Lost Signal in Snow

[SomeDishGuy]

East Arc in mid Nebraska is pitiful, Dish switched us from Western Arc to Eastern, now when a medium cloud/rain comes it goes out every time, never had these problems on Western Arc. Dish is aimed spot on with no obstructions. When the snow starts flying around here and we experience even more outages, we will be forced to reevaluate our provider.
Why is Dish instructing the service guys to switch the Arcs?
Will Dish come back out and switch us back to the West Arc with no hassels or fees?

It's not just the service techs that are being told to change it. The company is doing an arc migration for a lot of customers, where their local channels will only be available on the eastern arc in mid 2015. A lot of folks, for now, are in areas where their locals are available on both arcs. For now.

So no, Dish won't come back out and move you to the western arc, as you would be forced to move back to eastern arc in about 6 months.

Realize, I'm not getting into the WHY the company is moving locals for a lot of people to just the eastern arc. I don't know why...that is above my pay grade. I can just tell you the plan for a lot of people in the midwest is to move them to the eastern arc.

 

[patmurphey]

It is the elevation of Eastern Arc dishes for East coast customers. The dish is angled up more and does not shed wet snow as well as the old 110/119 setups. My 61.5 and 72.7 signals were out most of the afternoon and evening here in NW NJ. My 110 dish signal for the Food Channel never went out.

 

[Lue]

It is the elevation of Eastern Arc dishes for East coast customers. The dish is angled up more and does not shed wet snow as well as the old 110/119 setups. My 61.5 and 72.7 signals were out most of the afternoon and evening here in NW NJ. My 110 dish signal for the Food Channel never went out.

I have yet to experience snow here in the midwest this season, with the forced migration to the Eastern Arc here in the midwest, the loss of service due to rain clouds is unacceptable already, Hate to even think about the thick snow clouds coming soon to the area. I am with Tampa8 on this issue, it is the cloud thickness/density that is causing the loss of signal , I loose signal when the cloud is moving in, even before the rain starts. Dish will loose customers over this issue. They need to get out in front of this problem. Was on the Western Arc previously, It was rare to loose signal, all that good reception is out the window now.

 

[patmurphey]

Slightly decreased snow shedding is an issue, but the EA satellites at a higher angle actually reduce the chance of rain fade. None of the losses are due to the "clouds" but are caused by columns of precipitation. Also, the Dish signal band actually penetrates precipitation slightly better than DirecTV's.

If EA signals are weaker, it might be that the Dish's aim needs to be checked.

 

[Tampa8]

Slightly decreased snow shedding is an issue, but the EA satellites at a higher angle actually reduce the chance of rain fade. None of the losses are due to the "clouds" but are caused by columns of precipitation. Also, the Dish signal band actually penetrates precipitation slightly better than DirecTV's.

If EA signals are weaker, it might be that the Dish's aim needs to be checked.

EA signals are going to be "weaker" meaning will show lower numbers than the WA so wouldn't necessarily mean the dish needs to be aligned. You directly compaare the numbers from one ARC to the other.
I don't know about a higher angle reducing the rain fade. It didn't in Florida that's for sure and is why WA is recommended, and it doesn't in CT where I can directly compare the two.

 

[dwarren2]

When I was swirched to the earc, the instqller said the numbers would be lower, but since it's digital it wouldn't make q difference.

 

[Lue]

When I was swirched to the earc, the instqller said the numbers would be lower, but since it's digital it wouldn't make q difference.

I was told the same, but results where not good at all, I see you are located in NY, midwest seems to be the worst. I am getting a 51 signal strength, you?

 

[dwarren2]

Right now I'm out of town so I can't check the signal. It takes a heavy rain storm for me to loose signal. Only heavy wet snow gives me problems. Since I'm further north (near Lake Ontario) my dish is at a steeper angle. So accumulated snow is more likely to slide off.

 

[MikeD-C05]

IF you have an eastern arc dish your signals need to be 50 or higher to guarantee that your signal will be good. If you have western arc the signals are in the 70 or higher to get the same signal strengths. I've always wondered if it is because eastern arc is all mpeg 4 and western is both mpeg 4 and mpeg 2. But the change in sat strengths happened quite a while back ,at least by 08 ,when I got my first 1.0004 sat dish that I installed myself.

 

[TheKrell]

You can't compare the QPSK transponders on WA to any of the 8PSK transponders on either arc. The so-called signal strength indicator is actually more like an inverse digital error rate before correction. Because the FEC is larger for 8PSK, it can correct for those extra errors, the overall result of which is that these two modulation schemes come out about the same as far as rain fade is concerned.

 

[MikeD-C05]

You can't compare the QPSK transponders on WA to any of the 8PSK transponders on either arc. The so-called signal strength indicator is actually more like an inverse digital error rate before correction. Because the FEC is larger for 8PSK, it can correct for those extra errors, the overall result of which is that these two modulation schemes come out about the same as far as rain fade is concerned.

But the signal strengths on western arc sats 110/119 come in a bit higher in strengths than the eastern arc sats 72.7/61.5. The 77 sat comes in much higher in signal strengths now than they did in 08 . They are now in the 70s and higher like 110/119 sats on western arc. The main point is that even though there may not be a big difference the minimum signal strengths that are good for keeping a signal are lower on the eastern arc sats at around 50 or higher, which is about 20 points lower than western arc sats.

 

[david_jr]

Where are you located?
Eastern Arc seems to work better in some regions and not work so well in others.

I am in the extreme northwest corner of Massachusetts close to the NY and VT borders. If you are losing signal when it's cloudy I would suggest you have either an alignment problem, or you have something blocking your signal. When my EA dish was first installed the installer put it where the look out was facing a large tree. He told me that it was looking over the tree. After that I had the same problem that you're having where my signal would go out when it was cloudy or light rain rather than a heavy storm. I called for service and another tech came out and looked at the dish and said the tree was a problem. He moved it to where it had a clearer line of site and that problem went away. Heavy wet snow is a problem though. I have had 18 inches of fluffy snow not cause an outage, but just an inch of the heavy wet stuff and it goes out. Tough for us because it requires us to climb a ladder onto the roof and climb up to the dish which is about 30 feet off the ground. I will have to look into a heating system that we can turn on when the dish ices up rather than climb up there to clean it off. Problem is I don't usually think about it in the spring, summer or fall and then when winter hits it is too late. Maybe next year.

 

[Lue]

I am in the extreme northwest corner of Massachusetts close to the NY and VT borders. If you are losing signal when it's cloudy I would suggest you have either an alignment problem, or you have something blocking your signal. When my EA dish was first installed the installer put it where the look out was facing a large tree. He told me that it was looking over the tree. After that I had the same problem that you're having where my signal would go out when it was cloudy or light rain rather than a heavy storm. I called for service and another tech came out and looked at the dish and said the tree was a problem. He moved it to where it had a clearer line of site and that problem went away. Heavy wet snow is a problem though. I have had 18 inches of fluffy snow not cause an outage, but just an inch of the heavy wet stuff and it goes out. Tough for us because it requires us to climb a ladder onto the roof and climb up to the dish which is about 30 feet off the ground. I will have to look into a heating system that we can turn on when the dish ices up rather than climb up there to clean it off. Problem is I don't usually think about it in the spring, summer or fall and then when winter hits it is too late. Maybe next year.

What is your signal strength? I have a clear line of sight, dish tuned the antenna, I am getting 51 on the strength meter.

 

[bobt]

Is there anything you can use to keep snow from sticking to the dish? Last week I had a couple inches built up and I lost everything but the locals. After I swept it off it was fine. I was thinking something like PAM or WD-40 or ???

Bob

 

[ChadT41]

I have heard that RAIN-X is a good one as well.

 

[acostapimps]

I'm not sure about WD40 but PAM would stick I would assume
any windshield wiper fluid like RAIN-X would work, or dish heater
Depending on the elevation a super soaker is good as well.

 

[ERSanders]

I just posted this... it may help: http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/fed-up-with-easter-arc-snow-accumulation.344420/

 

[az99]

Sweeping the dish out is fine for some but mine is on the roof peak that is up about 30'. I have had dish out 3 times to fix the cloud and rain fade. I have even setup a portable dish in the driveway to test signal strength. What they set it at is as good as it gets.
I lose signal before it rains and during the rain. Whoever said the dish EA signal is stronger than DTV has not tested it here. It was a very rare occasion that the signal was lost in rain and it took a lot of snow in the DTV dish to lose signal as it usually fell out. With the EA aiming so straight up there is little chance of it sliding out.

 

[MR2NR]

In my experience the snow affects the dish most when it humps up and ruins the concave shape of the reflector. But I have been amazed at the amount of service calls I have been sent out to where the dish is on a pole and never cleaned off lol. They make warmers but as stated before warm water in a water gun or if you can get to it dumping a bucket of warm water is the best solution. NEVER go out and beat on the dish!!! NEVER shoot your dish with a gun!! (lol at that moron!) I am on EA and the dish is on the highest part of the roof. When it snows enough around me to knock out signal I have enough on DVR to last me until it melts .

 

[ChadT41]

Lol. You just reminded me of one customer in NY, who wanted me to send a technician to his house, to sit there all night and brush snow off the dish. I lost my customer service bearing and laughed on that call and asked him if he was serious. Turns out, he was.