Major help needed. MDU system

[HCI]

I have spent the afternoon in the twilight zone.

This is a job that I wired 6 months ago and only got signal inside of the house for a company that was doing a home automation system for the customer, I did not put the receivers in "the other company did" so I do not know if the system has always been like this or if the issue just arouse in the past 2 weeks when I found out about the problem.

The problem: 9 HDDVR's, 5 of which are HR24's, 4 are HR23's. The 23's are working no problem, the 24's however are not receiving signal on 99c transponder 7 which carries HBOHD. I have revalidated the 24's with no problem, also redownloaded software. I can also take a 23 and put in the place of a 24 and it works NO problem.

The setup "signal from dish to swm splitters: 5lnb ka/ku---150 foot of cable---sonora SEQ409---sonora LAL204a---sonora HRPID1422 polarity locker---16db taps---150 foot of cable---SEQ409---LAL204---12db taps---splitting inside a SWMBOX-32 "this is what you used before the SWM16/32 switches where available I think it is the 2nd generation SWMBOX" 3 total swm 8's--- from one swm 8 to a 2 way sws to 2 receivers; from 2 of the swm 8's to 2 sonora LA141R-T into 2, 4 way sws to 7 receivers.

Along with the above trouble shooting I eliminated the first boosters so now I have the Lnb--300ft cable---SEQ409----LAL204a---polarity locker----splitting to 3 swm8's etc. I thought I might be getting to much signal even with the taps in but nothing changed when I done this.

My signal on 99c is along the ranges of mid 90's on most transponders, two I have high 80's and transponder 7 is the only one that has 0 (on the 23's the signal on transponder 7 is 65)


Please Please help

I will post a few pics in a moment,

 

[HCI]

pics

 

[HCI]

No one???

 

[HCI]

So I have a question, the only difference in the 23's and 24's is the b band converter is inside of the 23's. Even though this is a ka/ku system that is turned into a swim system could that be the problem and the 24's need the converter in the line? Does anyone know if the 23's detect the swm switches does it bypass the b band converter?

 

[kjlued]

No, BBC's would just screw it up more.

I can't tell you for sure, but I would start by pulling the line amplifiers out.

 

[HCI]

Amps have been pulled out and same result, just less db and signal at the receivers. They are not really line amplifiers; they are are to compensate for the lower frequencies.

 

[kjlued]

Problem is most likely the length of your cable run.
There is too much of a voltage drop.
I would really hate to see what the total cable length is if you are 150 feet from switches to dish especially considering this house seems as if it would be huge.

With cable runs that are too long, the system will usually work fine for a while but eventually start burning components up.

Is there an option to move the dish closer?

 

[HCI]

Problem is most likely the length of your cable run.
There is too much of a voltage drop.
I would really hate to see what the total cable length is if you are 150 feet from switches to dish especially considering this house seems as if it would be huge.

With cable runs that are too long, the system will usually work fine for a while but eventually start burning components up.

Is there an option to move the dish closer?

Absolutely no way to move the dish. Even if we moved it closer to the house, from the POE to the SWMBOX is still 150'. The POE is on the north side of the house also so the dish would still have to go 50' to 75' from the dish. Cable is Commscope Quad.

The longest run in the system, from the dish, to the last receiver is around 500 feet. The slope compensator's make up for the loss. The LNB is also not powered by the receivers, but by the polarity locker. Then on the long runs from the SWMBOX to the receivers has the LA141R-T to compensate. This job and cable run is actually a smaller and shorter compared to what I have done. I have the basically the exact same setup in a local University sporting complex that has 1150' to 1200' from the dish to last receiver in the system, This system has been installed for around 2 years without any issues and has a total of 32 receivers with 48 total tuners counting the DVR's. The cable in that system is Plenum also which has a higher loss. The only difference is the HR24's. The other system has all 23's.

I have used the 24's with the SWM32 and had no problems. This is the only system I have used them with the SWMBOX's

Sonora really has some good solutions for situations like this. Check out the pdf's I posted. Page 3 is the setup.

 

[kjlued]

Yeah, I have done some pretty long runs my self where there was almost 1000 feet from dish to last receiver.
However, it was not SWM and it was long before the 24 series.

I know it can be done I know of a high rise in Atlanta with over 700 receivers off a single SWM dish.
However, I don't know what needs to be done and how much cable is between each expander.
All I can do is bounce info off you on this.
It really sounds as if you know your stuff with this and you probably didn't do anything wrong, it is just for some reason the HR24 does not agree with it.

Can you take one of the HR24's with you and place it on a basic SWM system?
This will tell you if the problem is permanent in the receiver.
If it is, you could have already fixed the issue and don't even know it.

If it is permanent then you will start by replacing the receivers then you will have to figure out why it happened on all the 24's and only on the 24's.

 

[HCI]

Yeah, I have done some pretty long runs my self where there was almost 1000 feet from dish to last receiver.
However, it was not SWM and it was long before the 24 series.

I know it can be done I know of a high rise in Atlanta with over 700 receivers off a single SWM dish.
However, I don't know what needs to be done and how much cable is between each expander.
All I can do is bounce info off you on this.
It really sounds as if you know your stuff with this and you probably didn't do anything wrong, it is just for some reason the HR24 does not agree with it.

Can you take one of the HR24's with you and place it on a basic SWM system?
This will tell you if the problem is permanent in the receiver.
If it is, you could have already fixed the issue and don't even know it.

If it is permanent then you will start by replacing the receivers then you will have to figure out why it happened on all the 24's and only on the 24's.

I did think to myself that all 5 of the 24's could be bad. Like I said I wired the house in about mid June and the receivers where put in about mid October. I do not know if the 24's always had the problem or not. As I said earlier also I can take a 23 and put on the line that has the 24 and the 23 does work fine. This one has just boggled my mind that only 1 transponder on the entire system does not have signal. I have even talked to Lab techs at P10 and they have not clue. I am suppose to go back out in a couple of weeks and I will post any results. I have about 3 solid ideas and if non of them work well..............

 

[HCI]

Can you still order HR 23's??? If so at a last resort I can replace all the 24's with 23's

 

[Claude Greiner]

Start at your distribution point and see if you can take one of the HR 24's and see it it works properly when connected up within a few feet of the splitter. If that doesn't work, then hook up the receiver before the switches.

I think the issue is the Sonora equipment, as everytime I have used it in an MDU situation its never worked right. I always end up calling Spaun and what they sell me works right the first time.

It might cost some money, but I would see if Spaun has anything.

 

[kjlued]

HR23's are still available as referbs but unfortunately there is no way to guarantee models through D*.
It also seems all the ones on Ebay are used and you are just asking for headaches with that as getting them placed on a new account will involve getting new access cars (last time I checked $20 ea) and other various headaches. Also, I doubt anyone in a $60 mil house will want used receivers.

A single transponder going out although odd and even more so that it has happened to multiple receivers but not others is even more odd.
Unfortunately, I honestly don't think figuring it out will happen. You may be limited to just replacing the receivers and crossing you fingers for the next year.

 

[Professor]

Hello Sir,

There has been a recall on the H24 700 series receivers stating they should not be deployed in MDU> That fact that you can put an H23 in place of the 24 and have it work.... PROVES your system as far as the Sonora backbone is concerned. I'm very experienced in the Sonora product line, deployment, designs, product knowledge etc. Sonora equipment is the best in the industry bar none! spaun equipment is dead and being removed from buildings everyday along with NAS...IT DOES NOT WORK!!! If you have any questions or you need further information, PLEASE email me direct at Johnathans24@gmail.com.

OR BETTER YET: Anytime I have an issue I go straight to the manufacturer for the most accurate information. Sonora Design has unparalleled technical support!
They support all their systems before, during and after every installation. ( even if you bought the equipment somewhere else...)


Sonora Design Associates
4483 McGrath Street, #102
Ventura CA 93003
805-644-8913
805-644-8862 FAX
Sonora Design Digital DBS & ATSC TV Distribution

Commercial/TUTORIALS
http://www.sonoradesign.com/commercial/tutorials.php




Begin forwarded message:
**********************************************************************************************************
From: DIRECTV DEALER COMMUNICATIONS
Date: January 10, 2011 8:35:23 PM EST
Subject: MDU EFLASH: H24-700 RECEIVER TECHNICAL ISSUES


DIRECTV has discovered a technical problem with the H24-700 HD receivers. After a brief period of normal operation, some receivers display a grey screen. Resetting the receiver will only restore video service temporarily. If your customers report this issue, DIRECTV recommends replacing the receiver.

Please swap out defective receivers only. Do not replace receivers that are working properly.

To replace an activated H24-700 receiver:

Access DWS to swap the H24-700 receiver with an H24-100 receiver from your inventory
DWS>>Customer Eligibility Tab>> Retail Service Call Sub-tab
To avoid sending the customer another H24-700 receiver, Do not use the DIRECTV drop ship option
Customers will be shipped a receiver recovery box in order to return the H24-700 receiver(s) to DIRECTV. Please remind them to do so or they will incur a non return fee.


Only orders placed through DWS will be compensated
Please install H24-100 receivers in place of the H24-700 receivers until further notice. To swap your existing inventory of H24-700 receivers with H24-100 receivers, contact your distributor.

Thank you,
DIRECTV

 

[HCI]

Thank you so much. I think this is the answer I am looking for.

Hello Sir,

There has been a recall on the H24 700 series receivers stating they should not be deployed in MDU> That fact that you can put an H23 in place of the 24 and have it work.... PROVES your system as far as the Sonora backbone is concerned. I'm very experienced in the Sonora product line, deployment, designs, product knowledge etc. Sonora equipment is the best in the industry bar none! spaun equipment is dead and being removed from buildings everyday along with NAS...IT DOES NOT WORK!!! If you have any questions or you need further information, PLEASE email me direct at Johnathans24@gmail.com.

OR BETTER YET: Anytime I have an issue I go straight to the manufacturer for the most accurate information. Sonora Design has unparalleled technical support!
They support all their systems before, during and after every installation. ( even if you bought the equipment somewhere else...)


Sonora Design Associates
4483 McGrath Street, #102
Ventura CA 93003
805-644-8913
805-644-8862 FAX
Sonora Design Digital DBS & ATSC TV Distribution

Commercial/TUTORIALS
Sonora - Tutorials




Begin forwarded message:
**********************************************************************************************************
From: DIRECTV DEALER COMMUNICATIONS
Date: January 10, 2011 8:35:23 PM EST
Subject: MDU EFLASH: H24-700 RECEIVER TECHNICAL ISSUES


DIRECTV has discovered a technical problem with the H24-700 HD receivers. After a brief period of normal operation, some receivers display a grey screen. Resetting the receiver will only restore video service temporarily. If your customers report this issue, DIRECTV recommends replacing the receiver.

Please swap out defective receivers only. Do not replace receivers that are working properly.

To replace an activated H24-700 receiver:

Access DWS to swap the H24-700 receiver with an H24-100 receiver from your inventory
DWS>>Customer Eligibility Tab>> Retail Service Call Sub-tab
To avoid sending the customer another H24-700 receiver, Do not use the DIRECTV drop ship option
Customers will be shipped a receiver recovery box in order to return the H24-700 receiver(s) to DIRECTV. Please remind them to do so or they will incur a non return fee.


Only orders placed through DWS will be compensated
Please install H24-100 receivers in place of the H24-700 receivers until further notice. To swap your existing inventory of H24-700 receivers with H24-100 receivers, contact your distributor.

Thank you,
DIRECTV