Need Help - How to Setup and Remount 1 meter Fortec Motorized Dish on a roof

[jsattv]

Had help from a good friend today in trying to setup a 1 meter Fortec Star Dish with SG 2100 motor and Invacom LNB on a slanted shingled bungalow roof with 24 inch separation roof truses. Spent the entire weekend assembling the dish just purchased on Friday. We were trying for sat 97 (AMC 5) but we were not successful even just trying to cable the LNB output - without the motor to a ViewSat FTA receiver.

We used the optional $20.00 extra roof mount for this dish. My friend who is quite experienced with Fixed Dishes, - but not motorized ones, said it would be much less wind resistance and loading if we installed the 1 meter Fortec at the LOWER portion of the roof facing south. However we had major problems. The SG2100 would NOT properly fit the 1 meter dish because of a curved lip at the end of the dish pole. This lip is apparently to secure the straight pipe that comes with the dish for flat surface mounting. Contacted Fortec Canada help and the gentleman said most people use Stab motors with this dish so this was a new problem they had never heard of before. But more troublong was when he said he had never heard of a ViewSat FTA box working with the 1 meter Fortec, and told us to contact him if we ever got it working!!

Once the dish, motor, and LNB were set re my lattitude etc. up we discovered the LNB was too close to the roof shingles so we had to install it upside down. (What a nightmare). Another problem was when we walked on the roof the antenna mount and motor shook since its on 24 inch wide 2 by 4 truses. (Not very sturdy). Can I ask 3 questions if allowed:

1. Has anyone ever succeeded in mounting the 1 meter Fortec motorized dish on a curved bungalow roof with the optional Fortec roof mount? If so where did you mount it?

2. Do I need some kind of special steel pipe type mount from a professional, since the curved roof mount ($20.00 extra), is not very sturdy? Or should we seal the holes and remount the 1 meter dish closer to the top of the roof?

3. Do I need to ditch the ViewSat Box and pick up a CoolSat FTA box for all of this to work? Sat 97 AMC 5 is my south Bird for Winnipeg.

Any replies would be very much appreciated as I have a completely inactive system right now up on the roof, and do not know what to try next.

 

[zazu]

JS, i can not answer 2 of your querries, but your ViewSat is fine,, the STB unit is the least of compatability issues,, i have never heard of a dish antenna and a reciever issue, however i have heard of LNB and STB issues, but thats rare,, and the Fortec guy saying he never heard ViewSat, and regardless even if it was really an obscure STB unit,, he should have told there should be no reciever/dish issues, you did not have a Fortec STB,, so thats probably why he acted that way..but again.. you do not need to buy a diff recvr.. ( especially a Coolsat becasue again that would not be a Fortec, and if there was compatability issues, thats the brand you would have to pruchase!!)
--- i did not catch the MOTOR ,, there is 2 elec devices that could be the compatability issue

 

[Tron]

If the lip is in the way due to the motor shaft pointing down, can you bolt the mount on the dish upside down? I had to do that on my Pansat dish.

I don't have any personal experience, but I've heard the Viewsat doesn't work well at all with a motor. Maybe someone else could confirm?

 

[Mr Tony]

I don't have any personal experience, but I've heard the Viewsat doesn't work well at all with a motor. Maybe someone else could confirm?

ewww...you said the bad phrase

yes the Viewsat doesnt play well with a motor

 

[Mr Tony]

3. Do I need to ditch the ViewSat Box and pick up a CoolSat FTA box for all of this to work? Sat 97 AMC 5 is my south Bird for Winnipeg.

I think you got the two confused. IA5 at 97 is your true south. AMC5 is at 79

 

[mrweather]

It is true, Viewsats don't play very well with motorized dishes. My Coolsat and Stab motor? No problem. My VS 2000 Extreme and Stab motor? No dice.

As far as the Fortec guy's comment about using Stab motors, well, the HH90 is in the same configuration as the SG2100 so using the equivalent Stab simply because it's a Stab wouldn't solve the problem.

 

[jsattv]

Thanks all for the help. Was able to adjust the shaky dish enough today to get TP 12152 up to S = 72 and Q = flickering as high as 75 - this is without the motor, - just running one lead of the LNB down to the ViewSat. Most other TP's are very low on the Q reading however. Looks like there are only about 17 Transponders on this sat 97. Now do I set up the Motor? And 2nd lead out of LNB?

Still not happy with how low and shaky the dish is, I took some pictures of the dish & was wondering how to insert them. Do I have to set up a URL??

 

[Tron]

I took some pictures of the dish & was wondering how to insert them. Do I have to set up a URL??

In 'Additional Options' under the text window where you type in the message text, there is a button for 'Manage Attachments'. You can select and upload your pics from there

 

[Pittsville]

If there is no compelling reason to mount the dish on the roof I would try putting it on the ground.

I originally tried my initial setup on my roof and after about 100 trips up and down the ladder I decided to try it on the ground. I was of the "higher is better" mindset that applies to most antennas but that doesn't seem to be the case with the dish antennas.

I'm really glad I gave up the roof idea because it's a lot easier to go out and tweak around or try a different lnb, and if I ever have to clear snow from the dish I won't look like that guy on skis on the old Wide World of Sports intro showing the "agony of defeat".

I am going to try setting up an 18" dish on my roof but I don't anticipate ever doing anything to it after I get it going.

You may have a good reason for roof mounting, like clearing obstructions or asthetic reasons but if not, then ground mounting is what I would do.

One idea I did have was to use one of those things that they use for plumbing vents where they pass through the roof. I was going to secure the bottom of the pole in the attic. Those flanges have a rubber collar that would maybe allow the dish to sway in strong wind or be pulled out of plumb by the weight of the dish and motor, so it would probably also need to be strapped somehow to keep it from moving sideways. It sounds like you are making progress. Good luck up there.

 

[jsattv]

If there is no compelling reason to mount the dish on the roof I would try putting it on the ground.

I originally tried my initial setup on my roof and after about 100 trips up and down the ladder I decided to try it on the ground. I was of the "higher is better" mindset that applies to most antennas but that doesn't seem to be the case with the dish antennas.

I'm really glad I gave up the roof idea because it's a lot easier to go out and tweak around or try a different lnb, and if I ever have to clear snow from the dish I won't look like that guy on skis on the old Wide World of Sports intro showing the "agony of defeat".

I am going to try setting up an 18" dish on my roof but I don't anticipate ever doing anything to it after I get it going.

You may have a good reason for roof mounting, like clearing obstructions or asthetic reasons but if not, then ground mounting is what I would do.

One idea I did have was to use one of those things that they use for plumbing vents where they pass through the roof. I was going to secure the bottom of the pole in the attic. Those flanges have a rubber collar that would maybe allow the dish to sway in strong wind or be pulled out of plumb by the weight of the dish and motor, so it would probably also need to be strapped somehow to keep it from moving sideways. It sounds like you are making progress. Good luck up there.

Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately the ground mount idea wouldn't work very well where I live in the suburbs. Its a common thing for vandals to climb up on tool sheds, and steal small 20 inch dishes around here, so a 1 meter dish with a motor would be a real tempting target for these folks.

Going to talk to a welder tomorrow about a brace or some way to try and set this dish up on the peak of my roof. It was suggested by a friend that we just lift up the shaky Dish where it is now and lay some plywood down and then bolt the roof mount back on top of the shingles. But I'm not too keen on that idea especially after the plywood starts to rot. And even with the LNB bolted upside down it just barely clears the shingles, so this is not a good location for this dish. I'll try to attach some pics of the current setup. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

 

[Davage]

It was suggested by a friend that we just lift up the shaky Dish where it is now and lay some plywood down and then bolt the roof mount back on top of the shingles. But I'm not too keen on that idea especially after the plywood starts to rot. And even with the LNB bolted upside down it just barely clears the shingles, so this is not a good location for this dish. I'll try to attach some pics of the current setup. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

I have been trying to use a setup similar to yours on my storage shed, and the mount doesn't seem to be quite strong enough. No matter how tight I tighten up the bolts on the mount, it is still pretty shakey.

I watched this video on Youtube and I am going to look at taking the ideas from this mount to use for mine. The two T-styled mounts with u-bolts holding the pipe in place seems to be pretty stable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k_yhxmGlEA&mode=related&search=

 

[GrumpyGuy]

Here is a shot of my rooftop installation using a vent sleave as described by Pittsville. In addition to being U-bolted to the top and bottom cords of the truss it is pinned to the bottom truss to prevent rotation. Some shimming may be required to plumb the pole if the truss is not perfectly vertical. I recommend schedule 40 pipe if you mounting point is going be be more than a couple feet above the roofline.

What is missing in this picture is proper grounding of both the pole and the coax.

 

[ftarock]

Likely you don't set up the dish correctly. Looking at the picture, the dish angle is very low for truesouth sat (or some sats close to truesouth).
The mount you are using does not looking strong either.
For roof mount, try the one with supporting legs.
Good luck

Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately the ground mount idea wouldn't work very well where I live in the suburbs. Its a common thing for vandals to climb up on tool sheds, and steal small 20 inch dishes around here, so a 1 meter dish with a motor would be a real tempting target for these folks.

Going to talk to a welder tomorrow about a brace or some way to try and set this dish up on the peak of my roof. It was suggested by a friend that we just lift up the shaky Dish where it is now and lay some plywood down and then bolt the roof mount back on top of the shingles. But I'm not too keen on that idea especially after the plywood starts to rot. And even with the LNB bolted upside down it just barely clears the shingles, so this is not a good location for this dish. I'll try to attach some pics of the current setup. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

 

[Davage]

GrumpyGuy - That is an awesome setup you've got there. Very nicely done!

 

[mastermesh]

I understand why everyone always puts dishes on the North side - to keep wind away, but when I was a big newbie (i.e. several months ago) I opted to put mine on the South side for clear view to the south - plopped the dish right there in the center of the slope of the house that faces south... Used a Soudon Universal mount that's suppossed to give plumb - it's promises are a little off kilter though as gravity plays against you so I needed to add a couple of extra screws to the roof, and use some wire to tie on to the plumb universal roof mount to make that plumb pole stay plumb over time.

So far, no big problems. Everything seems fine, and I've got a clear view from 30w to 148w. I love when I go up there to fiddle and the old neighbor lady in the apartments across the street asks questions like "ya having trouble with yar dish again?"

 

[digiblur]

Any reason why the LNB is mounted upside down?

Nevermind....I just saw. I hope it doesn't fill up with water.

I'd move the dish up higher.

 

[Pittsville]

Nice setup GrumpyGuy.

And that observatory in the background looks cool too.

Do you use that to find the satellites?

 

[GrumpyGuy]

Jsattv, here is another option. The bent pipe is replaced with straight length of thinwall conduit cut to length and drilled to accept your existing mounting bracket.

Two lengths of smaller thinwall are used to create outrigger braces. One end of each outrigger can be flattened and drilled and attached to a pipe clamp in the shop. The other end is best shaped on the roof after the clamps have been temporarily attached to the vertical conduit. Using a hammer and an improvised anvil of some sort resting on the roof surface the proper angle is easily shaped. The outriggers are bolted to the roof using lags (if you can drill down into a rafter), or machine bolts with fender washers (if you can't hit a rafter.)

After the outriggers are attached the vertical is plumbed and the pipe clamps are drilled and screwed securely to the vertical.

Be sure to the outriggers are of a proper length and angle so they their respective pipe clamps do not need to overlap in order to plumb the vertical.

... not as proud of this install, but it is just a temporary at a second location.

(Pit, Davage: Thanks for the compliments ... actually I have observed satellites from the observatory!)

 

[Davage]

GrumpyGuy - Thanks for posting the pictures. You've given me some ideas on how I can mount my reflector to my storage shed roof now. I'll be sure to post some pics when I've got it installed, hopefully this weekend if the weather cooperates.

 

[GrumpyGuy]

I just remembered: The bent pipe that came with the mounting bracket I used was just a bit smaller in O.D. than the thinwall conduit which replaced it. A couple of modest blows of the hammer on each side of the thinwall brings it nicely into spec. - hardly worth mentioning, unless it saves someone a trip down and back up the ladder.