MPEG4 ... Where's The Beef?

[slacker9876]

While I have read many of the "local" topics and feel I have adequately browsed that main threads, I am still left with one question. Where's the beef?!? MPEG4 has promised to deliver up to 1500 LIL & 150 national HD channels and so far I have yet to read here or hear about elsewhere about any dramatic MPEG4 utilization or improvements. This prompts the following questions:

When will the overall picture quality of the service be improved as the result of MPEG4?

When should we expect the first national MPEG4 enhancement, be it an interactive or lineup addition?

Why is D* only boasting the top market launches when HD LIL is all the people there are getting? Most of which are able to receive via OTA (or cable TV)?

Of the launched cities, what percentage of the channels are being delivered in MPEG4? Also, how good are they?

I do understand that the roll out will be a very lengthy process and that we will probably not see the implications here in the first 3 weeks (LOL). However, I have not seen a D* commercial or anything as it relates to MPEG4 and I find this odd. I would think they would want to pump this and implement it as a marketing tool. I also have not seen feedback here saying how "great life is now that I have MPEG4 receivers."

I must say from a personal standpoint, I have begun to evaluate cable as my option for the next couple of years since there is no commitment. The wife (the real NFL ST sub in my house) has said screw that, but when I look at the fact that I get a storage upgradable HD DVR, plus ALL locals in HD (including Altitude Sports & Entertainment for AVS, NUGS) and more actual HD channels, I wonder if I really want to wait. I even broke out the financials just for fun. With Compcrap I get more HD and all the same channels (that I care about) for 16/mo less ... and I am not on a promotion! I can also get TV's hooked up WITHOUT a mirror charge. Although I must admit, quality is what drove me to satellite in the first place, and cable is not there yet. I say yet because in a conversation with my installer, now that the head end of our cable system is HD & Internet capable, they are testing (today) all digital lineups for my market. Then there would be a comparable platform.So I guess I'll just see what I see!

Back to my main point, sorry about the diversion, where's the beef and what is the real time-line?

 

[vurbano]

Who ever promised better PQ? IMO Verizon will have the beef eventually. The rest are just jerkin us around.

 

[Hogarth]

When will the overall picture quality of the service be improved as the result of MPEG4?

Never. These are new satellites and new programming. No changes are being made to any of the other sats at this time.

When should we expect the first national MPEG4 enhancement, be it an interactive or lineup addition?

I read a thread from Robert @ VE over on the TiVo boards that said national MPEG4 channels would be Q3 2006.

Why is D* only boasting the top market launches when HD LIL is all the people there are getting? Most of which are able to receive via OTA (or cable TV)?

Because Marketing is overzealous, and doesn't have anything else to promote.

Of the launched cities, what percentage of the channels are being delivered in MPEG4? Also, how good are they?

All of them. They're great if you can't get OTA. Otherwise, they're average -- mainly because they're local channels.

However, I have not seen a D* commercial or anything as it relates to MPEG4 and I find this odd. I would think they would want to pump this and implement it as a marketing tool. I also have not seen feedback here saying how "great life is now that I have MPEG4 receivers."

It's not odd at all. "We're pleased to announce that we're now able to give you merely most of the channels that your cable system already could give you at the beginning of 2004. Oh, except you can't DVR them. Oh, and we have to replace your hardware. And put up a new dish."

Any heavy push of MPEG4-based marketing aside from vague LIL announcements would merely drive people to cable that much faster.
There's nothing else here to get excited about.

Back to my main point, sorry about the diversion, where's the beef and what is the real time-line?

2007, the same as it's always been announced.

H

 

[rad]

Why isn't D* promoting the new LIL-HD, probably because just by word of mouth they have more work then they can handle doing installs. There has also been spot shortages of the AT-9 dish which might also explain the lack of promotion.


While where you live most folks might be able to get their HD local's via OTA there are a more then a few folks that have problems. In Chicago, the local CBS stations ATSC channel assignment is channel 3 which has cause many a person nothing but grief getting a signal to lock. LA has problems with multipath with the mountains. Denver has the problems with the NIMBY's that won't let new towers be constructed as examples.

Speaking for Chicago and my experiance, the video on the MPEG4 channels looks the same to me as the OTA's. There is an issue that I've see with audio going out of sync every now and then and on the CBS station I hear quick audio drops on a fairly regular bases. D* says that they'll be adding more local HD channels but haven't said when yet.

As for your cable system, since each system is different it's hard for me to compare to yours. I know I've tried them twice and while the HD picture quality was better then D* or E* the analog was hit and miss as to which was better. The numbers also didn't work out since I have three DVR's and Comcast wanted $10/month/box. And while you don't need to pay a mirroring charge now that will be changing once your system moves to all digital and you'll need to get a digital STB for more then just the very basic tier of channels. Comcast is making a big push for this since they can free up 60 to 60 analog channels to be used for more digital/internet/HD services.

 

[slacker9876]

Never. These are new satellites and new programming. No changes are being made to any of the other sats at this time.

Well, that just about makes the decision there. If D* does not decompress back to the PQ of old days and my particlur Comcast market is going to be all digital, I'll have to see how good all digital cable is or is not.

I read a thread from Robert @ VE over on the TiVo boards that said national MPEG4 channels would be Q3 2006.

Too little too late, I am willing to write off Sunday Ticket, especially with what D* has done to the price. I would rather pay for an FTA setup and pull them myself.

All of them. They're great if you can't get OTA. Otherwise, they're average -- mainly because they're local channels.

Agreed ... it certainly is better than nothing! My cable HD Local compares to my OTA, but my D* HD is sub par to both.(Jeez ... am i turning in to a D* basher, I hope not) But whe you say all, I was actually refering to the current slots also, so I think you mean all local, none national, thereby no enhancement.

Any heavy push of MPEG4-based marketing aside from vague LIL announcements would merely drive people to cable that much faster. There's nothing else here to get excited about. 2007, the same as it's always been announced.

Again, I agree!

Looks like there is no beef!

Why isn't D* promoting the new LIL-HD, probably because just by word of mouth they have more work then they can handle doing installs. There has also been spot shortages of the AT-9 dish which might also explain the lack of promotion. While where you live most folks might be able to get their HD local's via OTA there are a more then a few folks that have problems. In Chicago, the local CBS stations ATSC channel assignment is channel 3 which has cause many a person nothing but grief getting a signal to lock. LA has problems with multipath with the mountains. Denver has the problems with the NIMBY's that won't let new towers be constructed as examples.

The dish is part of my aprehension ... big ol SOB and I don't know if I want that 32lb monster. I am in the Denver DMA so I am aware of the problems, all the more reason I have been kicking D* in the ass for the last 3 years.

Speaking for Chicago and my experiance, the video on the MPEG4 channels looks the same to me as the OTA's. There is an issue that I've see with audio going out of sync every now and then and on the CBS station I hear quick audio drops on a fairly regular bases. D* says that they'll be adding more local HD channels but haven't said when yet.

The same is good ... certianly better than nothing if that is what you have and better then the "normal HD lite D* & E* are propigating."

As for your cable system, since each system is different it's hard for me to compare to yours. I know I've tried them twice and while the HD picture quality was better then D* or E* the analog was hit and miss as to which was better. The numbers also didn't work out since I have three DVR's and Comcast wanted $10/month/box. And while you don't need to pay a mirroring charge now that will be changing once your system moves to all digital and you'll need to get a digital STB for more then just the very basic tier of channels. Comcast is making a big push for this since they can free up 60 to 60 analog channels to be used for more digital/internet/HD services.

Yeah the 3 DVR thing is a bitch ... I to am used to a DVR in every room ... as to non-DVR TV's ... CableCard my friend, and those are free.

 

[rad]

Yea, it's big, but there's other houses in my subdivision that have the AT-9 and some with Superdish or Dish1000 and they don't look that bad. Most of them have them mounted so you can hardly see them from the road. IMHO, it's the size and how bad it would stand out and not how much it weighs.

 

[CPanther95]

You won't see any big MPEG4 push with national channels until they have the supply line set and all the LIL bugs worked out. They don't want 650,000 HD subs all looking to convert at once. Plan on earlier year additions in MPEG2.

 

[rmmrph]

Cable cards are not free, at least not in my area. They still carrry a monthly fee.

 

[herdfan]

I read a thread from Robert @ VE over on the TiVo boards that said national MPEG4 channels would be Q3 2006.

Which just happens to coincide with NFLST.

And as Cpanther said, maybe expect a couple of new channels early next year in -2.

 

[slacker9876]

Cable cards are not free, at least not in my area. They still carrry a monthly fee.

Comcast provides them at no charge, here anyway.

 

[vurbano]

Which just happens to coincide with NFLST.

And as Cpanther said, maybe expect a couple of new channels early next year in -2.

Frankly I would be happy for another year with 2 or 3 new HD channels (CINMAXHD and TNTHD) and everything at 1920x1080i. Screw everything else.

 

[slacker9876]

You won't see any big MPEG4 push with national channels until they have the supply line set and all the LIL bugs worked out. They don't want 650,000 HD subs all looking to convert at once. Plan on earlier year additions in MPEG2.

I understand that, the hangar for me is the fact that they will not decompress their current lineup ... it doesn't make sense (to me) to add more programming if your current lineup looks like crap, ya know?

 

[slacker9876]

Frankly I would be happy for another year with 2 or 3 new HD channels and everything at 1920x1080i. Screw everything else.

I feel ya on that! My cable looks as good as my OTA, but I am not jumping ship yet. Perhaps D* will realize that quality is more important than quantity, but I doubt it.

 

[Proc]

It will take quite awhile to get all the HD subs on board with the new receiver (H20) and AT9 dish. I think D* will push the new setup on new customers and slowly move the current HD subs to the new equipment over the next several years. I would be willing to bet that most new national HD programming will be 2 and not 4 until the migration to new equipment is completed. As I have mentioned in these forums before, I hope they come up with a lighter, smaller dish as compared to the AT9/5LNB thing out now.

 

[raoul5788]

Comcast provides them at no charge, here anyway.

They provide the card free, but there is still a monthy charge, yes?

Chip

 

[CPanther95]

Frankly I would be happy .........................................at 1920x1080i. Screw everything else.

Edited for effect.

 

[Greg Bimson]

When will the overall picture quality of the service be improved as the result of MPEG4?

Never. These are new satellites and new programming. No changes are being made to any of the other sats at this time.

Well, that just about makes the decision there. If D* does not decompress back to the PQ of old days and my particlur Comcast market is going to be all digital, I'll have to see how good all digital cable is or is not.

How can DirecTV improve the PQ? I always see everyone longing for the good ol' days, but you must understand this isn't possible.

After all these years of channel additions, then HD additions, there simply isn't any more bandwidth. And none of the current MPEG2 Ku-band bandwidth can be converted to MPEG4 or anything for some time.

I am willing to write off Sunday Ticket, especially with what D* has done to the price. I would rather pay for an FTA setup and pull them myself.

I hope you don't expect all the games to be available FTA. All the backhauls are blacked out; only if you can find CBS or FOX affiliates FTA will you get a chance to get Sunday NFL games. Of course, that would be if you can find CBS or FOX affiliates FTA.

DirecTV is trying to walk a fine line. Many cable systems can provide a lot of HD, including local channels. DirecTV is planning to use their Ka-band spectrum to do the MPEG4 HD feeds, both national and local. And the local channels, those broadcasts that DBS needed to stimulate growth, are the same properties that the DBS companies lack in order to compete with cable. DirecTV will have 12 major markets by year's end; Dish Network starts HD local additions in January.

DirecTV has made their announcements. No one truly cares if it is MPEG2 or MPEG4; they just want their options on getting HD. DirecTV has stated 1500 local and 150 national in HD by 2007. Now it is time for the implementation.

 

[hancox]

How can DirecTV improve the PQ? I always see everyone longing for the good ol' days, but you must understand this isn't possible.
After all these years of channel additions, then HD additions, there simply isn't any more bandwidth. And none of the current MPEG2 Ku-band bandwidth can be converted to MPEG4 or anything for some time.

I respectfully disagree. With the imminent plan to upgrade LA and NY HD customers, combined with a fairly small cost to upgrade DNS HD customers, D* could free up a fairly big slice of bandwidth, NFL ST aside.

 

[SoonerSteve]

I know those in my position who can't get OTA signals due to terrain issues are the minority on these boards, but we are the majority of users in total. I think D* is on the right track offering HD LIL first.

Remember, offering local channels (SD) was the tipping point for D* and E* to compete with cable and gain more urban customers. The same will be true with HD LIL. I, for one, can't wait to get my locals in HD. I tried the cable route and their analog dreck outweighed the HD locals so I went wtih D* and the great HDTivo deal.

If there are more national channels that is great, but this minority voice wants his HD locals first.

 

[Greg Bimson]

I respectfully disagree. With the imminent plan to upgrade LA and NY HD customers, combined with a fairly small cost to upgrade DNS HD customers, D* could free up a fairly big slice of bandwidth, NFL ST aside.

Well, then, that depends on what you call significant.

There are three HD channels at 101, where the main programming is located. Once CBS-W, CBS-E, and NBC-E in HD are moved, that only frees one and a half transponders. Over a 26 transponder arc, I don't consider 1 1/2 transponders a big slice of bandwidth.

The other five HD networks are at 119, for a total of two and a half transponders. Out of the 11 transponders DirecTV owns, four are used for spot-beams. This leaves 7 for CONUS delivery. Sure, two and a half transponders is good savings, but moving general programming here won't happen; many people have only a single-slot, 101 dish.

Let's not forget that DirecTV 9S is going to 101 sometime next year. That could take up to another 6 transponders from the 26 remaining at 101 (six out of the licensed 32 are already being used by DirecTV 4S for locals).

Until everyone is forced to upgrade, there won't be "signficant savings" of bandwidth at 101.

I could believe that DirecTV may add more national HD (like TNT, etc.) to 119. But until we hear anything about the addition of new channels, I'll have a hard time believing it.