LZ-404 Multi-Switch Possibilities?

Status
Please reply by conversation.

linuxman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Jul 16, 2006
3,903
16
North West of St. Louis, MO
Hey Guys,

I picked up this little jewel today, and I need a little help brainstorming on what the possibilities are in using this switch.

It is a cascading 4x4 multiswitch. No manual or instructions, just what is on the switch. I understand that it will pass-thru diseqc commands and will cascade 22Khz signals.

Maybe Iceberg, UpdateLee, and some of the others with massive switch experience can help me out a little.

Here are a couple of pictures:

lz404-1.jpg lz404-2.jpg

Thanks for brain-storming with me.

Fred
 
looks like it will accept 2 LNB's and can output 4 receivers...so a normal 4x4 multiswitch...but has a cascadable option to add ANOTHER 4x4 multiswitch to it for 8 outputs :)
 
but has a cascadable option to add ANOTHER 4x4 multiswitch to it for 8 outputs
Hi Iceberg,

That's the part I don't understand.

Is it to cascade to another 4x4 multiswitch for more outputs, or to cascade to another 22khz switch for adding more LNBs?
 
It'll cascade to another 4X4 so that you can have 8 outputs or 12 outputs if you go to a 3rd. Normally these things won't cascade through 2 or 3 without having a powered switch in there though.
 
It'll cascade to another 4X4 so that you can have 8 outputs or 12 outputs if you go to a 3rd. Normally these things won't cascade through 2 or 3 without having a powered switch in there though.
OK!

Well, the cascade part won't do me a lot of good, I don't have that many receivers, but I think the 4x4 part using two LNBFs will come in pretty handy. :)

I'll have to hook it up and give it a try.
 
yeah all that does is allows you to add another multiswitch to the existing 2 LNB's you already have set up on the first switch
 
Ok, I have another question about the switch shown above.

I have been told it is an Ecoda type switch capable of passing diseqc commands.

Could I replace my standard Ecoda 22Khz switch LNBA 22Khz on LNBB 22Khz off with this switch using port 13V/22Khz on as LNBA and 13V/22Khz off as LNBB?

Or is that not possible with this switch since it is also a voltage switcher?

Does the standard Ecoda switch generate any voltage? Or just turn on the 22Khz?

If it is possible, I thought about replacing my standard Ecoda with this one and then be able to hook up all my receivers to this switch to take advantage of all the stationary LNBFs.

Thanks in advance for your answers.
 
I also thought of this possibility.

Will this combination work to replace my ecoda 22Khz switches provided that the lz-404 will indeed pass diseqc commands?

Here is a pic of my idea:

404-splitter-diseqc-graph.jpg
 
wont work because in the above pic you cant split the lines to both V & H...here is why

what if receiver A wants port 3 22k off but reciever 2 wants port 4 22k off? Now they just clashed

All that switch is is a fancy schmancy 4x4 switch...2 LNB's in...4 receivers out. The only thing that has it allows you to cascade another switch to it.

I think the ecoda is the only thing that will pass diseqc commands..I tried what you're thinking once where I took 8 dual LNB's and hooked it up as such


5x8 multiswitch 13v side-----diseqc-----LNB1
-------------------------------------LNB2
-------------------------------------LNB3
5x8 multiswitch 18v side-----diseqc-----LNB1
-------------------------------------LNB2
-------------------------------------LNB3
5x8 multiswitch 13v+22k-----diseqc---LNB1

etc

the multiswitch did not pass diseqc commands
 
Thanks Iceberg,

Just hoping I might find a better use for it than just as another multi-switch, even if it "fancy schmancy". :)

At least I am thinking. There are times when I can't seem to stop thinking. :D
 
just thinking about your switch

Linuxman -

Thanks for the call.
To expand a bit on our discussion . . .

What causes so much confusion, is that the rules change between bandstacked and non-bandstacked LNBs.
We're not using those, so that is off the table.

Then, the rules change between a guy who wants to run his 8, 12, 16 LNBs to one receiver (maybe he has a T-90), and the guy who wants to hook his half-dozen LNBs to two or more receivers.


For Single Receiver Setups:
There are certain diseqc switches you can cascade.
So, something like: "rcvr---switch---switch---lnb" may be valid.

You can cascade Ecoda-type 22khz switches with diseqc.
The cool trick for 8 LNBs would be:
"rcvr---22khz On---4input diseqc A---4 LNBs"
" |------22khz Off---4input diseqc B---4 more LNBs"

With the right diseqc switches, I believe I've seen this proposed:
"rcvr---22khz---diseqc---diseqc---LNBs"

In all but the simple cases, most 22khz switches apparently don't pass diseqc tones, so you have to use Ecoda-type switches for fancy switching solutions.


For Multiple Receiver Setups:
LNBs need two outputs unless you are getting fancy and only watching one polarity.
(remember, we're not doing bandstacking, here)

Generally speaking , each 2-output LNB needs to go to a 2 input, multiple-output Multiswitch, to give you lots of copies of the signal for down-stream switches.
In practice, it makes more sense to hook each pair of 2-output LNBs to a 4-input Multiswitch (so long as that does not conflict with the LNBs being or needing to be Universal).
Since mostly we don't need Universal LNB reception, let's leave that out of the equation at this point.

Then, downstream of all the Multiswitch outputs, we could use multiple copies of a multi-input diseqc array to select a particular LNB/polarity for each receiver.
So, you might see an architecture something like:
"rcvr---diseqc---diseqc---multiswitch---lnb"
Such a switching array could probably give you to access to far more LNBs than you'd need, so it's a working solution.

For this sort of a hookup, I don't offhand see a way to exploit a multiswitch that passes diseqc commands upstream.

For a reasonable hookup, you could have receivers connected to 4-input diseq switches, hooked to four 4x4 multiswitches, and handle eight LNBs.
eg: "rcvr---4in diseqc---4x4 multiswitch---2 LNBs"
That would support four receivers.
For more receivers, change the mulltiswitches to 4x6 or 4x8's.
For more LNBs, you need to add LNBs and multiswitches, then increase the diseqc switching array complexity.

Well, that's the traditional approach.
It is my hope that someone reading this, will see a flaw and expose some clever exploit to enhance the art.
Where are our inventors when we need them.?. ;)

Keep in mind that switches attenuate signals.
Even powered switches probably reduce reception quality a bit.
So, you should test before and after any fancy multiple-switch install, to see if you are satisfied.

Sometimes the KISS principle is the winner.
So, don 't make something complicated just because you can.
Often, the simple solution is the most reliable.
 
Last edited:
To use 2 diseqc switches in line you need two things
-a receiver that does Diseqc 1.1
-an UNCOMMITED switch (8x1 is the most common)

Now there are switches that are committed and some are uncommitted. You need one that is uncommitted only (Digiwave makes one). That allows you to plug 4x1 switches off of it for 32 LNB's. Add a ecoda at the beginning and double it for 64 LNB's if so desired.

receiver-----ecoda---uncommitted diseqc----diseqc----lnb
 
Thanks, Ice. - :hatsoff:

And to apply what Iceberg described... for use with multiple receivers, you might do this for 16 LNBs:
"rcvr---uncommited diseqc---multiswitches----LNBs"
or for up to 64 LNBs:
"rcvr---uncommited diseqc---diseqc---multiswitch---LNBs"

You would not be able to use the Ecoda 22khz switch ahead of the diseqc switches, because that would interfere with the operation of the multiswitch.
But, since the multiswitch uses 22khz to select between two LNBs, you still get the benefit and large LNB count.

edit: what I started this post to describe was use of Universal LNBs, then got all sidetracked on the above. :)
If you need to substitute any Universal LNB in the descriptions above, just use it with a 2x4, 2x6, 2x8 switch instead of a 4x...
A universal would take up two LNB positions from your total count.
There are clever ways to get around this limitation, which we could describe when appropriate.
 
My thanks to both of you Guys!!

I think I got it in my head now.

Just trying to think of a way to maximize the the use of the stationary dishes/lnbfs that I already have in place between the three receivers in my den, and the receiver in the living room.

I don't want to go all out yet on un-committed/committed diseqc switches yet because I want to see what the Passion finally ends up supporting. According to the website, it doesn't support diseqc 1.1 and I am always thinking of future possibilities. :)
 
Status
Please reply by conversation.

Trouble with USALS accuracy

MythDora & VP-1020a Woes

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)