my ugly and painful dish install
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What do you guys recommend if Dish doesnt fix this properly tomorrow?
Hire someone to fix and try and send Dish the bill?
Hire someone to fix and try and send Dish the bill?
I think code says you have to ground outside at the point of entry, but I consider grounding in a basement or even a crawn space as accecptable. Afterall, you are pulling your ground from a cold water pipe from inside the home anyways, so either way the lightning is going to enter your home either through a grounding wire connected to a cold water pipe of through a piece of coax.
Even if you where to install an 8 foot grounding rod in the ground outside, you should still be bonded with your electrical ground from inside the house. The best place to ground would be actually outside on the same ground rod as your main electrical service!!!!
I just cannot see a ground from an electrical outlet being accecptable
Even if you where to install an 8 foot grounding rod in the ground outside, you should still be bonded with your electrical ground from inside the house. The best place to ground would be actually outside on the same ground rod as your main electrical service!!!!
I just cannot see a ground from an electrical outlet being accecptable
Unfortunately,
Dish will probably do nothing. Since it was "free," you probably have no recourse. If you paid sales taxes on the install, you might argue that you are deserving of a correction or compensation. It would be hard to convince a court of such a compelling need to be compensated.
There is no incentive for "fulfillment installers" to do a good and complete job. They get paid by the job, not by the quality of their workmanship. Those who do good work are edged out of these installs, since, like me, I refused to do shoddy work by taking my time and had refused to do more than two installs a day.
I'd ask around the neighborhood and find a retired electrician or an installer from the "old school" who has meticulous attention to detail and who is not in a hurry to complete a job. There are people out there, who are really good at custom work. The best ones are known to the industry. I have several dealers, who refer me to customers. The dealers do only fulfillment work requiring rudimentary training in satellite TV installs. They refer all of their high end "in wall" custom work to me. As a matter of fact, I am retired with forty years in the electrical, TV antenna, and satellite TV industry.
Dish will probably do nothing. Since it was "free," you probably have no recourse. If you paid sales taxes on the install, you might argue that you are deserving of a correction or compensation. It would be hard to convince a court of such a compelling need to be compensated.
There is no incentive for "fulfillment installers" to do a good and complete job. They get paid by the job, not by the quality of their workmanship. Those who do good work are edged out of these installs, since, like me, I refused to do shoddy work by taking my time and had refused to do more than two installs a day.
I'd ask around the neighborhood and find a retired electrician or an installer from the "old school" who has meticulous attention to detail and who is not in a hurry to complete a job. There are people out there, who are really good at custom work. The best ones are known to the industry. I have several dealers, who refer me to customers. The dealers do only fulfillment work requiring rudimentary training in satellite TV installs. They refer all of their high end "in wall" custom work to me. As a matter of fact, I am retired with forty years in the electrical, TV antenna, and satellite TV industry.
Claude Greiner said:
Article 250, 2002 NEC, as well as previous editions require that the ground to a water pipe be continuous to the original panel main grounding clamp. Water heaters, water meters, water filters, and repairs made by plumbers, imcluding the use of plastic water pipe, can defeat this continuous ground. Approved clamps and grounding jumpers must be retrofitted to maintain the continuous ground.
In May 2003, I worked on my 80 year old father's 31 year old house in South Georgia. The grounded water pipe had been defeated with a long length of cold water pipe replaced with plastic cpvc. To upgrade the ground, I sunk an 8ft. 5/8" copper plated ground rod under the meter base and bonded it to the meter base with a 4ga solid copper conductor. The original clamp was to the water heater inlet pipe 10 feet away. Since it was no longer continuous, I ran another 6ga copper conductor to a clamp, where the main water service entered into the crawl space. No, his house meets with 2002 NEC standards. His satellite sysyem and OTA antenna are grounded to the 6ga conductor. Is it worth all of this work? Definitely, yes!
The satellite installer should be here in a couple of hours... I will post an update as to what they did / didnt do later.
Huh? I would find out if Dish would foot the bill before I pay someone else to do the job. I did not switch to Dish to spend more money than I was spending on Cable....quite the opposite. I switched to save money. If I have to pay someone a couple hundred dollars that defeats the purpose of switching. I would just keep having the Dish folks come back until they did it correctly.
Sky King49 said:
I second that!!
I've had installers come from the Portland Oregon area to my area(250miles or so) four or five times since November to do one initial install. It is still not right and I am expecting them to come back again on April 8th to finally get it right. Don't let them give you shoddy workmanship just because they are not getting paid enough or they are untrained. That is not your problem. If they don't want to be in the business or take on these jobs they need to get out. Otherwise, they need to take pride in their work. Be patient with your installers, offer them a cold drink on a hot day, or a hot drink on a cold day, but do expect them to do their job correctly. Inform yourself about what a correct install entails and hold them to it.
Still patient but patience wearing thin in eastern oregon.
Cheers.
Ok... Yet another idiot showed up to my house and didnt even have a ladder. Im getting pissed off now. Anyway the jack@## didnt do a damn thing! He said if it was him he would clean it up a little but pretty much leave it as is.
I dont know what to do anymore... This is so frustrating.
I dont know what to do anymore... This is so frustrating.
u4ea said:
Sorry to hear about your difficulties. Realize that your 'area supervisor's' job is to travel around and assure fullfillment customers that their install is OK and up to code. It sounds like your equipment works like it is supposed to right? You now have to make some decisions based on your state of mind and finances. Do you want them to do their job correctly or would it be better for you to avoid the fuss and pay others to do the job right. In my case I'm mad and want the installers to do the job right. Before I called them back after the last bad experience I made a clear, complete list of problems with the installation so that I had that in front of me when I talked to them. I also had a list of recourses I had in case they refused to talk to me. These can include CEO dish, your better business bureau, your state attorney general, your state's contractor's board, and your state's electrical board. When you call your installers back don't be afraid to chew your way up through the food chain. Have your paperwork in front of you in case they refer to sections of it. Always ask for the next person up. In my case I ended up with the president of the installation and the retail company.
Now to specifics and breaking the problem into pieces.
1. Safety first. It looks to me like the installer violated electrical code by grounding to an electrical outlet. Did they have an electrical license? Call the electrical board and find out. Once they opened up the receptical they were functioning as an electrician. On a practical level for the safety of your home and your electrical system the grounding needs to be done correctly.
Decide whether you want to force them to do it right or whether you can pay someone to do it correctly. The installer should take care of this.
2. Damage to home and property Things that fall in this category include drip loops to prevent water running into the house, other places where water can leak into or damage your home, and tripping hazards from cables running around the interior of your house. The installer should take care of this.
3. General ugliness. This category includes anything else that really bugs you. If the installer took pride in their work they would fix these things but they probably don't and won't. On a practical level, you will probably be stuck with fixing these things yourself.
best of luck.
Eastern OR -- Thanks for the info and comments. I called Dish Back this Afternoon and supposedly I have an actual DISH Employee Installer coming out this coming Friday. If they dont get it right this time Ill just tell them to take the stuff back and I ll take my business somewhere else... or at least thats how I feel now anyway.
progress 
Well about 2 hours ago, I received a call from a Customer Resolutions Specialist at the Dish Network Executive Office in regards to the email I sent to Charlie Ergan (2 nights ago) -- I spoke with a very nice guy there who appologized for the problems, and agreed with me that the install is not to the NEC code. He assured me that the situation will be resolved to my satisfaction. He also gave me all of his contact info so I can contact him directly with any questions etc...
The CSR guy also stated he really liked the fact that I had taken pictures of the install and forwarded the link to the photogallery to them. This way they can see exactly what the problem is. He said the main line of defense against stuff like this is pretty much just a phone call, but when they can see whats going on it really helps them fix the situation. He also stated that he would contact the management of both the Sub Contractors and forward them a couple of the images so they could see that an install such as this is totally unacceptable.
So we have yet another appointment on next Friday with an actual Installer that is a Dish Network Employee NOT a SUB. The CSR said that the installer will be able to move the dish and fix all the problems I am having. Hopefully the Dish Employee Installer will know that Charlies Office knows about the situation etc... and that he will put forth his best effort to resolve this situation 100% and maybe take some additional pride in his work when he is here.
I really have to hand it to Dish they are really trying to get this fixed. :clap Honestly, I didnt even really expect a response to my email for a least a week if at all. Anyway, I hope I can just get this whole deal settled and get on with my life
Well about 2 hours ago, I received a call from a Customer Resolutions Specialist at the Dish Network Executive Office in regards to the email I sent to Charlie Ergan (2 nights ago) -- I spoke with a very nice guy there who appologized for the problems, and agreed with me that the install is not to the NEC code. He assured me that the situation will be resolved to my satisfaction. He also gave me all of his contact info so I can contact him directly with any questions etc...
The CSR guy also stated he really liked the fact that I had taken pictures of the install and forwarded the link to the photogallery to them. This way they can see exactly what the problem is. He said the main line of defense against stuff like this is pretty much just a phone call, but when they can see whats going on it really helps them fix the situation. He also stated that he would contact the management of both the Sub Contractors and forward them a couple of the images so they could see that an install such as this is totally unacceptable.
So we have yet another appointment on next Friday with an actual Installer that is a Dish Network Employee NOT a SUB. The CSR said that the installer will be able to move the dish and fix all the problems I am having. Hopefully the Dish Employee Installer will know that Charlies Office knows about the situation etc... and that he will put forth his best effort to resolve this situation 100% and maybe take some additional pride in his work when he is here.
I really have to hand it to Dish they are really trying to get this fixed. :clap Honestly, I didnt even really expect a response to my email for a least a week if at all. Anyway, I hope I can just get this whole deal settled and get on with my life
I got another call from the Regional Quality Control Manager (Dish Employee) he will be the one actually coming to my house to do the install... He too had seen the pics on my site and agreed this is not the type of install myself or anyone should be receiveing. He is coming on Friday... so we shall see what happens.
