Microsoft takes back Win 10

[TheForce]

The real downside of Windows 10 is that they've hidden all the stuff that gave me the control that I need. It is hell trying to dig up the familiar control panel elements in that boar's nest of a menu system.

Agreed! But many of those apps I have found in the windows files and added a shortcut to them on the desktop.

I've managed to ween my users from using Microsoft Office in favor of LibreOffice

I'll have to check that out. I recently subscribed to Office 365 just to get word, Excell, and Outlook. The other stuff I don't need or ever use. The cost is $99 a year for 5 machines both Windows and Mac, and free iphone equivalents. This is far cheaper than what we were paying for older versions. I'll have to check out Libre Office to see how that compares but I'm pretty happy with Office 365 subscription.

 

[navychop]

Any recommendations on a book or article on W10 for W7 users?

I HATE W10!

 

[Foxbat]

I see my Windows 10 Pro refurbed Lenovo says that version 1803 is available for installing, so sure, why not?

I see that Win10 has an option to limit "metered connections" so that should be an option for when people are traveling and using their phone's HotSpot to prevent major updates from occurring. But yeah, it's like they have that scene from "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" on a loop on every screen in the hallways of Microsoft (you know, the one where Bones is lamenting how Sick Bay is going to be unrecognizable and says, "You know engineers. They love to change things...")

I have yet to see a version Microsoft Windows client or server where the method for performing a daily task has not been rejiggered "just because" from the previous version.

 

[Comptech]

I am with Lone Gunman on his therory. I have 2 desktops and a laptop. My Ryzen7 machine is a windows 10 machine just so I can use it's full potential. Once you get the hang of it and turn everything off you don't need it is quite snappy. But, the laptop and my Phenom machine both run Ubuntu and I love it. Does everything I need without all the bloatware. The Ryzen7 machine is the toy machine just for fun.

 

[DWS44]

It is hell trying to dig up the familiar control panel elements in that boar's nest of a menu system.

Very true. I find most of the time, I just either go straight to typing what I need in the settings search boxes, or go straight to the old Control Panel anyways.

 

[Lone Gunman]

Black Viper has an easy to use guide for windows service configurations. It made a night and day difference with my win 7 machine, went with the "safe" option.

Home | Black Viper | www.blackviper.com

Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. IIRC I used some of his tips and tweaks way back on Vista and early on with Win 7. I don't remember ever having problems with his stuff so I'd bet it's still a safe site to use.

 

[EarDemon]

Any recommendations on a book or article on W10 for W7 users?

I HATE W10!

https://www.amazon.com/Windows-10-Dummies-Andy-Rathbone/dp/1119049369

Yes, there are some annoying things about Windows 10, but very little is forced that you cannot change. A lot of tweaking can be done with third party applications and local GPOs. All three of my computers at home are Windows 10 and one of my two work computers is Windows 10. Configuring 10 in a corporate environment is a pain if you're like me and work in a small organization with only 150 or so PCs, where it's not worth it to use an imagining service and the refresh cycle is run 'em til they die. I also don't like that Microsoft is intentionally neutering Pro to push organizations towards Enterprise which is VL only and makes no sense for a lot of small organizations.

Since I'm not the average PC user and since I don't like change and have always enjoyed the clean look of NT4/95/98/2K and tweak the UI to look like that, I'm not the best to comment on this. But I now have 30-40 users on Windows 10 and have heard next to no complaints. Some of the software we use had to be updated, but the biggest problem is one of the CAD packages we use had problems with the WIN10 drivers for a couple of the AMD Fire Pro graphics cards. That was solved by upgrading to a new version. 99% of my users just start typing whatever they're looking for in the Start Menu and let it auto populate the search results and find what they need, if it's something they'll need on a regular basis they will just create a shortcut further cluttering up their already atrocious desktop.

Last Tuesday I downloaded the 1803 image from Microsoft and reformatted and re-installed on my home and work laptops. All is good, no problems.

 

[harshness]

Very true. I find most of the time, I just either go straight to typing what I need in the settings search boxes, or go straight to the old Control Panel anyways.

Oddly, Windows 10 doesn't find common things when you use the search feature or you have to type out the whole description before it will pop up. I can see obscuring some things but not the one that you use to check for Windows updates! It coughs up some of the more dangerous ones like secpol or services pretty readily.

 

[harshness]

The desktop isn't the real tragedy with Windows 10. The real tragedy is the start menu. Next is the control panel.

The third party menu fixes don't seem to work as well as they did before. As I said earlier, it all makes it that much easier for me to sell my users on non-Micro$oft software.

 

[N6BY]

... Sure enough, the new install had really screwed up the resource allocations in the computer and half the hardware was non-functional. All complaining of no resources. ...

Microsoft's updates rendered some of my devices disabled.

The updates added a requirement that all device drivers must be digitally signed. Fortunately there are two workarounds for this.
1) You can run Windows in "Driver Signing Test Mode".
2) Microsoft has issued a patch for Windows 7 to let you go back to being able to use unsigned drivers. Links for where to get the patch are in the 4th post on the following page: Uno 1.2 Driver problems with WIN7 - SDRplay Community Forum I am not sure if there is a similar patch for Windows 10.

I chose option 2 and now my unsigned drivers work again with Windows 7.

Here is where Microsoft describes the new requirement to use signed drivers: Driver Signing Policy

 

[TheKrell]

I was starting to feel a little less nausea about using Windows 10 until I fired up the Solitaire app and saw the true colors of Windows 10. What a scam!

Thus far the only thing I like about Windows 10 is that it makes everything else I use look so much more appealing in its simplicity.

The real downside of Windows 10 is that they've hidden all the stuff that gave me the control that I need. It is hell trying to dig up the familiar control panel elements in that boar's nest of a menu system.

I will forever be looking for ways to remove Cortana permanently.

Fortunately, I've managed to ween my users from using Microsoft Office in favor of LibreOffice so the next steps should be much easier. I was surprised that only one person pushed back and when I showed her how inserting common text blocks was easier in LibreOffice, I haven't heard a complaint since. Death to the ribbon!

I would like to "like" this post about 100X! Death to the ribbon! That's right up there with the flat user interface and almost impossible to grab window resize margins, which have even infected Office these days run on W7.

A lot of tweaking can be done with third party applications and local GPOs.

That's nice, but why should it be necessary?

 

[EarDemon]

That's nice, but why should it be necessary?

Because it's a personal computer, and you can personalize it. Unlike Apple, Microsoft understands that this is not one size fits all. With the locked down prison ecosystem of Apple you are at the mercy of what they deem appropriate for the end user. Don't like what they do, too bad, Apple knows best. They are the dominatrix, they tell you what to do and you obey and thank them for the privilege. While Microsoft is not as open as Linux or Android, the Windows OS is extremely customizable, both natively and through add-ons. I believe there are third party Office add-ins that restore the classic menus.

Why is it necessary? Because there are millions of different ways to tweak the user interface and add functionality and Microsoft can only make one default look and feel. I do wish Microsoft had a modern day version of Power Toys. I used to spend hours playing with the old TweakUI.

 

[navychop]

Well, a dominatrix can make good money, and this one certainly is.

 

[Foxbat]

Well, a dominatrix can make good money, and this one certainly is.

But what's the Safe Word?

The only thing I noticed that was Very Different was the addition of the Most Used icon next to the Start Menu. Well, and the update seems to have broken the Windows Driver for the HP Envy 4520 we have upstairs. No errors or anything, but it says it's printing and the job disappears off the queue, but the printer never wakes up or gives any indication there's a job.

 

[navychop]

Never pick as a safe word “more.”

 

[harshness]

Because there are millions of different ways to tweak the user interface and add functionality and Microsoft can only make one default look and feel.

Why does it seem that the default interface is getting more and more objectionable? That's a trick question because I know that Microsoft is doing what they do to support Dummies book authors and seminar companies who offer hours and hours of expensive trainings to figure out how to navigate the dozens of pointless changes that in turn, make another generation of end users beholden.

Is it really helping productivity that users are more and more forced to spend time and energy finding and tweaking workarounds that may not survive the next release? I tried a couple of the classic start menu programs only to find that subsequent releases of Windows blew them up or at the very least, crippled them.

The new start menu is so inflexible to modification and enhancement as to appear a first failed effort rather than the latest. With all the pinning required, we're all going to be experts at body jewelry.

 

[EarDemon]

I've been using Classic Shell since a few months after it was released in 2009 or 2010 and have yet to run into any problems. Used it on a daily basis with Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and all six versions of 10. Not to mention the Server equivalents of 2008R2, 2012, 2012R2 and 2016 in VMs. Not one issue, although I don't have a lot of the nitty gritty customized, I keep it basic, but a new version of Windows never crippled by experience.

Don't really have an issue with the Control Panel either. I Have a cascading Control Panel, just like I did with Windows 95 and the trick Leo Laporte showed on Call For Help.

 

[TheForce]

I know that Microsoft is doing what they do to support Dummies book authors and seminar companies who offer hours and hours of expensive trainings to figure out how to navigate the dozens of pointless changes that in turn, make another generation of end users beholden.

But this dummy would like Microsoft to work on their troubleshooter section of windows. Every time I try to use it I always get the same response. I launch it and the gears turn, the wheels spin and after 30-60 seconds the response comes back as: " I'm sorry I can't figure out what is wrong." So next, I go to Google and do a search on the problem in in under 2 seconds, I get a web page that offers 3-5 possible solutions to the problem with step by step instructions and in 99% of the time one of them works. So tell me, why is it that Google knows more about Windows than Microsoft?

 

[harshness]

I've been using Classic Shell since a few months after it was released in 2009 or 2010 and have yet to run into any problems.

The original author of Classic Shell decided that it was just to much work to keep up and turned over the program to Source Forge late last year. Whether or not they can make a go of it remains to be seen. My installation exploded with 1703 and started morphing into a monster.

Not one issue, although I don't have a lot of the nitty gritty customized, I keep it basic, but a new version of Windows never crippled by experience.

Consider yourself having dodged a few bullets.

Don't really have an issue with the Control Panel either. I Have a cascading Control Panel, just like I did with Windows 95 and the trick Leo Laporte showed on Call For Help.

The question remains as to how long that trick will work and how Microsoft will further lobotomize the control panel in the future.

This still doesn't explain why we should have to seek such tricks and workarounds to get back to something that works and doesn't bury things under a half-dozen different names that may or may not be found using the included search features.

 

[harshness]

But this dummy would like Microsoft to work on their troubleshooter section of windows. Every time I try to use it I always get the same response. I launch it and the gears turn, the wheels spin and after 30-60 seconds the response comes back as: " I'm sorry I can't figure out what is wrong." So next, I go to Google and do a search on the problem in in under 2 seconds, I get a web page that offers 3-5 possible solutions to the problem with step by step instructions and in 99% of the time one of them works. So tell me, why is it that Google knows more about Windows than Microsoft?

Google knows more about pretty much everything than Microsoft does except how to replace Windows.

The problem with Google is that many times it refers you to some horrendous Microsoft site (i.e. social.microsoft.com or technet) and the answers are just as bad (because they are outdated or just plain wrong) as those from the troubleshooter if not worse. The combination of Google and avoiding Microsoft sites has served me much better than just clicking on the first Google response. Social.microsoft.com is perhaps less than 10% likely to get you where you need to be and if it does, it is because someone posted a link to another site.

Why can't Microsoft provide some sort of application that looks up these errors that are presented as obscure hexadecimal codes? Because that isn't what their favored customers want!

Microsoft has created an information vacuum to better support their business partners and they've been wildly successful at that. The goal is to provide opportunities for technicians and consultants who have certifications from all manner of MCSE trainings to serve poor end users such as yourself. This also extends to the people who assemble computers.

Through all of this we have Microsoft insisting that they're necessary. If we chose Linux or something similar, who would we sue if things didn't go our way?