need help! finally started my install.no success

[guapoharry]

...That is a perfect visual for the technique that I have tried to describe to others for a long time. I call it "pan and scan" because the phrase sounds rememberable, but I haven't had a really good visual tool to help explain it. ...

Glad you like that.

Got that jewel from a source called Satellite Uplink Training (Sams Manual for SNG operators) as mentioned in this thread...

Helps to read every thread. : Never know what you will find.

Jack don't know if this will help or confuse things, but try looking at the attachment in this post. That is a representation of what the satellite arc looks like if you could see it. You are trying to set up the motor to match this. If you get the latitude on the motor mount and true south right with a plumb pole, it just works...

 

[Santa Clause]

outbackjack, sorry, I wish I could help but I have yet to set up a motorized ku system. I just thought it ironic that my sister lived on your street about 30 years ago, Small World.

 

[outbackjack]

Santa Clause that would have been great. once i get it tuned in if you switch to a motor I would be glad to help. Radar you are absolutely correct. I have OCD and once I get focused on something my mind gets cloudy on what I really need to do and be patient. The good side of the OCD is the persistence till it is right as long as I dont rush it. thats why I print all of the recomendations to get me back on track. Guapo thanks for the jpeg reference....i printed that to...when my college ends this week I will let you know how it turns out and its raining here anyway. im switching to a mounted pole instead of a temp setup. i think adjusting the equipment will be easier with a stronger pole. i cant wait. thanks guys for all the help...72west here i come

 

[outbackjack]

ideas? i got 99w but thought i was on 97w?

it has been a couple weeks since last post. between kids college and work i havent had much time. i finally sunk a pole. it is solid and plumb. i put my 0 position at 196w (magnetic) and maybe because of los issues (probably more my errors) i still cant lock 72w. i can get 95w channels but as 97w in my receiver. i tried moving the motor with diseq 1.2 to the real 97w and now i get 99w and some 101w channels labeled as 97w. how far off am i? i will do like radar suggested and go back to true south tomorrow to try to get 72w but i just wanted to know how far off i am.

 

[Skjellyfetti]

loosen the motor clamps on your pole and rotate your motor and dish assembly 2 or 3 degrees to the east.

 

[AcWxRadar]

it has been a couple weeks since last post. between kids college and work i havent had much time. i finally sunk a pole. it is solid and plumb. i put my 0 position at 196w (magnetic) and maybe because of los issues (probably more my errors) i still cant lock 72w. i can get 95w channels but as 97w in my receiver. i tried moving the motor with diseq 1.2 to the real 97w and now i get 99w and some 101w channels labeled as 97w. how far off am i? i will do like radar suggested and go back to true south tomorrow to try to get 72w but i just wanted to know how far off i am.

OutBackJack,

You must not be very far off (two to three degrees one way or the other), judging from the results that you iterated.

I do recommend that you keep trying for 72.0°W (TP 11891 H SR 1666 or TP 12053 V SR 6890). If you think you have a LOS obstruction, try for 74.0°W (TP 11734 H SR 6616). If you can dial either one of these sats in, that will help you immensely.

If you are dialing in 97/99/101, I hope that you are not doing so with your motor set near the ZERO degree position or the HOME position (the motor tube centered in its travel range). If you are, then all your angles are way off.

You MUST drive the motor to the ZERO degree position or the center of its travel (there is a scale about the motor tube and ZERO is at the center). With the motor driven to this position, you then MUST adjust your dish elevation to what is calculated for 72.0°W or YOUR true south satellite.

If you have some sort of obstruction that blocks your LOS view of satellite 72.0°W, you will have to DRIVE the motor electronically to another satellite location using the receiver motor control menus and make your finer dish elevation and azimuth adjustments from that point. This is important as you cannot simply leave the motor at the ZERO or center position and physically/mechanically rotate the whole assembly on the mast to aim at a new position. If you do that, then you are doing nothing more than setting up a fixed point dish.

I don't intend to assume that you did this when you found 97/99/101, but I wanted to forewarn you (and others) that it cannot be done that way. The motor itself MUST have its reference point at the true south satellite, absolutely. It doesnt even matter whether you can detect a signal from that satellite, or not, it must still be your reference point in the end.

NO other satellite can be substituted for this reference position. However, you can extrapolate that reference position by locating other satellites that you CAN detect a signal from. It is not as simple nor as straightforward, but you can manage it with a little extra effort. Using a satellite that is closer to your true south satellite will prove to make your task easier.

In your specific case, you could also try for 79.0°W TP 11900 H SR 2170 (KTEL-DT channel). This would be better than 97.0°W. Any sat closer to your actual site longitude is better in the long run.

I would like to investigate your suspected obstruction in future posts. It would benefit you to really examine this and learn if it is truly blocking your LOS for 72.0°W or if you just need to spend a little more time dialing in the dish. Very often, you have a better LOS then you really think. The satellites are much higher in the sky than you perceive. Not always, but often.

If you have a digital camera or a cell-phone with a camera and can upload the pix to the site, try standing next to your dish and taking some panographic photos of your southern skyline from east to west. Try to take your pictures as nearly parallel to the horizon as you can (not looking upwards towards the sky, but just as you see it as you look across the landscape). We would like to see your terrain just as you see it standing next to your dish.

Looking forward to hearing feedback from you, take care for now!

RADAR

 

[delta_charlie]

OutBackJack,

---CUT---
You MUST drive the motor to the ZERO degree position or the center of its travel (there is a scale about the motor tube and ZERO is at the center). With the motor driven to this position, you then MUST adjust your dish elevation to what is calculated for 72.0°W or YOUR true south satellite.

If you have some sort of obstruction that blocks your LOS view of satellite 72.0°W, you will have to DRIVE the motor electronically to another satellite location using the receiver motor control menus and make your finer dish elevation and azimuth adjustments from that point. This is important as you cannot simply leave the motor at the ZERO or center position and physically/mechanically rotate the whole assembly on the mast to aim at a new position. If you do that, then you are doing nothing more than setting up a fixed point dish.

I don't intend to assume that you did this when you found 97/99/101, but I wanted to forewarn you (and others) that it cannot be done that way. The motor itself MUST have its reference point at the true south satellite, absolutely. It doesnt even matter whether you can detect a signal from that satellite, or not, it must still be your reference point in the end.

NO other satellite can be substituted for this reference position. However, you can extrapolate that reference position by locating other satellites that you CAN detect a signal from. It is not as simple nor as straightforward, but you can manage it with a little extra effort. Using a satellite that is closer to your true south satellite will prove to make your task easier.

---CUT--- RADAR

Hi Radar and the group, provided the OPs receiver has USCAL can't that be used to simplify setting up? If the OP does not have LOS to 72w and assuming that is the due south satellite then USCAL could be used to drive the motor west 2 degrees to 74w and the dish could be peaked there. On the bottom of the motor the scale should be a tick to the west of the zero mark if the dish was to be setup with USCAL on 74w instead of 72w.

Hope this helps, DC

 

[B.J.]

A couple of things...
While 72 is closest to your true south, it's still a bit to the west of true south, so while you should be aligning your MOUNT to the 196 magnetic heading (as a starting point), you should first use USALS or manual commands to move the dish a degree or two to the west, depending upon your longitude.

Also, I really wouldn't waste time finding sats at 97 or 99 or whatever, until you find 72. I would get a inclinometer of some kind, and set the motor as accurately as possible, then never touch that again. Find 72 with the dish elevation and by moving the whole mount on the pole AFTER using USALS to move the dish to AMC6. However, I would first insure that if you send the motor a GOTO-ZERO or GOTO-REFERENCE command, or whatever your receiver calls it, that it actually goes to it's zero position. If not, now is the time to fix that with a hard reset, ie now, before you have saved things.

But the usual issue that people have with finding sats, is not tuning a 24/7 transponder. On AMC6, the best transponder to use is that 12053V signal with a 6890 SR. If you're not tuning that freq/SR, then you probably won't see anything. Either that, or that religious channel mentioned in another thread. But most of the other transponders on this sat tend to come and go, and you can't rely on them to be there.

If you have one of those cheap little signal meters, you can use that to help find the sat, but it will probably lead you to the DN/DTV sats at 72.5, or possibly even to 77.5 or 61.5, since they are much stronger than 72.0. But those should get you close to the arc, then use the FTA receiver to go from there to AMC6.

 

[outbackjack]

yep that was the one thing i did do right was i had the motor at 0 degrees at my true south 196 degrees (or as close to true south with my compass behind the dish. i stood far enough away so the metal wouldnt throw the compass off. i went to my two local hardware stores to get a magnetic inclometer but they were both sold out. Radar i will give 79w a try. B.J. i do have the sat install meter kit from Sadoun but it peaks i turn it back and peak it again but when i check the receiver nothing shows up so i went to using a small tv and receiver at the dish. but i knew i was off a couple degrees getting 99 and 101 at 97 but saying degrees is that centimeters off for the motor or inches? i know the window is tight to get it aligned but wasnt sure how much movement is really needed to be off between sats.

 

[Lak7]

is that centimeters off for the motor or inches?

2 degree's on a 2" pole is about 1/32"

 

[AcWxRadar]

Hi Radar and the group, provided the OPs receiver has USCAL can't that be used to simplify setting up? If the OP does not have LOS to 72w and assuming that is the due south satellite then USCAL could be used to drive the motor west 2 degrees to 74w and the dish could be peaked there. On the bottom of the motor the scale should be a tick to the west of the zero mark if the dish was to be setup with USCAL on 74w instead of 72w.

Hope this helps, DC

DC,

You are right on the mark regarding using USALS to calibrate the arc. That is what I was elluding to... Using USALS.

However, the secret to the success of USALS is that you MUST have ONE satellite perfectly calibrated in order for all the other satellites (hence the arc) to fall into place.

That one satellite should be, it is recommended to be, the truest south satellite. Although it is not impossible to use another satellite or a set of several satellites to accomplish this goal of calibration, it does become a more difficult and lengthy process.

In cases where the true south satellite is blocked or it does not provide the signal band that your equipment is capable of processing (i.e. C-band vs Ku-band) you have to make accomodations. Maybe your best satellite signal is from a satellite that is 2-5 degrees away from true south, or more. Well, it's all you have got to work with, so you have to improvise. It isn't as easy, but it can be done with a little fortitude and patience and knowledge.

And, as B.J. mentioned, you want to utilize a signal that is broadcast 24/7. You want to seek out that consistent signal, something that you can rely upon to always be there for you to align to. Hopefully it is a strong signal for your local area.

Tracking the arc using USALS is much easier than using DiSEqC 1.2 as USALS does much of the work for you, you simply must get that one satellite perfectly calibrated. Hopefully it is as close to true south as you can be.

RADAR

 

[B.J.]

yep that was the one thing i did do right was i had the motor at 0 degrees at my true south 196 degrees (or as close to true south with my compass behind the dish. i stood far enough away so the metal wouldnt throw the compass off. i went to my two local hardware stores to get a magnetic inclometer but they were both sold out. Radar i will give 79w a try. B.J. i do have the sat install meter kit from Sadoun but it peaks i turn it back and peak it again but when i check the receiver nothing shows up so i went to using a small tv and receiver at the dish. but i knew i was off a couple degrees getting 99 and 101 at 97 but saying degrees is that centimeters off for the motor or inches? i know the window is tight to get it aligned but wasnt sure how much movement is really needed to be off between sats.

I'm not sure if I confused things with my comment about "use USALS or manual commands to move the dish a degree or two to the west" . I'm assuming that you're a bit east of me. I'm at about 70.8 deg, and I use the 72 sat, but instead of doing it with the dish at the zero position, I either use USALS to go to AMC6, which sends the dish about 1.2 degrees to the west of it's zero position, OR, I go out to the dish, and manually move the dish with the buttons on the motor so that it goes that same 1.3 deg west, using the little angle marks around the motor shaft (I assume your motor has these). Then I use the dish elevation to find the arc using a signal meter, then try to find the correct sat using the FTA receiver, and this may require moving the whole mount on the pole a bit.
Since you're closer to 68.8, you would need to move the dish via the motor about 3.5 deg west before looking for the sat.
I think this was mentioned before, but since your latitude is 44.6, make sure that the LATITUDE setting on your motor is just a bit MORE than 45 deg, ie you're aiming at about 45.3. This should give you an elevation setting of 44.7 if your motor has that too. Then, using the SF95 meter, raise or lower the dish to get a peak signal using dish elevation. This should get you close to the ARC, however what your meter will be seeing will be the 72.5 NIMIQ-5 satellite, which is a bit west of the 72 sat you're looking for. Once you find the dish elevation, then loosen the bolts that hold the mount on the pole just enough to allow you to rotate the whole assembly. Peak the meter this way too, but since you'll be peaking on 72.5, you'll want to move a little bit to the east of that peak, which should put you pretty close to 72. Then complete the fine tuning of dish elevation and mount on the pole by locking in on the 12053 V 6890 transponder. Make sure that your receiver is tuning that transponder, with the same freq and SR. The freq may be off a couple, like 12055, but make sure the SR is 6890. Once you get quality, adjust dish elevation and mount on pole to get peak of quality. Signal level isn't that important.

This SHOULD work, unless you have some obstruction blocking your view to the south, I'm really thinking that if this was the case, it would be obvious to you, since these dishes look like they're aiming lower than they really are, you probably would have been convinced you didn't have a view if it was even close.


BTW, try BJDISCALC2 this will give you the USALS angle and the proper latitude setting to put on your motor.

 

[nailpounder]

Sounds to me like you are blind scanning sats. First, you should find a strong TP in The List for sat you want to scan and use only that TP for initial setup. Also, I found that if your motor shaft has even slight play in it, it can throw off USALS 1-2 degrees. That's why my USALS has never worked right. Even if you're off on USALS, you should be able to get close enough to use DiSEqC 1.2 to bump the dish where it needs to go. It's really not that hard or complicated.

 

[outbackjack]

well i was in the hospital for a procedure for 24 hours so i couldnt mess with the dish till today. i was messing with it for over 4 hours. nedless to say i tried 72 again and no luck. but i used the motor controls on the receiver and i locked 97w about 200+ channels at 101 w. i eyeballed where it was at and moved 97w settings until it made a lock. i never moved my true south 196w. i kept going back and moving with diseq and blindscanning and now i had 89w coming in but the receiver says 87w. if i keep eyeballing anf moving slowly if i am locking the sats and not moving the motor from true south will this work? i ask this becuase despite bug spray i am getting eatin alive!!! i would like to slowly tweak the settings (i know Radar it isnt the best way ) as i continue to learn this. i guess my ques is if i continue to lock channels and i dont move my true south can i tweak the motor settings from my receiver? i love this stuff!!! i loved dxing as a kid and this reminds me of those days even if they arent the same.

 

[i4tas]

It seems to me that TCT-HD and GMDX both seem to be located at 98 degrees W. I get tons of bleadover from gal 19 and gal 16

 

[outbackjack]

i locked two abc news now and it said galaxy 28w so i figured i was only 2 degrees off to keep tweeking from the receiver and eventually from the sat for quality. i just cant stand all these bug bites.

 

[outbackjack]

72w locked at 62 but no channels??

okay I i went back to 72w sat (true south). i locked 12.055 v and 6890. it is locked at 62-65 percent quality. when i manual scanned with networks nothing came up. i tried other sats to see if it was aligned i got nothing. no 97-101w even with blind scan. so what do i need to do to get the signal stronger for 12055 before the other sats are okay? i rechecked for a plumb pole and that is okay. do i need to adjust elevation on the dish a little? i havent messed with the motor latitude it is at 45. the dish is at 33 (40 -6 degrees). thanks Radar, BJ and the rest of you guys for all the help.

 

[Lak7]

when i manual scanned with networks nothing came up.

Try a Blind Scan?

 

[outbackjack]

yep i tried that but nothing. is it because the quality is lower? should it be in the 70-90 range? i thought something must be off if i cant get any other sats to come in despite being locked at my true south.

 

[squid385]

I don't know about using a motor as I only use two fixed dishes, but the coolsat 6000 will start to break-up on SQ of 65 or below.