Move to MPEG4 - So is 921 obsolete in 05?

[luckycat]

So based on some other threads I've read here Dish is going to be using MPEG4 vs. 2 for future HD content (in a year?). That being said, why would anyone pay $549 (sorry to those who paid $1K) for this technology if it won't be able to decode new HD streams introduced in 05 or 06? Or let's say it's a slow transition period, two years out... big deal? I should not have to pay $500 or more for a device that won't give me all of the HD content that Dish provides in just 1-2 years.

I was considering buying a 921 at the new price point, but I probably am going to hold off now in light of this, unless I am totally misunderstanding what the move to MPEG4 would do to current 921 owners.

What do you think? And does this impact at all other current receivers, or were they talking about MPEG4 only for HD content?

 

[bdemz]

Agree

I totally agree with you and am quite disappointed. I was ready to pull the trigger at the new price point but with the announcement of the MPEG4 thing coupled with DISH stating that they will not be offering any new HD anytime soon I cancelled.

How the heck will DISH compete with cable? My local cable co. (Comcast) offers a dual tuner HD/DVR and 3-5 more channels of HD for 9.95 per month.

It would be nice to see their HD plan. If they have one....

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

It would be nice to see their HD plan. If they have one....

That's the problem I don't think they have one.

We are an open forum, if Dish has a plan I welcome them to post it here. Although I doubt they ever will.

The move to make the 921 $549 is a attempt from Dish to try holding on to good customers as they feel that if a customer just paid $549 for a receiver they are not going to go anywhere.

I expect to hear on next months Charlie Chat more Bullsh!t that they are trying hard to add more HD channels and that they are in negoations for additional HD content. Its been the same line of crap they have feeding us for a long long time. I beleive its time that people opened their eyes and demanded they be told whats really going on.

Email ceo@echostar.com and make your voice heard.

 

[WildBill]

For those worried about their HD receivers becoming obsolete within a year, take a deep breath and consider the following:

1) Raise your hand if you can list a major technological upgrade to receivers that was widely available within a year of first announcement. Johnny? Suzie? Anyone? Most likely it will be at least two years before enough of the MPEG-4 receivers will be available to force a transition.

2) Do you really believe that E* can go two years without adding any new HD channels? Cable and D* are not going to be standing still while E* gets its act together. How many subscribers would they lose if they tried that? My guess is that in addition to working out the OTA bugs (so that people can have more non-sat. HD programming), Dish will add 2-3 MPEG-2 HD channels to reduce losses to the competition.

3) As has already been pointed out, the old receivers will still work with any existing HD channels at the time of transition, just not new channels added after that. So unless the new programming is an absolute must-have, you can still get by with your old receiver for a while.

4) Given the current trend, the new receivers will likely be leased, not purchased. So it will not require a large up-front expense to upgrade.

For those folks (like me) who are thinking of getting a close-out 921, I think the real question is whether you feel that $549 + installation is worth having HD PVR capability for a couple of years while waiting for the MPEG-4 PVRs to be released and debugged. I'm leaning toward getting a 921.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

1) I agree with you on with Dish Engineering couldnt hit a target date with a guided missle.

2) Dish will add more HDTV channels before then, however they will compress what they have now and give us HD Lite. To me this is not acceptable.

3) This is true (Although when Charlie kept saying that by switching over to MPEG4 Dish will instantly double their capacity I was a little confused)

4) Correct I have been talking about Dish going lease only for awhile now.

 

[WildBill]

2) Dish will add more HDTV channels before then, however they will compress what they have now and give us HD Lite. To me this is not acceptable.

I think E* is keeping a close eye on the reaction to D*'s adoption of HD lite. If they can get by with a bunch of compliants, but few defections, E* will jump on board. Better PQ as a marketing edge won't have much punch if that happens.

 

[Grandpa J]

Scott-

If not for you and others on this forum I do not think any of us who do not have a direct connection to Dish would get any honest information. I've been with Dish 9 years and do not recall E*/Charlie giving honest COMPLETE info, hipe yes but full disclosure no.

I posted elsewhere, that the Dish handling of HD both equipment and programming is making me look at alternatives. Yes I will email Charlie.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Thanks Grandpa J,

We are not here for the Satellite Companies beneifit we are here for the Consumers. I feel this forum has been a great tool for each of the satellite companies, and a great recource for consumers everywhere.

We always try working with each satellite company however most of the time the only time we get interaction from the Satellite companies is when they need something.

We always have the red carpet out for them to freely speak and set the record straight, however they choose not too do so, and I can't force them to do so.

We would love to work closer with them but work just as well without them, we have our ways of finding out stuff before it is supposed to be known.

The door is always open to them to use SatelliteGuys as a resource to communicate with its customers and let them know whats going on. Again I can't force them to do this, they have to make that decission themselves.

What makes SatelliteGuys great is everyone expresses their OPINION's on things, and while someones opinion may not be correct or we may not agree with a persons opinions we still give each and every person a chance to make their voice heard. And thats what makes SatelliteGuys such a great place.

 

[luckycat]

HI WildBill,

For those worried about their HD receivers becoming obsolete within a year, take a deep breath and consider the following:
1) Raise your hand if you can list a major technological upgrade to receivers that was widely available within a year of first announcement. Johnny? Suzie? Anyone? Most likely it will be at least two years before enough of the MPEG-4 receivers will be available to force a transition.

Yes I'm aware of this...perhaps I simply want more stability and better game plan spelled out by Dish. I purchase Dish to get channels. I don't want to buy anything that will restrict the channels I can get in few years. None of the standard def receivers have this potential 2 yr (let's say) obselesence. 95%+ of programming I could get with a 4900 4-5 yrs ago I can still get today.

2) Do you really believe that E* can go two years without adding any new HD channels? Cable and D* are not going to be standing still while E* gets its act together. How many subscribers would they lose if they tried that? My guess is that in addition to working out the OTA bugs (so that people can have more non-sat. HD programming), Dish will add 2-3 MPEG-2 HD channels to reduce losses to the competition.

I don't know. They have not said what their plans are. I don't think they will survive if they don't add HD content, but again I haven't heard anything beyond "not enough compelling HD content" from Dish.

3) As has already been pointed out, the old receivers will still work with any existing HD channels at the time of transition, just not new channels added after that. So unless the new programming is an absolute must-have, you can still get by with your old receiver for a while.

Since HD programming now is very scarce, adding just a few HD channels is, relatively speaking, huge news. Almost anything that they add now to the HD lineup I would consider "must have"...it's not like we're talking TLC-HD or Comedy Central-HD or Free Speech TV-HD, we're talking Max HD, Starz HD, Bravo HD. Some of that "uncompelling content".

4) Given the current trend, the new receivers will likely be leased, not purchased. So it will not require a large up-front expense to upgrade.
For those folks (like me) who are thinking of getting a close-out 921, I think the real question is whether you feel that $549 + installation is worth having HD PVR capability for a couple of years while waiting for the MPEG-4 PVRs to be released and debugged. I'm leaning toward getting a 921.

Scott's recent post gives me some hope, and I agree that the sky isn't falling (yet) on Dish, but they had better start thinking longer term about their HD strategy, so they don't wind up with a lot of paper weight HD receivers out there, or incur a lot of costs swapping out receivers. I'm probably going to get a 921 anyway, because I've been waiting so long to time shift Enterprise in HD!!

 

[Stargazer]

The only way I could see paying more for the 921 than a 721 (difference in price between the two) at this point in time is for the extra storage on the hard drive for SD programming and MAYBE OTA HD programming if I would even be able to get a signal in the future although I already get SD locals from the satellite.

 

[Roller]

Wouldnt it be possible for the 921, and 811 for that matter, to support MPEG4 also? Its really just a different codec that it uses to view the stream. I wouldnt see why it would be impossible for the receivers to just be sent this codec

 

[mwsmith2]

Wouldnt it be possible for the 921, and 811 for that matter, to support MPEG4 also? Its really just a different codec that it uses to view the stream. I wouldnt see why it would be impossible for the receivers to just be sent this codec

I would guess because the decoding is done in hardware, not software.

Michael

 

[John Kotches]

Michael (mwsmith2) says:

I would guess because the decoding is done in hardware, not software.

You would guess right. MPEG-2 decoding is done on an ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) not by a general purpose processor.

It would be theoretically possible to add MPEG-4 capability, but it too would require an ASIC.

Cheers,

 

[boy921]

I have contacted Dish Network and I have been told that the 921, 811, and the 6000 will NOT become obsolete.

 

[Sean Mota]

I have contacted Dish Network and I have been told that the 921, 811, and the 6000 will NOT become obsolete.

Did they give it to you in writing? Otherwise, they can turn around a year from now and said we never said that!

 

[boy921]

Did they give it to you in writing?

Yes

 

[Sean Mota]

Yes

And it has a DishNetwork logo as well... Correct? If so, please take your personal information and post it. So everybody can have it and they can't pull anything down the road.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have contacted Dish Network and I have been told that the 921, 811, and the 6000 will NOT become obsolete.

This is correct, the programming you receive now you will continue to get in the future, if you want any of the new programming you will need to upgrade your equipment (and thats not sure if its a new receiver, a new switch or some other kind of new technology)

 

[Neutron]

Won't that make this a channel streaming nightmare, having some programming on MPEG2 while other progamming is on MPEG4?

 

[Stargazer]

Not obsolete since it will still be able to be used to view SD programming, but they didnt say obsolete when it comes to HD, as in it will be able to still be used even if ALL HD programming would be converted to MPEG 4. You really have to watch how companies word things.