Need help zeroing in on a receiver

[KAB]

It's time for me think about retiring my 9 year old Pioneer VSX-820. I admittedly have not stayed on top of the tech, nor for that matter, terminology. In addition to simple DD 5.1, the 820 also had "B" speakers which I use often to listen to my vintage Advents. What I want to do now is a 5.1.2 setup, with future height speakers near or on the ceiling, an about 4' out from the TV wall. I don't want to mess with trying to wire for backs. I want Amos and MAYBE Dolby Vision. I can get DV now on Netflix through my LG OLED 65B7a. AND I want to run my Advents. I get a little lost trying to understand how Zone 2 or 3 work Here is a pic of my setup minus back surrounds behind camera I posted in another thread. So, I sit here open to recommendations and suggestions. I am not predisposed to any make. Thanks,

Kent

 

[budda]

I like the Denon. I have also had Onkyo and Kenwood. All nice. The Denon and others use Auddessy. It come with a mic. You mount the mic and run tests. For the best listening positions and dials it in/calibrates it for you if you wish. You can also use manual but the calibration is spot on. Zones can be explained pretty easy. Say you have a rec room and a patio with speakers. main zone is the theater room. Say zone 2 is the patio zone 3 is the rec room. You can listen to all three or just one zone at a time. Make sense? The Denon use HEO's type of wireless system. Google that. Also there is internet radio, HD radio. and on and on. I have bought most of my receivers from Accessories for less. The best prices are referb's this makes it easy to upgrade cuz I don't pay full price. The last on I bought was new because my son now works at a big box store and I get a huge discount. . But I have never had an issue with the refeb's FYI. Most AVR's now have a front high connection. So you can have big fronts and small highs. And still run the 5.1. Most AVR support 2 subs. I tried a few times. In my room it's too much. Also you want HDMI 2.2 support. That way you will only need 1 HDMI out to the tv. 4K content needs 2.2 I think is HDCP issue. I have Hopper 3 ,Xbox X, 4K Samsung player all going into the AVR. One cable to the tv. Turn on and HDMI device and and the tv and AVR are on the correct device. AVR-X3400H, is 1 year newer than AVR-3300W. Both are W=wifi New one has HEO's in addtion. Just to help with Model numbers. Good luck BTW if you want backs Get wireless HEO's speakers $$$$$

 

[KAB]

From what I can tell, none of the Denons have presence speaker outs (unless you would use the backs), whereas a few Yamaha's do. Again, I may not know exactly what I am looking at.

 

[jayn_j]

depends on how fancy you want to go on the Denons. I bought the AVRX4300H specifically to get the 9 channel amplifier. Four of the channels can be assigned to different encoder functions in order to handle various ATMOS and DTX modes.

I also have Onkyo receivers. There have been complaints of overheating on Onkyos, but in my experience this usually boils down to providing enough ventilation space. Let them breathe and they do fine. Beyond that, it kind of becomes a religious issue. I like the Denons because the ones I have had in the past have always been overbuilt and they seem to have better margins on clean power.

 

[Foxbat]

Did Marantz get acquired by (or merge with) by Denon? I like the low-profile look of the NR1608 but the display,
back panel graphics, and remote look awfully familiar to the Denon.

The going price appears to be ~$750 and it has Dolby Atmos (as the picture shows) and up-converts any analog
video sources to 4K, a nice feature if you have older sources like a VCR or Laserdisc. 50 W RMS may not shake
the walls, but should be enough. I guess it supports Amazon Alexa voice commands, too.

 

[jayn_j]

from the wikipedia page:

• 1997 Saul Marantz dies aged 85
• 2001 Marantz Japan Inc. acquires the brand and all overseas sales subsidiaries
• 2002 Marantz Japan and Denon merge to form D&M Holdings, to later be joined by other higher-end audio equipment brands such as Boston Acoustics
• 2008 Philips sells its remaining stake in D&M Holdings, ending a 28-year relationship between Philips and Marantz
• 2014 Marantz Professional acquired by inMusic Brands
• 2017 Sound United LLC acquires D+M Holding

I have always liked Marantz products. I think smaller size is due to less need for heatsinks with 50W.

 

[KAB]

depends on how fancy you want to go on the Denons. I bought the AVRX4300H specifically to get the 9 channel amplifier. Four of the channels can be assigned to different encoder functions in order to handle various ATMOS and DTX modes.

I also have Onkyo receivers. There have been complaints of overheating on Onkyos, but in my experience this usually boils down to providing enough ventilation space. Let them breathe and they do fine. Beyond that, it kind of becomes a religious issue. I like the Denons because the ones I have had in the past have always been overbuilt and they seem to have better margins on clean power.

Again, not trying to be fancy as I described in OT. Leaning to Yamaha, it seems to be more "accommodating" to my plan.

 

[dfergie]

Happy with my Yamaha, watching 300 HD DVD with DSU upmix right now... pretty good, considered Denon but local guy switched to Yamaha’s.

 

[budda]

Marantz is now the same company as Denon and has some of the same equipment with different labeling. Marantz is a higher end company at least based on my research. Presence speaker outs. Are pretty much the same as ZONES. With separate pre outs. Which Denon uses. There is no right or wrong here. It's mostly about your preference. I can't think of one main feature that another brand does not have. May just be labeled different or harder to access. But if you are comfortable with it. You will be fine. Get whatever makes sense to you and has all the features you want. More power more better! I would start with a price point than find the features that meet your budget. Again Good luck!

 

[Foxbat]

I got my first Yamaha (a CR-450) back in the "Natural Sound" 1970s when their look was clean minimalistic aluminum and light green lighting. I advanced to the A-1/T-1 combo in black (I'll have to drag out the old photos to post a picture) and my first A/V unit was a Yamaha Integrated Amplifier with an AC-3 input for my Laserdiscs and Dolby Decoding for L-C-R and surround back (I think it was L+R). That lasted me until I switched to the Marantz AVR with the programmable remote (which ate AA batteries at a rapid rate) but when Blu-Ray disks came with the Digital Dobly and discreet 5.1 signaling, I went back to Yamaha which I still have today.

So KAB, I understand your appreciation of Yamaha!

 

[harshness]

The Denon and others use Auddessy.

More than a few AVR manufacturers seem to have parted ways with Audyssey (they claim Onkyo and McIntosh but both seem to be using something else). There may be more car audio applications than home theater these days.

Many are dismissive about the non-Audyssey systems but I'm not sure it is warranted if so many have chosen to go in other directions.

 

[KAB]

I got my first Yamaha (a CR-450) back in the "Natural Sound" 1970s when their look was clean minimalistic aluminum and light green lighting. I advanced to the A-1/T-1 combo in black (I'll have to drag out the old photos to post a picture) and my first A/V unit was a Yamaha Integrated Amplifier with an AC-3 input for my Laserdiscs and Dolby Decoding for L-C-R and surround back (I think it was L+R). That lasted me until I switched to the Marantz AVR with the programmable remote (which ate AA batteries at a rapid rate) but when Blu-Ray disks came with the Digital Dobly and discreet 5.1 signaling, I went back to Yamaha which I still have today.

So KAB, I understand your appreciation of Yamaha!

After giving due diligence in researching all my options, I chose and ordered a factory refurbished Yamaha V681. Onkyo was close. I just could not find the right fit with Denon.

 

[Foxbat]

All this AVR talk got me primed to replace my ten-year old Yamaha. Crutchfield just dropped the price on many of their Home Theater receivers (but not the Yamaha I was looking at )

 

[jayn_j]

Yeah. If you are price shopping, you need to accept last year's features. Manufacturers tend to drop prices just before new models come out.

(I know, how profound.)

 

[harshness]

Yeah. If you are price shopping, you need to accept last year's features.

When the question is DolbyVision and HLG, it is probably not a good idea to bet on last year's hardware unless it is already proven compatible (especially if you're a DIRECTV subscriber where HLG seems to be the order of the day for UHD programming). HDMI capability has been the keystone to AVR longevity for a while now and to get stuck with something that can't do all the latest HDR and WCG stuff would be a terrible shame.

 

[jayn_j]

When the question is DolbyVision and HLG, it is probably not a good idea to bet on last year's hardware unless it is already proven compatible (especially if you're a DIRECTV subscriber where HLG seems to be the order of the day for UHD programming). HDMI capability has been the keystone to AVR longevity for a while now and to get stuck with something that can't do all the latest HDR and WCG stuff would be a terrible shame.

I understand what you are saying, but I've been at this since the 70s, and there are other factors in play.

Rule #1: You will pay a premium for the latest and greatest.
Rule #2: in a year, your latest and greatest will be obsolete and there will be a new latest and greatest. It is a fundamental rule of merchandising.
Rule #3: with rare exceptions (HD-DVD anyone). last year's equipment will continue to function at the level it was designed for. You may be missing some groovy mode or feature, but there will be a lesser mode that still functions.
(even HD-DVD still plugs into todays receiver and plays movies. Although I can't get new ones, I still enjoy all those $1 titles bought during the closeout)

I don't deny that there are folks who are willing to take the hit and update every year, but the people asking in these threads are trading in 10 year old receivers. This is similar to my philosophy to buy good stuff and then ignore the latest and greatest until the equipment limitations are too great to ignore. About every 10 years.

FWIW, Harshness, I never actually advocated buying last year's stuff. MY comment was along the lines that if price was a primary concern, you would be looking at the previous model for a given level of performance. This might be perfectly acceptable to many. Say you have $1000 to spend on a new receiver. Which is the better buy? The new one with features, or the year old model with higher power and more channels? Careful, there is no one right answer.

Its a matter of education, and I was advocating that in my post.

 

[harshness]

Rule #1: You will pay a premium for the latest and greatest.

There's a corollary to this that says that paying a premium doesn't always get you the latest and greatest. Denon drives that point home almost every year.

Rule #2: in a year, your latest and greatest will be obsolete and there will be a new latest and greatest. It is a fundamental rule of merchandising.

Onkyo's and perhaps Yamaha's 2017 models seem to support most of what you're going to need in the for the foreseeable future of HDR and WCG. Getting something today that doesn't already handle HLG isn't just a tragedy for DIRECTV subscribers but also for those looking forward to ATSC 3.0. Adding two or four more channels may or may not make or break the listening experience but not being able to correctly pass the video signal is a show stopper.

Rule #3: with rare exceptions (HD-DVD anyone). last year's equipment will continue to function at the level it was designed for. You may be missing some groovy mode or feature, but there will be a lesser mode that still functions.

At introduction and for quite a while after, HD-DVD was plenty capable of handling the technologies on the horizon. Greater than 5.1 sound wasn't an concern and neither was UHD.

We often feel sorry for people who have a TV die on them and have to replace it with something known to be missing some significant aspect of what's coming (I'm not sure where 3D falls in this). Modern AVRs are becoming more about their place as a switching device between sources as the audio changes become less and less discernable (as well as more expensive and difficult to correctly implement). Choosing one that doesn't handle what is already upon us or based on where a favored brand happens to be at the time is flawed reasoning.

 

[Foxbat]

I always assumed that HDMI switching was more a case of just passing the bits on to the display device. Why should an AVR care if the 4K picture it's passing through its signal pathways is HDR or not? The AVR just needs to extract the audio portion of the bitstream and properly interpret it. Am I wrong?

 

[harshness]

The AVR just needs to extract the audio portion of the bitstream and properly interpret it.

The issue is deciding what parts are audio and what parts are video is precisely the issue. For whatever reason, those demarcation lines seem to trip up certain devices (this includes sound bars and HTIB). Around the Olympic Games, there was quite a bit of discussion about having to bypass the AVR or sound bar and try alternate connection methods to get it all to work.

 

[budda]

I always assumed that HDMI switching was more a case of just passing the bits on to the display device. Why should an AVR care if the 4K picture it's passing through its signal pathways is HDR or not? The AVR just needs to extract the audio portion of the bitstream and properly interpret it. Am I wrong?

It is possible to have a 4K AVR. And not be able to pass thru the 4K. Losing sound or picture. If the AVR does not have the current HDMI HDCP version. Example.
HDCP 2.2 is a technology designed to prevent illegal copying of 4K Ultra HD content.

Every link in your video chain must support HDCP 2.2 — your TV, video source, and any component the video signal passes through. If one does not, you won't see a 4K picture.

HDMI 2.0 is also required for TVs and components to be able to pass 4K video. But you can't assume that every device that has HDMI 2.0 will also support HDCP 2.2. .

Hope this helps.