Naughty Mods III: 6x8 Switch with Power Insertion

[pendragon]

Since WB68 switches are intended to work with low current LNBFs, these Flex ports may be always powered, hence no commands beyond regular 4x8 switch scope would be required if signal combining (with or without freq conversion - bandstacking) is involved. Such combining, if present, would probably produce the intended by Zinwell result only if the Flex port is connected to a proper freq (Ka?) DTV LNBF, hence it may not work correctly with a bandstacked Sadoun's LNBF. Even in that case it MAY be possible to separate (converted) signal at each OUT port of the WB68 switch using a modded diplexer or high freq splitter, with added Freq Converter to one leg of it if needed, and pass it via an unused port of an 8x1 switch to an FTA Receiver to use these extra Flex ports. Of course, some signal degradation may result from the extra gear, but in-line amps will presumably compensate this. Or, may be merely editing Channel List file freqs matrix will do. Of course its just all guessing without Zinwell docs.

No, it doesn't work this way. This is my understanding of the stacking plan for the four 'normal' ports of a Zinwell 6x8:

18V/no tone:

250-750: 99W Ka-lo RHCP
950-1450: 101W Ku RHCP
1650-2150: 99W Ka-hi RHCP

13V/no tone:

250-750: 99W Ka-lo LHCP
950-1450: 101W Ku LHCP
1650-2150: 99W Ka-hi LHCP

18V/22 kHz tone:

250-750: 103W Ka-lo RHCP
950-1450: 119W Ku RHCP
1650-2150: 103W Ka-hi RHCP

13V/22 kHz tone:

250-750: 103W Ka-lo LHCP
950-1450: 110/119W Ku LHCP
1650-2150: 103W Ka-hi LHCP

So the legacy Ku-band stuff is where it always was and the lower and upper spectrum extensions carry all of the Ka-band spectra. Flex ports 1 & 2 are only for 72.5W and 95W, which only use one polarization each to my knowledge. Thus the Flex ports may only be intended to pass 950-1450 MHz for DTV purposes, although Zinwell could have simplified the design by passing 250-2150 MHz on all six ports.

The Zinwell 6x8 only switches ports and does no up/downconversion to pick out individual bands. Power is only applied to an input port if that port is selected for use. Otherwise it would be quite a heavy load on a single receiver to power everything that could be connected to the input ports. The important point is some form of signaling is required to select the Flex ports, and this does not involve the other ports in any shape or form. It could be anything such as different voltages, tone bursts, DiSEqC commands, fill-in-the-blank. I'm sure it's nothing exotic, and divining it would likely only take a few minutes with a scope and a DTV setup. If you can get Zinwell or DTV to cough up the spec, that would be even better.

Regarding your concern that a DiSEqC switch may block these DTV Flex Port commands (if any), are regular DiSEqC 4x1 switches cascadable, i.e. can they pass full scope of DiSEqC commands? It sounds, they don't, only 8x1's can.

A DiSEqC switch should pass commands not intended for it, and for the most part this is what appears to happen with both 4x1 and 8x1 switches. Whether this has any effect on Flex ports remains to be seen. If DTV happened to be using DiSEqC switch commands for these ports, this could be a problem for more complex FTA switching applications.

I still wonder, if there is any measurable incoming signal on a WB68 Out port when 18V and 0/22 KHz is supplied to it, if only the switch's single Flex port is connected to a signal source - that would clarify if extra commands are used by a DTV STB to switch to a Flex port or power it up.

I think these points are rendered moot when considering DTV's stacking map. I have read many references to the special commands used for selecting Flex ports. That doesn't make them right, but in the absence of any evidence to the contrary this makes the most sense.

 

[Achebee]

For Scanning the entire Arc not just DTV which Mult/SW is the best to MODIFY??

Hello folks, Anole sent me the link to this on another thread... I have been reading but I am still unclear on one item. I see the deal with the WB68 where you mention 2 ports for 72 and 95 sats...But the rest are for DTV?? Do I understand this right???
I keep seeing DTV written all over the Zinwells and others and I'm wondering if I try a mod such as yours on one will I be able to use it across the arc ???
I am not using DTV, I am just surfing the entire arc, not interested in DTV or Dish..
I Picked up an Orthomode with some real nice PLL LNB's the other day here in Honduras, really cheap, and I want to get the 18V happening on 4 lnb's, and I am not sure which Powered multiswitch would work best for me..
I was thinking the old 8x8's or 8x16 with the 24 volt in may be the better, but I am not sure..
To get 4 18v out happening to an Ortomode feed with all PLL lnb's which M/Sw would be the best???
thanks for your help, HB

 

[pendragon]

The Zinwell 6x8 should suit your purposes, but only the first four inputs work well FTA. The other two can be used, but they require custom software. To mod the WB68 for all 18V LNBs, you will need an external power supply as indicated in the first post. An alternative is the WNC 4x8, which also needs a mod to do this, but it comes with a power supply. Both are excellent for this type of purpose.

 

[stogie5150]

The Zinwell 6x8 should suit your purposes, but only the first four inputs work well FTA. The other two can be used, but they require custom software. To mod the WB68 for all 18V LNBs, you will need an external power supply as indicated in the first post. An alternative is the WNC 4x8, which also needs a mod to do this, but it comes with a power supply. Both are excellent for this type of purpose.

Pendragon, I was looking at your original thread on the WNC SWA-48, and decided to go that way on a c-band only orthomode. Am I correct in saying that according to your post, they worked okay as long as you weren't using universal or bandstacked LNB's? I don't intend of using more than two LNB's, I am going to use my 1m P* Dish for KU, with a regular dual LNB/non-powered multiswitch.

Your thoughts would be appreciated, for all us greenhorns.... :up

 

[pendragon]

Greenhorns?

Stogie - you should have no problems at all with the WNC 4x8s. I have even used them for bandstacked LNBs all the way up to 2150 MHz, but they start rolling off around 1950 MHz and some receivers don't handle the tilt above that point very well. The worst you'll see on C-band is with the extended spectrum Atlantic birds that go down to 3400 MHz. That translates to 1750 MHz through the switch, which is no big deal.

With a universal Ku, the highest frequency that needs to pass depends on where you switch up to the 22 kHz side. That point can vary between 1700-1900 MHz, and even that is feasible on the WNCs. However I'd recommend the Zinwell 6x8 for this purpose and also bandstacked LNBs.

 

[stogie5150]

Greenhorns?

Yeah, everytime I think I have a handle on something, I am reminded that I really know very little compared to guys like you, that have a vastly better knowledge of frequencies, techniques, etc., that I had never even Dreamed of.

(a greenhorn is a newbie, person with little experience,BTW)

Stogie - you should have no problems at all with the WNC 4x8s. I have even used them for bandstacked LNBs all the way up to 2150 MHz, but they start rolling off around 1950 MHz and some receivers don't handle the tilt above that point very well. The worst you'll see on C-band is with the extended spectrum Atlantic birds that go down to 3400 MHz. That translates to 1750 MHz through the switch, which is no big deal.

With a universal Ku, the highest frequency that needs to pass depends on where you switch up to the 22 kHz side. That point can vary between 1700-1900 MHz, and even that is feasible on the WNCs. However I'd recommend the Zinwell 6x8 for this purpose and also bandstacked LNBs.

Just what I needed to hear- can't see Farther than 43w due to trees, and I won't be using any universal Ku LNB's-THANKS! :up

 

[Achebee]

Pendagron: If I mod a 6x8 for 4 lnb's on a dual C/dual ku feed.. Will I have problems with the 72 and 95 sats out of the modded all 18v? those are 2 of my main sats here in Honduras for both C and KU band.
Stogie, I see on your latest thread you modded the 4x8 ...what's happening on the modded 4x8 with the 72 and 95 sats??

 

[stogie5150]

Pendagron: If I mod a 6x8 for 4 lnb's on a dual C/dual ku feed.. Will I have problems with the 72 and 95 sats out of the modded all 18v? those are 2 of my main sats here in Honduras for both C and KU band.
Stogie, I see on your latest thread you modded the 4x8 ...what's happening on the modded 4x8 with the 72 and 95 sats??

I don't use Universal LNB's, H. We don't get those signals in the States I don't think, we are out of the footprint. I am ortho on C-band (3.7-4.2gHz) only, BTW.

I don't have LOS Eastward of 43w. Pine trees.

 

[Anole]

As I recall, Stogie or I gave Achebee links to several multiswitch mods.

The one by Linuxman is excellent, and a 2x4 or 3x4.
But, very it's device-specific, and it may be difficult to find those switches.
It was intended as a general guide or how-to.

Pendragons work on the WNC 4x8 was my favorite:
- cheap switch
- readily available part
- included power supply
- adequate frequency response, since I'm not running bandstacked
- enough ports for my wildest dreams (8 receivers)

However, since Achebee was out-of-country, I thought the Pendragon 6x8 mod to the DirecTV switch would be a good second choice.
Especially if those switches were available locally.
Obviously, you can modify whatever switches you have around. -
But, using any of the three above which are so well documented, is easier.


As to any worry about using Universal LNBs for Ku ...
Aren't multiswitches and Universals mutually exclusive, at least in North America?
I don't see 'em as being a factor; and you can't get 22khz through the multiswitch, anyway!

edit:
oops, you can't get 22khz through 4x8 multiswitches.
You can (probably) can get it through 2x4 or 3x4 switches to run Universals.
Had a momentary mind-block, there! -

 

[pendragon]

Pendagron: If I mod a 6x8 for 4 lnb's on a dual C/dual ku feed.. Will I have problems with the 72 and 95 sats out of the modded all 18v? those are 2 of my main sats here in Honduras for both C and KU band.

For clarification purposes, Achebee's dual C/dual Ku is a dual orthomode feed with four LNBs. Each should get 18V because they do not switch polarity based on voltage. This means the mod should be made to all four input ports, whether a Zinwell 6x8 or a WNC 4x8.

 

[Achebee]

For clarification purposes, Achebee's dual C/dual Ku is a dual orthomode feed with four LNBs. Each should get 18V because they do not switch polarity based on voltage. This means the mod should be made to all four input ports, whether a Zinwell 6x8 or a WNC 4x8.

Thanks Stogie and Anol for the input.

To Clarify this: I would do the mod as per your photo with the 2 560 ohm resistors on the 4x8 right?? I would not need to mod the 2 inputs that are OK right?? I am just a bit confused as to the statement above concerning the mod should be made to all 4 input ports.
If I am fine with your photos on the mod for the 6x8 I will go ahead and try both switches as I was able to score one of each on fleabay. As per all of your fine threads and posts and photos on this, the bottom line is 18v on the 4 inputs, and I would not worry about the flex ports on the 6x8... right ???
Sorry for appearing to be a bit lost here, but I ,(like Stogie mentioned in an earlier post) am a Greenhorn, without a lot of experience digging inside of stuff, but one needs to begin somewhere... HB

 

[pendragon]

To Clarify this: I would do the mod as per your photo with the 2 560 ohm resistors on the 4x8 right?? I would not need to mod the 2 inputs that are OK right?? I am just a bit confused as to the statement above concerning the mod should be made to all 4 input ports.

You are correct about only needing to install two resistors. My original phrasing was confusing if not misleading.

If I am fine with your photos on the mod for the 6x8 I will go ahead and try both switches as I was able to score one of each on fleabay. As per all of your fine threads and posts and photos on this, the bottom line is 18v on the 4 inputs, and I would not worry about the flex ports on the 6x8... right ???

I would recommend not trying to use the FlexPorts for inputs. Several of us recently figured out how to command them, but apparently the only way this works is to have a PC tuner issuing non-standard DiSEqC commands every second or so. It's a real hassle.

 

[chapelrun]

Question for Pendragon

I'm trying this mod right now - - - and I have a question.

In the picture attached the two labeled "18V" are already 18V so way mess with them at all. Is this for a consistant 18V or some other reason.

I really only need two at 18V that are a pair because I feeding a Chap Dual as shown.

Sorry to bring back this old thread but I love this idea - - thanks pendragon!

 

[pendragon]

It depends on what you want. If you prefer to offload the receiver from powering LNBs and provide constant power to them regardless of which polarity/LNB is selected, then you need to modify all the jacks. This is the way I did it and would generally recommend this approach.

However it will work if you modify only the vertical jacks. In this case the receiver will have to power the horizontal LNBs and the switch will turn them off when you do not have them selected. You may experience some drift and warmup when selecting the horizontal LNBs, but the vertical ones will always be on.

 

[john_robot]

hey!! I have no electronic knowledge. So can you guys pls tell me if I buy any kind 1% 562 ohm resistors on ebay I can use it for this purpose ?

 

[pendragon]

That would work. On the other hand if there's a Radio Shack nearby that stocks parts, they have 5-packs of 560 ohm, 0.5 W resistors for $1.

 

[john_robot]

yep Tnx; I will check it @ Radio Shack .