Moxi Versus TiVo

[jayn_j]

The point is that TiVo IP is worth enough that it won't get that far.

Bicker, do you have stock options? Your responses to this and other threads seem to indicate some kind of insider bias to TIVO and certain cable interests.

I got your point. You missed my point that a buyer could easily structure so as to let the costly support stuff die while preserving the valuable IP.

 

[riffjim4069]

I really like our TivoHD, but I am leaning toward picking up a MoxiHD box in the near future. We shall see...

 

[bicker]

Extraction is free with the tivohd. I can pull any recording off of my two in HD and do WHATEVER I want too with them.

Technically, you're told that you need to make an additional purchase (TiVo Desktop Plus) to do more than a certain list of things, but if you're technically inclined you can figure out how to do those things without making the additional purchase.

And as I indicated (by my lack of saying something earlier), I don't know of any corresponding software approach, paid or free, for the Moxi.

 

[bicker]

Bicker, do you have [TiVo] stock options? Your responses to this and other threads seem to indicate some kind of insider bias to TIVO and certain cable interests.

No financial interests or bias to TiVo except as a mostly-but-not-totally satisfied customer.

With regard to "certain cable interests", I have an array of shares stemming from my career at Bell Labs which ended over 15 years ago... so those started out as AT&T shares, and morphed into little itty bitty financial interests in just about every company in the industry: Liberty Entertainment, Liberty Media, Discovery Communications, Alcatel-Lucent, Ascent Media, etc.

Could you please post a list of your stock holdings now? Thanks!

I got your point. You missed my point that a buyer could easily structure so as to let the costly support stuff die while preserving the valuable IP.

No I didn't miss your point; I rejected your assertion of its significance in the context of a comparison to Moxi. In other words, all that is relevant to the specific message was the comparison between the two. If the two were the same with regard to some aspect, then that aspect is not relevant to the comparison. What's relevant to the comparison is where things are different.

 

[vurbano]

Technically, you're told that you need to make an additional purchase (TiVo Desktop Plus) to do more than a certain list of things, but if you're technically inclined you can figure out how to do those things without making the additional purchase.

And as I indicated (by my lack of saying something earlier), I don't know of any corresponding software approach, paid or free, for the Moxi.

Wrong. The tivo desktop software is free. Tivo desktop plus has a bunch of file conversion crap in it if you dont already have it for placing movies on your handheld or etc .Software for your PC or Mac to work with your TiVo DVR - TiVo
Transferring movies to your computer is 100% absolutely FREE. There is no additional purchase.

AND read the moxi stuff carefully .... it is ONLY streaming.
They used too have an FAQ where they admitted that they had no means of file transfer, now they disguise it and that part of the FAQ is GONE.

 

[jayn_j]

Could you please post a list of your stock holdings now? Thanks!

Certainly. I went all in several years ago on a start-up. It eventually failed when my wife's cancer became critical and I neglected the business to tend to her during her final months. I lost everything, including the house and my 401K. I have worthless stock in my companies (Smart Sensor Systems - Home and Complete Test, When you need Test and Measurement done right) I also still have a small amount of employee stock from HP and Agilent. I currently rent, and wander around the country, supporting my two kids with engineering contract work.

No I didn't miss your point; I rejected your assertion of its significance in the context of a comparison to Moxi. In other words, all that is relevant to the specific message was the comparison between the two. If the two were the same with regard to some aspect, then that aspect is not relevant to the comparison. What's relevant to the comparison is where things are different.

Sorry, but you made he assertion that a TIVO subscription was good as gold because of the IP. I disagreed and gave a scenario where the IP would be protected while the users were left hanging. I actually see that as a likely scenario, thus making both suspect in the long run.

 

[Amiga]

given its recent legal successes and its firmly-established reputation in the marketplace, at worst, someone stronger will buy it, and so legacy TiVo owners will be supported regardless, in accordance with the current terms and conditions.

I don't see much risk in purchasing a TiVo. DIRECTV is still supporting the ReplayTV boxes out there that haven't been produced in years. In fact, DIRECTV pumped out a software update that addressed the DST change. If a media company, like DIRECTV, bought TiVo down the road, I'm sure they will already be paying for the guide data for their current portfolio of products. Zero ReplayTV support and free guide data ain't breaking the bank at DIRECTV.

 

[bicker]

Technically, you're told that you need to make an additional purchase (TiVo Desktop Plus) to do more than a certain list of things, but if you're technically inclined you can figure out how to do those things without making the additional purchase.

Wrong. The tivo desktop software is free.

"Wrong." I wasn't talking about TiVo Desktop. I was talking about TiVo Desktop Plus, and if you cared to read the message you were replying to, you'd know (1) that I mentioned TiVo Desktop Plus in a very specific context, and (2) that I mentioned that there were other ways to do what TiVo Desktop Plus does, without the added cost. Rather than trying to seem like you know what you're talking about, and perhaps you do, why not spend a little more time reading what you're replying to so you don't post unnecessary and inflammatory replies. Okay?

And as I indicated (by my lack of saying something earlier), I don't know of

AND read the moxi stuff carefully .... it is ONLY streaming.

Thanks for the info. As I indicated before, I didn't know the full story with regard to extraction from Moxi, so I appreciate the update.

 

[bicker]

I currently rent, and wander around the country, supporting my two kids with engineering contract work.

Thanks for providing some context for your bitterness against the industry. Sorry for your misfortunes.

Sorry, but you made he assertion that a TIVO subscription was good as gold because of the IP.

No, I never said anything about being "good as gold". Those are your words not mine. I made very specific statements. If you have a problem with them, then please argue against them instead of something easier to argue against. :tux:

What I said was that TiVo's IP made it very likely that TiVo would be acquired prior to any need for Chapter 7 liquidation. They'd likely either be sold outright, or be sold in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. And as such, the buyer would be obligated to continue providing service as per TiVo's liabilities. You're welcome to your opposing opinion.

 

[bicker]

I don't see much risk in purchasing a TiVo. DIRECTV is still supporting the ReplayTV boxes out there that haven't been produced in years.

Thanks for mentioning DirecTV. TiVo, of course, has a venture underway with DirecTV for a new DirecTiVo. If it is anything like the last DirecTiVo, it will use the same service operations as the stand-alone TiVo's do, so effectively the health of Liberty Media helps bolster the likelihood that TiVo will do well once it comes to the end of its run as an independent company.

 

[jayn_j]

Thanks for providing some context for your bitterness against the industry. Sorry for your misfortunes.

Uh, now who is putting words in mouths? I never said anything about being bitter. If you had bothered to look at the links provided, you would have seen that my company was in a totally unrelated industry (electronic test and measurement) I took a shot, and it didn't work out.

I do not have any interest in consumer A/V products, except as a consumer. I try to keep an open mind on all of this.

No, I never said anything about being "good as gold". Those are your words not mine. I made very specific statements. If you have a problem with them, then please argue against them instead of something easier to argue against. :tux:

What I said was that TiVo's IP made it very likely that TiVo would be acquired prior to any need for Chapter 7 liquidation. They'd likely either be sold outright, or be sold in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. And as such, the buyer would be obligated to continue providing service as per TiVo's liabilities. You're welcome to your opposing opinion.

The two bolded phrases are the only place where we differ. In earlier responses and here, you keep saying that the buyer is OBLIGATED t continue service. I simply pointed out an alternate scenario. It is a scenario that has been used many imes in the recent past to rid a company of its toxic assets. And TIVOs lifetime service obligation is toxic to anyone buying that "significant" IP. I never said his is what would happen, only that it could and thus creates risk to TIVO purchasers as well.

 

[bicker]

Uh, now who is putting words in mouths? I never said anything about being bitter.

That was my perception based on many of your earlier comments... if not bitter at this industry, then bitter at consumer service industries in general. That's just the message I'm getting from reading what you wrote. Sorry if that's off-target.

In earlier responses and here, you keep saying that the buyer is OBLIGATED t continue service.

No I didn't. I outlined a very specific set of conditions on that, which you've chose to omit in your attempts to restate my points -- that's why I've been getting the impression that you're bitter toward industry: You seem to just focus on half of the statements, and leave off the half that is necessary to understand and see the truth of the entire statement. Again, I'm sorry if my assumption in that regard is off-target.

To be clear, a company that acquires the assets of another company directly, or through bankruptcy, is required to honor the liabilities of the company acquired. That's the law -- there should be no confusion about that.

I simply pointed out an alternate scenario.

An exceedingly unlikely scenario, Chapter 7 liquidation, given the demonstrated value of TiVo's IP, given that Moxi, which has a lot less going for it, in terms of intrinsic value, was recently acquired directly -- not through liquidation. Yet you've refused to acknowledge these realities. Again, I'm sorry that this evokes assumptions in my mind that you say are in error.

 

[harshness]

Contemplate the level of support offered by DIRECTV for ReplayTV and see if your opinions/attitudes aren't impacted when theorizing about what would happen.

After you've done that, imagine how a level of service like that would impact the average TiVo user.