My ramblings on the 811

[sprinklerguy]

I Don't use any OTA so I am protected from some of the bugs the others are experiencing....but the CC is pretty damn annoying...I hate it.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

I think the previous person said major bugs... Though I would agree that a few of these are major bugs, I would have to disagree that 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, and 11 fit the catagory of major bug (Priority 1 or 2).

For Example, I have personally dealt with 6 for about a year and a half. Yes it is extermely annoying, but by not means a critical 1 flavor. There is also a work around for #6. The System Lock up surely fits Crit 2 status.

As for the enhancements that you listed, I would agree those are nice features. I would also like to see them.

I guess Major to some is minor to others and we all have different tolerant levels. Going over the list I used the criteria that companies I have worked for used to determined the criticality of a bug. Criticality is usually a function of what the bug does, customer exposure, work arounds, and customer pain. I am sure Major means something different to everone that owns and 811. However based on polls I have seen, most 811 users are satisfied with the 811 at this point.

The picture changing feature that someone mentioned I would not personally like. I like the ability to watch what I am watching currently while looking for something new in the guide. Also, that feature would require two tuners. The 811 only has one. Why two tuners? well what if you were taping the current show, would you like to see all those channels changing on your tape as you surf the guide.

>>>> GaryPen
While many of the bugs are related, they are indeed separate issues. And, IMO, a poor design and/ feature is worse than a bug, since it is may not be correctable through software update
<<<<<
Have to disagree here partially.. It can be worse than a bug and it may depend on what a poor design leads to. Are you talking about poor hardware design or are you talking software design? Any poor software design can be fixed, though many are not because of the cost associated with fixing them. On the hardware side, a poor design may or may not be fixable through software and that can turn out to be a huge ugly mess. Most poor Software arch choices can always be fixed, It is a matter of cost, exposure and risk that determines if they are.

I used most because I am sure there are some cases where software gets into the wild and a poor arch decision cannot be fixed do to layout issues and a bubbling effect that the software changes would create. This would fail into the huge risk area..

There is my 2 cents.

You left out a few:
3. Unable to acquire 148 bird when using 811 with Dish Pro switch/LNB.
4. Intermittent Closed Caption.
5. Some user are reporting that Dolby Digitial is not working properly.
6. Often goes into "acquiring signal" mode when going to the EPG directly from an OTA channel.
7. System lockups. In my case, at least once-a-day. when switching from OTA to EPG or sat. channel.
8. Recall button does not work when trying to recall channel between an off-air station and a dish station.
9. EPG needing to reload after being in either OTA or power off mode for a while. What is the point of 44-hour memory, if it can't remember it in those two situations?
10. VCR timer not working correctly if 811 is switched off. The recent software update at least finally enables the VCR timer to work if the unit is left on, though. That's a start.
11. Not able to tune a digital OTA station with less than 49%, and signal strength fluctuately wildly on some stations, that are received perfectly by Dish 6000 and other non-Dish OTA receivers.

Otherwise, the 811 works perfectly.



While many of the bugs are related, they are indeed separate issues. And, IMO, a poor design and/ feature is worse than a bug, since it is may not be correctable through software update.



That would be cool.
Personally, I'd like to see:
-EPG local channel info mapped to the OTA locals. (I believe D* HD receivers do this.)
-Wide screen EPG and menus. (D* HD receivers do this.)

or

 

[GaryPen]

To me, many of the ones on that list are major. Maybe not #1 priority, bit certainly #2.

#3, 4 and 7 are certainly #1 priority for those effected.
#6, 10, and 11 are #2 priority for me, and probably many others, as well.
I'd give the rest #3 priority.

Having a workaround for #6 doesn't make it any less a PITA. The natural inclination is to simply push the Guide button, when wanting to view the guide, regardless of whether one is watching a Sat or OTA channel. I often hit "Guide" without thinking, while viewing OTA channels, kicking myself afterwards.

If I, a person who has made his living working with Audio and Video euipment for well over 20 years can make such a "mistake", then it would be correct to assume that most 811 users do the same, and are stuck with an "acquiring signal" and possibly also a "downloading program data" screen for many minutes, if not a complete system lockup. That one is a #1 priority, in my book.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

To me, many of the ones on that list are major. Maybe not #1 priority, bit certainly #2.

#3, 4 and 7 are certainly #1 priority for those effected.
#6, 10, and 11 are #2 priority for me, and probably many others, as well.
I'd give the rest #3 priority.

Having a workaround for #6 doesn't make it any less a PITA. The natural inclination is to simply push the Guide button, when wanting to view the guide, regardless of whether one is watching a Sat or OTA channel. I often hit "Guide" without thinking, while viewing OTA channels, kicking myself afterwards.

If I, a person who has made his living working with Audio and Video euipment for well over 20 years can make such a "mistake", then it would be correct to assume that most 811 users do the same, and are stuck with an "acquiring signal" and possibly also a "downloading program data" screen for many minutes, if not a complete system lockup. That one is a #1 priority, in my book.

I agree with you that the work around on #6 is not the natural action. Workaround usually are not or they would be the mechanism to do the task which they are not. Like I said, the problem is also on the 6000 and it is one I personally have lived with for over a hear. Yes it is annoying as can be when you hit it, but in my case I dont get a complete system lockup.

There are still some random lockups on the 811. These will be hard to ferret out because not a lot of details are available as to the root cause and most of it is explained as random lock ups. Maybe fixing the other issues will help stabilize the box for all concerned.

I guess the difference between your view and mine is you are looking at things with the prespective of the effect you feel. I try to look at the issues from an overall perspective and the number of people that would be effected and the pain people would expect. As for the exposure, I look to these boards to see how many post are related to a particular issue.

Example: Closed Caption. I have never used it period. From the post I have read some people use it a lot but my guess is the numbers are small compared to the total 811 user space. That is why I would lower the priority. I am sure in some cases this is an essential feature. Others it is in the nice to have catagory. So I could see the argument for a higher priority classification....

Maybe it is just my software background getting in the way... but I tend to look at things in a more global scale.

 

[GaryPen]

...
There are still some random lockups on the 811. These will be hard to ferret out because not a lot of details are available as to the root cause and most of it is explained as random lock ups. Maybe fixing the other issues will help stabilize the box for all concerned.

I guess the difference between your view and mine is you are looking at things with the prespective of the effect you feel. I try to look at the issues from an overall perspective and the number of people that would be effected and the pain people would expect. As for the exposure, I look to these boards to see how many post are related to a particular issue.

Example: Closed Caption. I have never used it period. From the post I have read some people use it a lot but my guess is the numbers are small compared to the total 811 user space. That is why I would lower the priority. I am sure in some cases this is an essential feature. Others it is in the nice to have catagory. So I could see the argument for a higher priority classification....

Maybe it is just my software background getting in the way... but I tend to look at things in a more global scale.

Not exactly. You're looking at it from the SUPPLY SIDE perspective, not global scale. There's a difference, and I'm sure your years in the software industry contribute to that perspective.

I'm looking at it from the consumer perspective. The consumer perspective is that a product should work correctly out of the box. Period. If, for some reason, there are problems, they should be minor, and the company should do everything they can to correct the problems ASAP. Echostar appears to ignore both of those basic consumer needs on a regular basis.

As for the CC, it's an annoyance for me right now, since it works after reboot. However, for the people that don't use it, which are no doubt the majority, I'd say it's a major problem if they can't turn it off.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

Not exactly. You're looking at it from the SUPPLY SIDE perspective, not global scale. There's a difference, and I'm sure your years in the software industry contribute to that perspective.

I'm looking at it from the consumer perspective. The consumer perspective is that a product should work correctly out of the box. Period. If, for some reason, there are problems, they should be minor, and the company should do everything they can to correct the problems ASAP. Echostar appears to ignore both of those basic consumer needs on a regular basis.

As for the CC, it's an annoyance for me right now, since it works after reboot. However, for the people that don't use it, which are no doubt the majority, I'd say it's a major problem if they can't turn it off.

Well you can see it as a supply side vs. consumer side. Remember In this case I am using the product on a daily basis. I have also been a Dish Customer for over 6 years. I have been through a number of software upgrades and receivers and I have dealt with Advanced Tech support on a number of issues as a consumer.

Example... I started having reliability issues on my system right after a software upgrade. Worked through channels and Advanced support said that it was my wiring configuration. Something that had been working for 4 years. On the next software update, stability was back.

The reason I bring up this issue is that to me it was very critical. boxes locking up randomenly every two days. I looked on the boards and only found one other person having the same experience.

Point here is that to me this was a critical problem, but in the global scope not a lot of customer exposure. Two different ways of seeing it and maybe the wind blew in the right direction and by wiring starting working as designed... <<<< Joke >>>>>

From my perspective it is not about Supplier vs. consumer, it is about trying to get a true feeling of the overall state of receiver. To try and gauge the receiver in regards to making a purchase. Problem is when you read these boards most of what you see is issues and anger towards the fact the box is not working well enough. If you were to read some of the 811 threads without any personal knowledge you would think the box didnt work at all.

This was the same case with the 721. I did a few polls and as expected most people fell into the happy catagory on both the 811 and 721. Yes there are problems with both units. Yes both units should work better out of the box and yes Dish needs quality improvement in regards to their recievers. These are all known opinions from most people on these boards. You will not get an disagreement out of me on these points.

I guess I have choosen rather than yelling about what a piece of crap the 811 is to try and help document and classify the problems in hopes someone at Dish is reading this and it might trigger a thought in an Engineers head as to what is causing some of these issues. Hope here is the end result is a more stable product. Hopefully... My personal opinion on the 811 is that it is a step above the 6000 and for the price it is not a bad HD box.

I am one consumer with a certain perspective and obviously your perspective is different. It will be interesting to see how the consumer market moves into the realm where more and more integration occurs and more and more software functionality is added to receivers.

Why is there not one cable running from HT component to HT Component? I consider this the biggest critical one bug in video/audio equipment.

 

[GatorNut]

I'll add a couple major bugs with mine:
1) EPG will not load...period. Reboot, unplug, turn off. etc. and the EPG starts to load, stops par way through, times out, and kicks me back to a channel. I can repeat this until I'm blue in the face.
2) All my HD Dish channels lock up (picture freezes and audio drops) almost immediately after switching to them. The only one that never locks up is the HD demo channel. What's up with that? My OTA HD channels don't lock up either.

I have a new box coming as these appear to be more than the usual SW bugs.

 

[sprinklerguy]

I would consider my CC issue to be major.

I have never used CC...never will use CC...therefore when I cannot get rid of those pesky words on my screen...blocking the picture.....it is not only annoying but it pisses me off. Nothing like watching Boxing...only to have your eye constantly drawn to what Larry Merchant is saying...it is bad enough I have to hear that guy..let alone have to read what he is actually saying. I like it better when I can tune him out...I can't understand half of what he friggin says anyway...I don't want to read it. When I can read what he says...then I know what he is saying and I realize he is even more mindless than I thought he was when I couldn't understand what he was saying....follow that? If not, now you know how I feel when I cannot get rid of the damn CC.

 

[M Law]

...Nothing like watching Boxing...only to have your eye constantly drawn to what Larry Merchant is saying...it is bad enough I have to hear that guy..let alone have to read what he is actually saying. I like it better when I can tune him out...I can't understand half of what he friggin says anyway...I don't want to read it. When I can read what he says...then I know what he is saying and I realize he is even more mindless than I thought he was when I couldn't understand what he was saying....follow that?

You bet I do! :haha

 

[Kevinw]

6 and 9 are a priority. It is critical if you have to plan your viewing based upon will the box work or not. Should one have to set up channel to watch 5-10 minutes before hand just in case you have to reboot?
I never had these problems with my OTA only tuner. You should be able to turn on your TV and watch it with out waiting for everything to load..

 

[GaryPen]

6 and 9 are a priority. It is critical if you have to plan your viewing based upon will the box work or not. Should one have to set up channel to watch 5-10 minutes before hand just in case you have to reboot?
I never had these problems with my OTA only tuner. You should be able to turn on your TV and watch it with out waiting for everything to load..

It sure is annoying, ain't it? Why can't they get that one right, I wonder? If I understand correctly, the model 6000, which has been out for years, still does that! Amazing. (and not in a good way.)

 

[AdamB]

Well said. My 811 works great. The price was right, the DD works, and most importantly I now see HD! The only bug i've encountered are the locals dropping off the EPG. A minor inconvenience but no biggie. As far as SD, on my DLP i did a split PIP with my 501 on one screen and the 811 on the other and the SD was the same.

For a unit that's only been out less than 5 months, its pretty damn good IMHO.

Patience Jedi, patience. May the Updates be with you.

AdamB aka Jackie-O

I would like to take anyone here to task and see if ANYONE has purchased a HD receiver -- either freestanding or part of an integrated HDTV -- that did not have any bugs to chime in!! I have been in the HDTV market for three years and there has not been ONE--thats right--one HD OTA or OTA/Satellite unit that performed to the specs provided by the manufacturer for the stated unit.

We are are still in the product development stage of HD. Heck--the FCC still cannot agree on PSIP standards nor can they agree on what is and what is not HD! The FCC cannot agree what is an acceptable signal strength nor how much power a station must use for their HD signal! They cannot agree on how to deal with multipath and there has not been a final approval on which type of HD signal to use!! How can any manufacturer make a product bug free when there are no set specs and you can make them up?

And before anyone here pips up about the HDTVs with internal HD receivers--don't!! I had a Sony XBR57 and the tuner was replaced 4 times in 9 months!! I was going to buy the MITS with the HD tuner until my dealer informed me that they were not any better and that they were changing out HD receivers just as often!

Here is my gripe in a nutshell--YES the 811 has bugs. Every standalone HD or HD/Satellite receiver has bugs. If you do not like the unit do not buy it or return it--pretty simple. AND, if you decide you do not like the unit and replace it GET OUT of the forum and stop complaining. Go to the forum for your new equipment and converse there. People on the E* site want to hear from users not outside complainers.

As for the DD on the 811--when the HD product has DD being broadcast I have always received the DD signal. Not all HD products do DD--they usually state when they do. I have posted on this site before that there are some receivers that will not work with the 811 and that there are settings you must change in order for the 811 to work with others. Dish has acknowledged that there are some receivers that the 811 DD output will not work with. They are trying to see if that can be fixed--but for the majority of users--when DD is being used they are hearing it. I do not call this a major bug. I call this a minor inconvience--some of you might have to buy a new audio receiver to solve this--I recomend a Denon--works with everything.

As for the signal lock--that is EVERYONES complaint about every HD product on the market. Does anyone check the power output of the stations that they are trying to receive?
The site 'www.antennaweb.org' will not only help you find the right antenna for your location it will also help you find out the power levers of the different stations in your area. You will be very surprised at the differant power levels stations are using. AND, they do not use the same power level all the time!

While everyone has the right to complain and there are many situations where complaining and reporting problems is important in order to help find solutions--going onto a forum where you have no investment (ie--you do not use product or service) to make your sour voice heard is not helping to solve anything.

I agree with the original poster--I have tried several OTA products and the 811 is as good a product with the features it offers as anything currently on the market. Is it bug free--NO. Is it perfect--NO. Is it the best HD receiver on the market--Who Knows? However, for many of the new HD enthusiasts just entering into the market the price point the 811 is at currently makes the 811 a good addition to your home viewing pleasure -- even with its shortcomings.

 

[GaryPen]

For a unit that's only been out less than 5 months, its pretty damn good IMHO.

That's pretty funny. Oh. You were serious.

 

[snathanb]

That's pretty funny. Oh. You were serious.

I am really starting to wonder if they snuck in a hardware revision recently. I have had mine for only 10 days but....

DD always works
I've never had it lock up, never have had to reboot
No 49% problems...get immediate signal on all digitals.
I've never had CC come on, except the one time I turned it on.

 

[GaryPen]

I am really starting to wonder if they snuck in a hardware revision recently. I have had mine for only 10 days but....

DD always works
I've never had it lock up, never have had to reboot
No 49% problems...get immediate signal on all digitals.
I've never had CC come on, except the one time I turned it on.

I've never had a problem with DD, either.
My CC is normally turned on, but stops working randomly. When that happens, a reboot brings it back. (Of course, I understand that not all programming has CC. The problem happens during captioned programs.)
My OTA reception definitely improved with revision 264. But, it is still a bit flaky.

Perhaps your newer unit has revised hardware. Some of these issues may not be correctable through software.

 

[Oakenshld]

Double image using 1080i with 811

Has anyone had this problem. Sometimes (once or twice every couple of days) while watching anything on the 811 the screen just goes nuts and produces a double image about 6 inches removed from one another. I

ts like it is flickering back and forth very fast. I always watch everthing on 1080i on my Sammy DLP. The only way to fix it is to go to setup...HD setup and switch to 720p for about 2 or 3 minutes, then I can go back and it works. If I try to go back too soon it stays messed up.

I know of all the other bugs and I can live with them, but this one drives my wife NUTS! I had to walk her through it over the phone from work today aaarrgghhh!

Has anyone else seen this, or should I call to get it repalaced?

Thanks for any response

 

[snathanb]

sorry, never have seen that one.

 

[LeeS]

Ditto, my 811 has been pretty stable lately.

 

[GB42]

Everything on my 811 is fine unless you consider I haven't had local's off the 148 bird for almost a month now a problem. I'm beginning to think they are just ignoring this problem.