with and without mine is like night and day, without my pre-amp I get about twelve watchable stations and with it I get about 46. Your Antennas Direct 91xg I think is UHF only but I would think a VHF/UHF pre-amp should work fine with it, I had a DB4 that worked great with my pre-amp, [don't have it now, I gave it to a friend when I got a HD8200u ant]. Not all TV tuners are created equal either, I have a 2009 DLP 60'' Mitsu that pulls in OTA stations great and my two HVR-1600 tuners cards do, as does my daughter's 42'' Vizeo, but my two year old 42'' Sanyo isn't so great with OTA. Is it on all of your TV's that WSBK is doing that?

 

[R0ss]

Two months ago, maybe when the leaves really started coming in thick on the trees? I know around May/June I have trouble with WGBY out of Ma and some New York stations and then they come back strong when the leaves start to fall off of the trees. Although you're only 24.9 miles from WSBK, that's real close. I'm 50.6 miles from WGBY, further with the NY stations. A good pre-amp probably would help if you don't have one already and if your not using all of the ports on your distribution amp you could put 75 ohm terminators on the unused ports, that may help a bit. RG-6 cable throughout the whole system is a must with digital OTA, if you have any RG-59, replace it with RG-6. What other stations transmit from that tower? For a pre-amp I use a Winegard AP-8275 and it works real well for me, 29 db gain VHF and 28 db gain UHF, but that might be too much for your close stations like WUNI and WUTF though. I think the distribution amp I use is similar to yours, I use a CM-3418, 8 port. If your coax and all connections are good I'd say try a pre-amp, the difference with and without mine is like night and day, without my pre-amp I get about twelve watchable stations and with it I get about 46. Your Antennas Direct 91xg I think is UHF only but I would think a VHF/UHF pre-amp should work fine with it, I had a DB4 that worked great with my pre-amp, [don't have it now, I gave it to a friend when I got a HD8200u ant]. Not all TV tuners are created equal either, I have a 2009 DLP 60'' Mitsu that pulls in OTA stations great and my two HVR-1600 tuners cards do, as does my daughter's 42'' Vizeo, but my two year old 42'' Sanyo isn't so great with OTA. Is it on all of your TV's that WSBK is doing that?

Thanks for the reply.

So lets eliminate a few things. All the coax is RG6. The unused ports on the distribution amp are terminated. This happens on all TVs including the TIVO. My best guess is that it is the trees, although I think they were fully leafed out before this became a constant problem. I might add that this is also one of the lowest powered stations that we receive.
There are three transmission towers for the Boston Stations. They are located in the same area between 24.9 and 26 miles from my house, at 132, 133, and 134 true. The tower that broadcasts WSBK is at 134 true 24.9 miles. There are 5 other stations on this tower, yes we occasionally have pixelation on the other stations but not usually to,the point of totally losing the station for more than a few minutes. I have three presets on the rotor one for each tower, but we rarely move it from the setting for 133 true. Moving the antenna does not help with reception for WSBK.
An interesting fact in all of this is that we also receive WUTF and WUNI which are at 13.2 miles 159 true and 16.9 miles 203 true, without moving the antenna. So go figure.
I guess I'm a bit confused about the use of a preamp. Unless I'm mistaken a preamp makes a good signal better but really won't help with a bad signal. I also don't want to mess up reception of WUTF, although this is a Spanish language channel and we don't speak Spanish, the sub channels have English programming that we do watch.
Just to provide more info I just checked the signal strength for WSBK using the signal meter on the TIVO and it is all over the place... From nothing to 45 or 50 and back down. Doesn't settle down long enough to actually tune in the station.
I do appreciate your response and I will think about the preamp. We have gone this long I might just wait until the leaves start falling and see what happens. If it is the leaves I wonder if a preamp will make any difference....

Ross


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[harshness]

If you're still getting WYDN when WSBK drops out, I would suspect that WSBK isn't broadcasting at full power (although the gain is better rated at the higher frequencies for that antenna).

I also suspect you may get more purchase from a pre-amp as opposed to a DA.

 

[boba]

Thanks for the reply.

So lets eliminate a few things. All the coax is RG6. The unused ports on the distribution amp are terminated. This happens on all TVs including the TIVO. My best guess is that it is the trees, although I think they were fully leafed out before this became a constant problem. I might add that this is also one of the lowest powered stations that we receive.
There are three transmission towers for the Boston Stations. They are located in the same area between 24.9 and 26 miles from my house, at 132, 133, and 134 true. The tower that broadcasts WSBK is at 134 true 24.9 miles. There are 5 other stations on this tower, yes we occasionally have pixelation on the other stations but not usually to,the point of totally losing the station for more than a few minutes. I have three presets on the rotor one for each tower, but we rarely move it from the setting for 133 true. Moving the antenna does not help with reception for WSBK.
An interesting fact in all of this is that we also receive WUTF and WUNI which are at 13.2 miles 159 true and 16.9 miles 203 true, without moving the antenna. So go figure.
I guess I'm a bit confused about the use of a preamp. Unless I'm mistaken a preamp makes a good signal better but really won't help with a bad signal. I also don't want to mess up reception of WUTF, although this is a Spanish language channel and we don't speak Spanish, the sub channels have English programming that we do watch.
Just to provide more info I just checked the signal strength for WSBK using the signal meter on the TIVO and it is all over the place... From nothing to 45 or 50 and back down. Doesn't settle down long enough to actually tune in the station.
I do appreciate your response and I will think about the preamp. We have gone this long I might just wait until the leaves start falling and see what happens. If it is the leaves I wonder if a preamp will make any difference....

Ross


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The signal meter fluctuating wildly usually indicates an interfering signal. Either another broadcaster on an adjacent frequency or a reflected WSBK signal arriving at the antenna out of phase. What type of signal strength are you getting on other channels on that same tower? Have you tried bypassing your distribution amp, just put in a F-81 to the TiVo and see what signal strength looks like?

Is there a history of using different antennas before the 91xg it seems like overkill for 25 miles? A very fringe area antenna and very directional. What type of potential obstructions do you have between you and the towers?

Is there a reason your TV fool is set to 1 foot above ground level?

 

[R0ss]

If you're still getting WYDN when WSBK drops out, I would suspect that WSBK isn't broadcasting at full power (although the gain is better rated at the higher frequencies for that antenna).

I also suspect you may get more purchase from a pre-amp as opposed to a DA.

I had not checked WYDN, actually had it unchecked since we never watch it. It is out at the moment as is WSBK.


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[R0ss]

The signal meter fluctuating wildly usually indicates an interfering signal. Either another broadcaster on an adjacent frequency or a reflected WSBK signal arriving at the antenna out of phase. What type of signal strength are you getting on other channels on that same tower? Have you tried bypassing your distribution amp, just put in a F-81 to the TiVo and see what signal strength looks like?

Is there a history of using different antennas before the 91xg it seems like overkill for 25 miles? A very fringe area antenna and very directional. What type of potential obstructions do you have between you and the towers?

Is there a reason your TV fool is set to 1 foot above ground level?

Using the TiVo meter I get signal strengths in the 70's and 80's for the other channels with the exception of WYDN which suffers the same fate as WSBK. I will try the by pass in the morning and post the results. This is the first and only antenna I have used, it was recommended by a forum member. A far as potential obstructions, trees, buildings. TV fool should have been set to 30 ft, guess that was a typo.

Ross


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[Bob2011]

On TV Fool use the other tool where you click "Start Maps". Enter your info and you will get a list of stations and a map. Click the button in front of WSBK and look at the signal strength map. You will see that much of your signal appears to be blocked by Oak Hill or some type of ridge that runs to the southwest of Littleton. Stations like WBZ transmit at a much higher ERP so you have a better signal to work with in this difficult situation. With a weak signal and 2 edge diffraction there is not much you can do other than experiment with antenna placement and tilt. If the signal has to diffract over a large building or land mass that you can see to reach your antenna then tilting your antenna upward a few degrees may help.

 

[. Raine]

I guess I'm a bit confused about the use of a preamp. Unless I'm mistaken a preamp makes a good signal better but really won't help with a bad signal. I also don't want to mess up reception of WUTF, although this is a Spanish language channel and we don't speak Spanish, the sub channels have English programming that we do watch.

You're not confused, you're right, a pre-amp will only clean up what's there, it won't work magic and bring in channels that you don't receive at all. But it probably would take care of the occasional pixelation that you get on other channels and may fix your current problem. You do have a strong signal, albeit, a rather intermittent one. This problem only started two months or so ago, so something's changed in your situation from then to now, maybe someone's erected a large building, or the trees, I don't know. What Bob2011 suggested may help, moving the antenna up or down a foot or so on it's mast, maybe moving your antenna to an entirely different spot. If you have a small UHF antenna and a portable TV you could try them in different spots on your property and see if WSBK comes in better from a different area. I did that for WTNH out of New Haven with a small UHF antenna I have and one spot in my yard it came in great with no amp at all but if I moved 10 feet or so away it was pretty much gone. I'd mounted my antenna on a 24' pole in that spot but later moved it to a gable end mount on my house and then WTNH was horrible for reception unless I used the preamp, then it was fine. When I'd first mounted my ant on my house I'd put it at the maximum limit of height for my rotor and then later moved it down to only a few feet above the roof line and it got much better reception in the lower position. Course, you're just about sitting on the tower that you're having trouble with and WTNH is 61.4 miles away for me so our situations are quite different and it may be like comparing apples and oranges. I'm also in a strange area for reception because my property is high up on a hill with another hill behind. When I do a TV Fool report it shows that I should receive about four stations from R.I. and I get none of them because of the hill behind the one my house sits on but I get tons of stations to the South and Northerly directions that TV Fool doesn't show unless I input my ant. height at something ridiculous, 300' I think it was.

 

[boba]

KNOWN:
91XG antenna rated 70+ miles 26degree beam width UHF only
20-30 ft. high 2 different posts. At 20 ft. 1/2 the 2 edge become 1 edge
rotor aimed for 133 degrees true
4 TV's connected from PCT-MA2-8P (CM-3418) 8 way dist. amp. 4dB gain terminated unused fittings
24-26 miles from Boston Towers
Possibly located behind "Oak Hill" per bob2011
All cable is RG-6
Picking up 2 broadcasters from side of antenna 159 & 203 true
Signal strengths other broadcasters 70-80%

PROBLEM:
WSBK disappeared about 2 mo. ago.
WSBK on TiVo signal meter fluctuates between 0 & 50.

SUGGESTIONS:
Try adding a Preamp as close to antenna as possible trade distribution amp for 4 way splitter.
Move 91XG to other locations on property to locate a better location for signal
Try rotating antenna see if you can find a reflected signal for WSBK that might come in stronger and lock on.
Do you have DISH? WSBK is a superstation on their service.

 

[R0ss]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. Moving the antenna is not really an option, at least it would actually be the last resort. I'm thinking that a preamp may be the best solution, any suggestions?

Ross


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[boba]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. Moving the antenna is not really an option, at least it would actually be the last resort. I'm thinking that a preamp may be the best solution, any suggestions?

Ross


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Buy a brand name such as Winrgard or Channel Master, you only need UHF amplification. Your wallet will be your guide, you want as much amplification and as low a noise level as possible.

Winegard AP-4800 & AP-4700 are UHF only both discontinued but I found some on ebay
Channel Master CM 7777 & CM 7778 are VHF/UHF had lowest noise level.

 

[SatelliteAV]

I wanted to point out that it is possible to add a preamp and receive channels that are not available otherwise. I use the XG-91, cm-7777 preamp with 50' RG6 quad shield. Without the preamp I receive no channels in the house an only one channel out at the antenna. Add the preamp and receive 4 main and several sub channels inside and out at the antenna.

My situation is rather unique as the location is in the valley with no direct line of sight for any channel. Signals travel in by ground effect and no benefit to raising the antenna. Rented a lift truck and tested antenna placement all over the property up to 65' with no benefit.

 

[R0ss]

Buy a brand name such as Winrgard or Channel Master, you only need UHF amplification. Your wallet will be your guide, you want as much amplification and as low a noise level as possible.

Winegard AP-4800 & AP-4700 are UHF only both discontinued but I found some on ebay
Channel Master CM 7777 & CM 7778 are VHF/UHF had lowest noise level.

Thanks


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[boba]

Your welcome and good luck.

 

[R0ss]

So I decided to go with the CM-7777, just put it up. Works like a charm. Even pulled in another station...
Thanks for all the advice

Ross


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[renegade734]

Glad you were able to work that out.

 

[. Raine]

Great!