MS blames PC makers for disappointing Win8 sales

So you've 'adapted' to many OS's for 'a quarter of a century' (many of us posting have been using computers since pre-W3.1 too) but because you didn't install any of the half dozen free apps that suppress the metro UI Windows 8 is the worst ever (...you know there's more to Windows 8 than the UI right?)? Even that small amount of 'adapting' turns 8 into a better version of Windows 7 - the best OS they've probably ever released.
I don't see the logic in paying for an new OS, then paying even more for some hack written by some kid in his basement to make it usable. Microsoft could shut the door on those programs at any moment (as they did during the beta). If/when MS fixes Windows 8, I'll give it another shot. But I won't be wasting my time, money or energy otherwise. You and I are far, far apart on it being the best OS ever, no matter how much you hack it. If you like it, that's great, but I think they've ruined Windows on many levels with this Frankenstein monster.

As for the author being too stupid to close an app, his point was that it should be simple and intuitive. But like most things in Win 8, it's not. It took me an hour to figure out how to power the damn thing off, and in spite of what you may think of me, I'm not stupid. That's unacceptable in my book.
 
I don't see the logic in paying for an new OS, then paying even more for some hack written by some kid in his basement to make it usable. Microsoft could shut the door on those programs at any moment (as they did during the beta). If/when MS fixes Windows 8, I'll give it another shot. But I won't be wasting my time, money or energy otherwise. You and I are far, far apart on it being the best OS ever, no matter how much you hack it. If you like it, that's great, but I think they've ruined Windows on many levels with this Frankenstein monster.

As for the author being too stupid to close an app, his point was that it should be simple and intuitive. But like most things in Win 8, it's not. It took me an hour to figure out how to power the damn thing off, and in spite of what you may think of me, I'm not stupid. That's unacceptable in my book.

So basically you were stuck in metro, didn't want to learn anything or adapt as you boast being able to do for a quarter century and instead call it the worst ever even though your lone complaint can be solved by a half dozen FREE programs.

Miles apart in our definition of adaptability, but I think we're on the same page now.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
I don't see the logic in paying for an new OS, then paying even more for some hack written by some kid in his basement to make it usable. Microsoft could shut the door on those programs at any moment (as they did during the beta). If/when MS fixes Windows 8, I'll give it another shot. But I won't be wasting my time, money or energy otherwise. You and I are far, far apart on it being the best OS ever, no matter how much you hack it. If you like it, that's great, but I think they've ruined Windows on many levels with this Frankenstein monster.

As for the author being too stupid to close an app, his point was that it should be simple and intuitive. But like most things in Win 8, it's not. It took me an hour to figure out how to power the damn thing off, and in spite of what you may think of me, I'm not stupid. That's unacceptable in my book.

Considering how much cheaper this OS upgrade has been compared to previous MS OS upgrades, you still come out far ahead in terms of price.

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If you could buy a computer in a retail store that didn't have Windows 8 on it, I'd consider the argument that the hardware people aren't doing enough. As it is, they all rolled out their new models and lo and behold, they are mostly Windows 8.

Acer said very recently (via Bloomberg, picked up by CNET, ZDNet and PCWorld) that Windows 8 was hurting them and they own a pretty good chunk of the home computer business with their Acer, eMachines, Packard Hell and other labels. It is truly a pity when a mainstream company sells more Chromebooks than Windows 8 notebooks when the value of their Windows machines is among the highest in the business.
 
If you could buy a computer in a retail store that didn't have Windows 8 on it, I'd consider the argument that the hardware people aren't doing enough. As it is, they all rolled out their new models and lo and behold, they are mostly Windows 8.

Acer said very recently (via Bloomberg, picked up by CNET, ZDNet and PCWorld) that Windows 8 was hurting them and they own a pretty good chunk of the home computer business with their Acer, eMachines, Packard Hell and other labels. It is truly a pity when a mainstream company sells more Chromebooks than Windows 8 notebooks when the value of their Windows machines is among the highest in the business.

With downgrade rights, you can buy a win 8 computer and go back to win 7 on it.
 
Win 3.0 - Bad, Win 3.1 - Good, Win 95- Bad (Groundbreaking, but extremely glitchy as most peripherals refused to work with it for a long time), Win 98 - Good, Millennium - BAD!, XP - Good, Vista - BAD!!, Win 7 - Good, Win 8? Um, Bad. Do we notice a trend here? OK, I am ignoring Windows 2000 as it was mostly for servers, but otherwise, my hypothesis rings true... MS OSs are like the original Star Trek movies.... Every other one sucks.
 
Win 3.0 - Bad, Win 3.1 - Good, Win 95- Bad (Groundbreaking, but extremely glitchy as most peripherals refused to work with it for a long time), Win 98 - Good, Millennium - BAD!, XP - Good, Vista - BAD!!, Win 7 - Good, Win 8? Um, Bad. Do we notice a trend here? OK, I am ignoring Windows 2000 as it was mostly for servers, but otherwise, my hypothesis rings true... MS OSs are like the original Star Trek movies.... Every other one sucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy

Nothing that made the previous OSes bad can be related at all to the problems with 8. Issues with 8 center around metro which can almost 100% be circumvented and you can then just enjoy an improved 7 experience. Bugs, degrating performance, bloat... none of those are really issues with 8. It's all about learning the metro UI (with a few genuine quirks mixed in). Otherwise it's as solid if not better than 7, which last I checked was a pretty damn good version of Windows.

People just like to complain though, always fun to be a part of the mob. A lot of the 'told you so' is coming from people who haven't tried it, or weren't able or (mostly) willing to adapt and moved on instead of learning something new for the first time since 95. At least there's SOME room for having an issue with the metro UI being forced on everyone, but the hyperbole from the 'change is bad' crowd is deafening.

I ran 2000 for a while btw as my gaming machine, probably the most stable OS I've used until 7. It's conveniently skipped so the 'good, bad, good, bad' pattern can be used though.
 
I have Win 8 on a new laptop we bought for our house, and my parents have one they got for a new laptop as well. No touchscreens on either laptop. This OS does not play well with the old keyboard and mouse combo (hard to bring up the menus, screens fly in when we are trying to drag items with the mouse. My wife, used to XP, couldn't find a way to print a document with the default toolbars installed, etc.

The MS version of the app store is mediocre at best. All would have been forgiven if they made like earlier OSes and left us the ability to turn the new style off with a "classic view" setting like many MS OSes had previously let us have.

There is no easy way to pull up a list of all installed programs, which contributes to the frustration level for many as well.

My father, who works in my office along with 8 other people, BEGGED me not to have Win 8 on the new computers, and wanted to make sure that we had Win7 on the new boxes.
 
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Yeah, most mobile phones have a better store than the Windows 8 Store. It's pretty awful. A standard for every store, phone and otherwise, should be release notes, and option for install and uninstall when prompted to update. Mediocre is a pretty kind description for the app store IMO. Sure they've quadrupled the apps or whatever, but it needs a lot of help.

Those are the kinds of problems we can discuss and agree on for sure though.

All programs by the way, Start, then right click in any open area, gives you the bottom context menu and all apps. Should be most/everything that's installed.

I've turned into a Mac user with 8 though... i hit start and just start typing, then if it's a control panel or something I wanted to open I click settings. I think the whole universal search might be the biggest upgrade in 8, but it's lost in the mess that is the new UI. Searching and then choosing your context is nice. I wish I could search, hit tab, then start typing for the service I want to perform the search on, or just arrow down (hmm, maybe that works right now, hah - at work so can't try.

For example... if I wanted to search the store for solitare....

- Start
- type Solitare, tab
- start typing Store until it auto-corrects, hit enter

Metro could use a variety of first time user hints, kind of like OS X when you have your dock hidden and a notification just barely pops up below the bottom of the screen. Optionally maybe have a button you could press that would display the available contexts, like indicating there's a bottom menu if you right click, the charms if you hover a corner, multitask to the left, start at the bottom corner of any screen, etc.
 
If someone were completely new to a PC, then maybe it wouldn't be as difficult, but for those of us who have been using MS OSes for 20 years or more (I go back to the CP/M days), it just feels like a ME TOO attempt to mimic Apple that doesn't deliver Apple's polish and just makes an easy migration for PC vets more difficult than it needs to be....
 
If you could buy a computer in a retail store that didn't have Windows 8 on it, I'd consider the argument that the hardware people aren't doing enough. As it is, they all rolled out their new models and lo and behold, they are mostly Windows 8.

Acer said very recently (via Bloomberg, picked up by CNET, ZDNet and PCWorld) that Windows 8 was hurting them and they own a pretty good chunk of the home computer business with their Acer, eMachines, Packard Hell and other labels. It is truly a pity when a mainstream company sells more Chromebooks than Windows 8 notebooks when the value of their Windows machines is among the highest in the business.

That may be true by now but I looked in a number of reatail outlets about a week after release and I found as many windows 7 machines as Windows 8. The rollout was not as coordinates as prior ones were. Now is that the fault of MS , the PC makers, or the retailers? I cannot say.
 
If someone were completely new to a PC, then maybe it wouldn't be as difficult, but for those of us who have been using MS OSes for 20 years or more (I go back to the CP/M days), it just feels like a ME TOO attempt to mimic Apple that doesn't deliver Apple's polish and just makes an easy migration for PC vets more difficult than it needs to be....

Oh I agree, change is hard and shouldn't be taken for granted. They should and are taking a lot of heat for not doing more to help those who need it.

Isn't it the only one since Windows 7?

Pfft, details.

That may be true by now but I looked in a number of reatail outlets about a week after release and I found as many windows 7 machines as Windows 8. The rollout was not as coordinates as prior ones were. Now is that the fault of MS , the PC makers, or the retailers? I cannot say.

Probably all of the above. Last thing retailers want to do is become supply-constrained by under-ordering anything in October-December
 
How is windows 8 in any way an attempt to mimic apple? On a phone or computer front?
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That may be true by now but I looked in a number of reatail outlets about a week after release and I found as many windows 7 machines as Windows 8. The rollout was not as coordinates as prior ones were. Now is that the fault of MS , the PC makers, or the retailers? I cannot say.

Is it lack of coordination or slower than projected sales causing high inventory and slow turnover of inventory?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2.x
 
So basically you were stuck in metro, didn't want to learn anything or adapt as you boast being able to do for a quarter century and instead call it the worst ever even though your lone complaint can be solved by a half dozen FREE programs.

Miles apart in our definition of adaptability, but I think we're on the same page now.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
You're making some really bad assumptions and still completely missing my point. You're unhappy with a professional's negative opinion, which is fine. But I'm simply trying to explain why I think it's the worst OS I've ever used.

I'll put all my cards on the table. Yes, I'm long time software pro. I thought that would lend a little context and credibility rather than offend, but I apparently thought wrong. As a developer for Win 8 and many other OS's, I have many copies of it which I use for development and testing. I've tested it quite thoroughly and use it even today when I have to. I know all the in's and out's, I know my way around metro and the desktop and have used most of the start menu replacements quite successfully. I am not stuck in metro land. I've already adapted to Win 8 just like every other OS I've had to use over the years (against my better judgement). So that ship has sailed. I wish I could get those wasted hours of my life back, but I can't. Win 8 is so bad on so many levels, I see no reason to embrace it or expend the required effort to adapt to it (although I already have in many respects). What I can do is not use it in my home or on my own personal system at work, which is what I've elected to do. I go out of my way to buy systems without Win 8 or at least downgrade when possible.

Perhaps an analogy will help illustrate my point. I could adapt to wearing scuba gear in everyday life (Win 8). I could add mechanical devices to restore my dexterity (start menu replacement). It would be awkward, but I'd get used to it, and life would go on. One benefit is I'd probably get more oxygen than I would otherwise (better performance). But that's not enough for me to voluntarily subject myself to all the drawbacks. I look at Win 8 the same way. It bogs me down in my everyday tasks and makes everything take twice the time and effort. What used to take 2 clicks now takes 3 or 4 plus a text search or cryptic keyboard shortcut or hunting expedition.

Now to give credit where credit is due, monkeys and toddlers can probably navigate to twitter or facebook on Win 8 quite easily, and even finger paint. But I need a little more functionality than that.

I can adapt to the Win 8 way, but why should I when the Win 7 way is so much more efficient. Win 8 may boot a little faster and be a little more secure. But those small gains aren't worth the losses in other more important areas. Add to that the odd mix of interfaces, ugly and inefficient styling, requiring text searches to find programs and settings, nonsensical icons, and often used functions being removed or hidden in bizarre locations, and you have a recipe for disaster. They took everything good about OS design and threw it out the window just so they could bolt on some playskool start page.

So, in my uninformed, ignorant, baseless, hyperbolic opinion, Win 8 is still the worst OS I've ever seen.
 
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With downgrade rights, you can buy a win 8 computer and go back to win 7 on it.
It is a nice theory assuming you can readily get the appropriate drivers and support after you've done it. Downgrading is not an enticing prospect for the average consumer.
 

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